[NFP] The New Eureka System

[Lily_Lancer]

I just noticed that the eureka/inspiration system also changed in NFP.

Now you get 40% of the current cost needed when you trigger a eureka/inspiration, instead of 40% of base cost (which once applied in R & F).

This means if you trigger a eureka of a more advanced era tech/civic, you get 48%, if you trigger a era-behind tech/civic, you get 32%.

For example, defense tactics cost 175 culture, it cost 210 when you're in ancient era, if you trigger its eureka you get 210*0.4=84 culture, and when you advanced into classical era, you only have to spend 91 extra culture to research it.

Imagine you're using China, and you pick the eureka +10% golden age dedication that makes your eureka as powerful as 60%, then if you trigger an advanced-era eureka/inspiration, you get 72% of its base cost. When you advanced into that era you only have to spend 28% of the cost to complete it. When you advanced into a more advanced era you only have to spend 8% of the cost.

The main idea of the NFP eureka/inspiration system is that ”eureka/inspirations triggered ahead of era is more powerful".

 

[The Highwayman]

That's very interesting. In other words it really pays to be ahead of the game with eurekas and inspirations.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

thanks a lot for the post @Lily_Lancer I hope to see more content like that from you in the future. if it actually works like that it is a huge change and one I really, really like. great job firaxis, that is actually a cool new mechanic to play around with. I often get Mercenaries and Machinery Eurekah like 40 turns before I get the tech.

 

[Pietato]

That explains the weird varying euerkas I was seeing. Cheers.

 

[Vandlys]

@Lily_Lancer That's very good find! Thank you. Strange that they left something so important out of the patch notes. Although, Firaxis is not known for putting its formulae in the foreground unfortunately : /

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

If that's really the case I think that's a subtle but really smart change, especially since they've fixed the later era tech base costs. I often stop thinking about eurekas in the mid to late game, looks like it is time to change that. More of this please Firaxis!

 

[acluewithout]

Seems like a pretty bad change to me.

If you tech ahead of the era, you're meant to pay more science and culture. This sort of undercuts that, because now you can offset that where you trigger the Eureka well ahead of time (e.g. be target of declaration of war, have 8 units etc.).

I'm not sure this is actually a deliberate change. It might just be a product of tweaking the +/-% for researching ahead or behind the current era.

Eras go too fast already. Anything that speeds up research is really not helping that.

 

[jbavon]

Will this be a good or bad change for the AI?

My experience is that the AI usually beelines both culture and science and is far ahead in eras. So they'll often end up getting a lower exchange for their eureka than a player who does a bit on both the top and bottom of the tech/culture trees.

So this should hamper the AI even further? Any thoughts on this?

 

[yung.carl.jung]

My experience is that the AI usually beelines both culture and science and is far ahead in eras.

My experience is the polar opposite. Though you might be correct on them beelining. The AI also likely gets many Eurekahs/Inspos much too early, so this change does benefit them in that regard. All in all it likely will not change anything meaningfully for the AI.

Eras go too fast already. Anything that speeds up research is really not helping that.

Eras only really go by fast if you play on Emperor+ on lower difficulties eras often take the maximum possible amount of time. So you have a choice of playing a lower difficulty / focussing less on science /playing a slower game speed if you do want slower research.

 

[AntSou]

So you have a choice of playing a lower difficulty / focussing less on science /playing a slower game speed if you do want slower research.

I don't think this is a solution. The game just needs better pacing on standard speed. They've already done it in the past so no reason they can't tweak it further.

Especially the Industrial age. It just seems to fly by. Probably due to Universities and Factories, though I'm not sure. Modern feels fine to me.
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Regarding the topic, this sounds like a substantial change. If it were intentional, I find it odd they would make no mention of it in the patch notes.

 

[pokiehl]

I don't think this is new per se. It's a function of them fixing the era gating system. After R&F but prior to GS eurekas worked the same way I'm pretty sure.

 

[Infixo]

The eurekas/inspirations have NOT changed in NFP. They've always given a percentage of the total cost of a tech/civic and they still work this way. What changed is that now the total cost may vary +20%/-20% during the game since the gating bug has been fixed as @pokiehl mentioned above.

For example, defense tactics cost 175 culture, it cost 210 when you're in ancient era, if you trigger its eureka you get 210*0.4=84 culture, and when you advanced into classical era, you only have to spend 91 extra culture to research it.

The total cost changes when the WORLD era changes, not your Civ's only. That is actally pretty clever because when you really wanna be ahead of the world then you will ALWAYS pay 20% extra and most of the time prevents such "clever techniques" as you described.

This means if you trigger a eureka of a more advanced era tech/civic, you get 48%, if you trigger a era-behind tech/civic, you get 32%.

Well, a bit misleading math, but I get what you are trying to say. However, this will only happen if you a) trigger a eureka from an era ahead b) wait for the world to advance to this era c) then research it. I'd say this is pretty gimmicky but probably some people will try it.

 

[AntSou]

However, this will only happen if you a) trigger a eureka from an era ahead b) wait for the world to advance to this era c) then research it. I'd say this is pretty gimmicky but probably some people will try it.

It's not that unusual to trigger eurekas well in advance though. I've been doing this consistently without even trying or being aware of.

 

[Equilin]

It's not that unusual to trigger eurekas well in advance though. I've been doing this consistently without even trying or being aware of.

the catch is the extra bonus is only in a case where you hold off researching it until the world era advances

 

[Lily_Lancer]

The eurekas/inspirations have NOT changed in NFP. They've always given a percentage of the total cost of a tech/civic and they still work this way. What changed is that now the total cost may vary +20%/-20% during the game since the gating bug has been fixed as @pokiehl mentioned above.

The total cost changes when the WORLD era changes, not your Civ's only. That is actally pretty clever because when you really wanna be ahead of the world then you will ALWAYS pay 20% extra and most of the time prevents such "clever techniques" as you described.

Well, a bit misleading math, but I get what you are trying to say. However, this will only happen if you a) trigger a eureka from an era ahead b) wait for the world to advance to this era c) then research it. I'd say this is pretty gimmicky but probably some people will try it.

In R & F you always get 40% of the base cost from eureka/inspirations, despite your era. If you're researching an ahead-of-era tech you need to pay 80% of its base cost, if you're researching a behind-of-era tech you only need to pay 40% of its base cost.