The Next World SuperPower

[Morgasshk]

Now MY turn to set things straight...

Look, Guys, Easily Australia is the Biggest and Toughest country around... We have the best planes, best intelligence, best special forces, most money, most guns, most missiles....

****, we just being nice to all the other countries because we been in a good mood for the last 150 or so years... but watch out, we could turn nasty!

Hehe!!! Who tha fukk am I kidding! You guys suck goats ballz! Who the hell cares if this tank has this little bit better gun or if this Spy plane was designed by this person and was actually built by this company.... What a waste of time!

Fark this war talking crap... Bin laden's on the run and if he isn't he bloody well should be... This country marketing is ridiculous... every person in these forums has to have a certain amount of pride in his country and it's just going to start a stupid trend of telling everyone what they have "which is soooo good"

Get over it!


Morgasshk...

 

[redtom]

Originally posted by IceBlaZe
lol redtom, your government slaughtered people in ireland

We did until we learnt to compromise, like the ****ing Good Friday Agreement and the peaceful partition of Ireland, idiot.

 

[Fayadi]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
Good thing Mao Zedong saved China from the evil Chiang Kai-shek...

Do you really, believe, Fayadi, that the Communists brought the economic power to China?

No.Of course I dont believe,Hong Kong which were not controlled by the communists happened to be one of the world's best cities!
Both leaders are evil anyway

Australia?Singapore (with population of 70+%Chinese)had a stronger dollar than Ausie dollar just about last year.Asian countries are growing stronger (except for Japan due to recession?)while West is declining.This is no offense but facts.
Sorry to say that East Asia countries are richer than Israel.
Israel is just like Soviet Union,they spend all their moneys to build weapons instead of using it to do something more constructive to prosper the country

 

[amadeus]

There needs to be another revolution in China, overthrowing the CCP...

Sadly, as beautiful a country as China, they have a horrible human rights record since Mao Zedong's Communist Revolution in 1949...

 

[Anielewicz]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
There needs to be another revolution in China, overthrowing the CCP...

Sadly, as beautiful a country as China, they have a horrible human rights record since Mao Zedong's Communist Revolution in 1949...

Not like the US has a clean human rights record. Jeebus...

 

[Fayadi]

Not all China,How bout Hong Kong which a city is safer ,cleaner than US cities?Hong Kong entertainment center are way cooler than New York's.I have been to both cities before.You feel safe there.Hong Kong's bus for daily transport are way better than US.
You feel safe in these cities not in US where lots of tourists are afraid to go now.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Why would terrorists bother China? China has never done anything to offend terrorists. China has never exalted itself through achievement, thereby making itself a target for terror, like the US has.

Terrorists attack America because America has power, money, a high standard of living, and worst of all, a free society. Americans grow fat on the ample food that their economy produces, and give away or sell millions of tons of food to poor countries, thereby growing even richer. It is a slap in the face to dictators and their ilk worldwide.

America puts the lie to all the things these evil people do and say to acquire and stay in power. This cannot be allowed to happen. So the dictators stir up terrorists, with speeches and sermons, and cry 'Death to America!', and sic the disgruntled people their own policies have created upon the US, to distract them from thoughts of revolution.

China's policies are parallel to those of these other evil men. China's people have been oppressed for so many centuries, that they have come to need that oppression, and only revolt when it is coupled with corruption, and then only to replace their corrupt oppressors with fresh new oppressors. China is no threat to the evil in this world. China is, or will be, it's last safe haven.

Damn, I never thought of it that way before. Now I'm getting nervous.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2
Why would terrorists bother China? China has never done anything to offend terrorists. China has never exalted itself through achievement, thereby making itself a target for terror, like the US has.

FL2

Your comment about China are ridiculous.

China has exalted itself through 5000 years of civilisation,
when North America's current occupants ancestors were still lice-riddled thugs living in Europe.

