The New Magic System

[Tarquelne]

now that is a cool idea

I think some sort of sacrifice would be a lot more appropriate. Maybe a captured Animal unit. The arena battle seems like a very Dov. kind of thing. Or maybe the Shamans can go on a "Spirit Quest" (spell) that, among it's many possible effects, often grants mana.

Basically, something that connects with their culture better than Necromancy of the not-just-speaking-with-the-dead type.

(I'd considered +mana for Scion Necromancers, btw, but I think what they already get is plenty.)

OTOH, a generally available ritual - perhaps at Necromancy - converting unit death (and population loss?) to mana sounds like a shoe-in to me.

 

[N0Face]

I have idea for religious ritual. It should cost 1 (to take city for turn), population for bad religions(sacrifice) and gold for good religions(holiday). Ritual will give Faith. It can be limited for use only in Holy cities or/and big cities.

 

[wapamingo]

For Doviello: Instead of giving them more, make their mana cost cheaper. Put it as part of the Palace they get, an aura maybe called "Spirit Connection" that reduces mana cost by 50% or whatever is appropriate. Would this be possible?

 

[Lord Katana]

For those familiar with age of mythology, the norse had the ability to gather favor (the games form of mana) through fighting. My own experience with that is that it can be abused by building a lot of units and on the other hand if you are not in a position to fight, you dont get the mana to build the units you need to fight. Hence you start a war to gear up for a war... that is if you survive the first war

my point... balancing mana though combat is very tricky. I'd rather see a form of sacrifice or other mechanic that is controllable by the civ themselves.

But it would be great to differentiate as much between races how they get their mana. Perhaps sacrificing pop for the Calabim? Desert ritual for the Malakim? Mana being provided by seafood for the Lanun? Armageddon counter for the Sheaim or Hyborim?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Age of mythology, that was some kickass RTS yeah

 

[tesb]

For those familiar with age of mythology, the norse had the ability to gather favor (the games form of mana) through fighting. My own experience with that is that it can be abused by building a lot of units and on the other hand if you are not in a position to fight, you dont get the mana to build the units you need to fight. Hence you start a war to gear up for a war... that is if you survive the first war

my point... balancing mana though combat is very tricky. I'd rather see a form of sacrifice or other mechanic that is controllable by the civ themselves.

But it would be great to differentiate as much between races how they get their mana. Perhaps sacrificing pop for the Calabim? Desert ritual for the Malakim? Mana being provided by seafood for the Lanun? Armageddon counter for the Sheaim or Hyborim?

the reason why the age of mythology system did not worked well was, because fighting was the only way to gain favor as the norths. i just propose that aggressive civilizations like the clan of embers and the doviello only get a small amount of mana via buildings (compared to regular civs) but have the possibility to also gain mana through combat.

i will rework the sheaim a bit (tweaking the demonic enclave/summoning rites).

 

[Tarquelne]

i just propose that aggressive civilizations like the clan of embers and the doviello only get a small amount of mana via buildings (compared to regular civs) but have the possibility to also gain mana through combat.

A "possibility" sounds good. I wouldn't want them to get mana from killing just because it's cool and convenient.

How about a Ritual tied to the appropriate deity/angel of murder or war? After it you get mana from killing... and maybe a mana penalty if you don't kill? Something like that. It could also require the civ to be Evil. Or at least Tetchy.

 

[DonQuigleone]

Also some civs should be better at gathering Mana anyway. Doviello or CoE would focus on combat rather then magic. Same goes for Kazad too (who could only cast tier one spells usually, but made up fo it with other stuff)

 

[Tarquelne]

Also some civs should be better at gathering Mana anyway. Doviello or CoE would focus on combat rather then magic. Same goes for Kazad too (who could only cast tier one spells usually, but made up fo it with other stuff)

I agree so much so that I'll go further and say the new magic system *should* shift game-balance toward magic-heavy civs. Not necessarily because of the mana-gathering issue, but more options should lead to more strength if those options are used wisely. And a magic-heavy civ will be able to make more out of the new options.

But I don't see this as a problem so much as it is an opportunity to add something to the magic-lite civs.

Some common magic resistance for the dwarves, perhaps? Cliche, I know, but I find it appealing.

An easy/cheap series of animal summoning rituals for Dov? Still magic, but I think it fit and "easy/cheap" provides the balance-boost.

Still looking at magic, Clan could get some flame-based combatauras? Though the combataura doesn't necessarily have to be from magic. If the Clan had units who'd mastered orc-dialect war-cries with stackable effects they'd have a choral colloquial coloratura combataura.

There's always new units, promos, etc. etc. for the less-magical civs, and since the focus is already away from magic I think they're likely the better option.

Are Flash Gitz currently included for the Orcs?
Wait, wrong game... won't work.

 

[Valkrionn]

I'm planning a series of "Runecaster" units for the Khazad, functioning rather like your idea for the Clan.

And something like the flash gitz would fit a civ we're developing for RifE.....

 

[Calavente]

A "possibility" sounds good. I wouldn't want them to get mana from killing just because it's cool and convenient.

How about a Ritual tied to the appropriate deity/angel of murder or war? After it you get mana from killing... and maybe a mana penalty if you don't kill? Something like that. It could also require the civ to be Evil. Or at least Tetchy.

Why not have High level Doviello unit being "sacrificable" to become a mana node on tile ?
if mana nodes gives some "mana" points... it could work as a "favour" toward more mana and gained by killing.
Or high level doviello units can get a promotion that gives mana toward civ + reduces defense strength or something.

 

[Sephi]

That would be quite strong. I set it so that Doviello gain some Mana whenever a Challenge is issued between Doviello Units.

 

[Valkrionn]

That's actually a good solution. Makes the challenge useful, and makes the Doviello interesting.

 

[Calavente]

but what if you are in a full-fledged war and thus can't afford to use many units for "challenge".
when you may need mana the most you might not be able to produce some.


My propositions may be dumb but they're not "too strong". it's a matter of balance : what level needed for either : mana-generating promotion or possibility to become a mana node.
for the promotion it can be linked with a possibility of being enraged :
favor (mana-generation) comes to battle spirited units. risk of losing said unit in an unwanted fight.
(or you put those mana-producing units on an island to never lose them, but you can't use them in fight : balance effect).

 

[Tarquelne]

but what if you are in a full-fledged war and thus can't afford to use many units for "challenge".
when you may need mana the most you might not be able to produce some.

I think that sounds like an interesting choice the Dov. player may be faced with.

 

[Calavente]

If you see it like that, why not.

But Dov were not supposed to be limited in magiacal offense. Only Khazad were.
With such an way of gaining mana, Dov becom limited in magical power. Maybe you'll have to take it into account while balancing the whole mechanisms and the DoV civ.

 

[Folket]

Either that or the Doviello can build mana which no other civ enabling the player to either become more or less powerful in magic dependent of his strategi.

 

[Calavente]

not totally true as this way of gaining mana is to compensate for not having libraries, alchemy labs, (mage guild? - elder council?)
thus as a base they have less mana.
tis systems tries to compensate for it.
It can make them as powerful as other civs but by sacrfiing many units through "challenge" but AFAIK not make them more powerful

 

[Folket]

Why would it not allow them to sacrifice enough units to get more mana then other civs?

 

[Calavente]

well.. it depends on the exchange rate of unit lost hammers versus mana gained compared to a fixed Xmana/turn per library(or elder or alchemy lab) per city .