The muslims in southern China's border are conducting a reign of terror attacks right now. Don't you read the news outside North America?

I am 100% behind China's struggle with these chaotic muslims who seek to attack innocent citizens.

An the reason is not money or power (outwardly). The reason is something you hold close to your heart...

Religion.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Nothing of the sort has made either the papers, or my AOL news ticker. What is your source?

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2
Nothing of the sort has made either the papers, or my AOL news ticker. What is your source?

Check it out Fearless one:

www.rferl.org/nca/features/2001/10/18102001074432.asp

And before your inevitable, denouncing post,
This again is not MY website, go and whine at the journalist that wrote it...

 

[kobayashi]

Fayadi,

Sometimes you must draw a line between national pride and being realistic.

China is a has been also ran. When China can field 12 carrier battle groups you can come back to this thread and boast about it. If china irritates the US anymore, it will just bankrupt you like it did the USSR. In case you haven't figured it out thats what pulling out of the ABM treaty is all about - neutralising China's puny arsenal of ICBMs. Maybe China should build a few hundred missile silos to to match the US and USSR- Oh I forgot, that could cost a few years worth of GDP.

America is already in the process of owning the world and that's what the WTO is all about. Free trade favours whoeverhas the biggest economies of scale and guess who that is? They have already swallowed up huge parts of Asia and they will eat up China as well.

What China should fear is not only weapons like the F-22, it is AOL TIme Warner, it is Microsoft and Walmart.

In Singapore, many of the world's top electronics manufacturing companies, Natsteel Electronics, JIT Hodings and Omni industris no longer belong to Singaporeans - guess who owns them now. Jardine Flemming, once Asia's premier broking empire now belongs to JP Morgan and Chase. When China owns a big chunk of the rest of the world, you can come back to this thread and boast about it.

When China can export a giant chain of fast food restaurants to the US like MacDonalds does worldwide then you can come back to this thread and boast about it.

When China use its own brand of soda and outsell coca-cola then you can come back to this thread and boast about it.

When China had figured out how to send people to the moon then you can come back to this thread and boast about it.

I am getting tired from typing - not running out of examples so I think I'll stop here.


p.s. I am not Amrican. I am just stating the VERY OBVIOUS.

the only chance the world has to contain US Global Domination rests with the European Union and even they have less than even odds of suceeding.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Moderator Action: I noticed a number of rules violations in this thread, and because of the holidays, I will let them slide, HOWEVER, if I again see trolls like "lol redtom, your government slaughtered people in ireland ", multiple posts by the same poster in succession (At least four by one poster, please learn how to to cut, paste and edit properly ), as well as spam one liners (saw a few of these), ALL of the posters commiting these violations will get a week off to think about not doing it again.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Fayadi is entiltiled to his opinion, and certain economic indicators do show an advancing China, but in real economic terms, namely balence of trade deficits and payments, and import/export indices show this to be an illusion.

As for whose Aircraft is better, US airpower has US aviaonics, meaning US software, which is still decades ahead of anything Russia or the Chiense ever came up with (it's why they are so expensive, BTW), and a given Russian plane may be a few MPH/KM faster, but a US plane will detect and destroy it before the Russian AC is even aware it's engaged, so the point is mute. This is the true lesson of airpower, speed and performance records are a thing for pride, and not service performance. Even at it's worst, in Vietnam, the USAF and US Navy still maintained a 3-1 kill ratio in their favor over Soviet designs.

I also heard it suggested that the F-15 was derived from the Mig-25 Foxbat, a laughable comparison, the Russian fighter was so simple the USA considered it 1950's technology when they examined in in 1975, it's onboard computer was nearly useless (this comes from it's pilot, Balenko, the defector), it's only advantage was flat out speed, but it couldn't outrun Sparrow and Sidewinder missles then, any more then it could now, so another moot point.

India liked Soviet equipment because it was cheap, robust, and easy for them to license build, something the US is not willing to let them do with F/A-18s or other types, but the cash strapped Soviets liked, as the Russians still do.

Ask real pilots which is more dangerous in the air, an ageing F-16 (which can STILL outturn any Soviet designed A/C), or modern Russian or Chinese equipment, and you get the same answer, the Russian/Chinese stuff is good for target practice and running up a score as they are sitting ducks, and little else (outside of looking good at airshows).

This is all fact, but you guys can continue throwing records and pictures around if you like.

 

[IceBlaZe]

Sorry about that one-line spam AoA.
Anyhow, you want facts? fine

FACT: Israel is the only pro-western country in the world that has an effective and operational anti-missile protection.

FACT: USA, India and Turkey are Israel's largest weapon consumers.

FACT: The Merkavah Mk4. tank developed in Israel is the best tank in the world, in all means. Best defense, Best offense, Best Radar. you can read about the 'old' Mk3. In Jane's (www.janes.com), a highly respected defense weekly.

FACT: Israel's army is more modern, more effective and generally better from NATO (I took that from abcnews, you can see that in a few posts earlier).

FACT: Even the 'yom kippur' war, which was the only war we were thought to 'lose' we 'won' (Basically, I dont believe in winning or losing in war).
So, from 1948 we kept struggling for our survival and our army never failed.

FACT: Even USA uses a lot of Israeli-Made missiles, and out missile-guidance system is considered to be the best in the world - and it IS a fact, it is used by USA, India, Turkey.

REALISTIC ASUMPTION: Israel will never be a world superpower, but our weapons and technologies still own.

OPTIMISITIC ASUMPTION: As soon as Israel makes peace with all its neighboors, and someone invents motors that dont use Oil, all the arab countries will depend on its closest neighboor for technology - Israel. (George Orwell wrote about that in one of his Sci-Fi books )

 

[knowltok]

and someone invents motors that dont use Oil

I dream of this day. Hell it can even use oil for lubrication, just not the motivating force. This should be a national mission for about every western country out there. Demonstrate that the engine is reliable and cost effective and you can sell them all over the world.


Opinions on world armed forces:

Don't forget that when evaluating these armies and air forces that this isn't a sand table exercise where equal numbers are put on the map and allowed to fight it out. The battle will likely go to the nation that has the ability to strike at a time and place of their choosing. This is a combination of air superiority and intelligence.

I would raise the possibility that the tank may very well be aproaching the end of its role as the dominant force on the battlefield. I don't say this is a certainty, or that if it will happen it is happening right now, but keep in mind the Battleship. In the navies of the world the Battleship has been replaced by carriers and missle carrying smaller ships, the largest of which would be dwarfed by even the WWI dreadnaughts. Might we not be entering a world where the IFV is sufficient to the task of ground warfare? They are lighter, cheaper, and more versatile. Just a thought to ponder.

As far as armies go, I guess the real question should be India v. Pakistan...

 

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by knowltok


I dream of this day. Hell it can even use oil for lubrication, just not the motivating force. This should be a national mission for about every western country out there. Demonstrate that the engine is reliable and cost effective and you can sell them all over the world.

I think you are missing the point here. Your magic engine has been around for decades. The problem is what you use in place of oil?

Hydrogen is a good example. It can be stored safely in tanks filled with hydrogen adsorbing alloys and the by-product of burning hydrogen is water. If you use hydrogen, where would you get it?. If you use electrolysis which in turn uses oil to generate the electricity - you're back to square one. Try to bypass oil and use solar power, you'll need to cover the entire surface of the earth.

It has also been proven that you can use sunflowerseed oil to power diesel engines. It is much cleaner. The problem is growing enough sunflowerseed to power th world's cars.

 

[Fayadi]

Originally posted by kobayashi
Fayadi,

Sometimes you must draw a line between national pride and being realistic.

China is a has been also ran. When China can field 12 carrier battle groups you can come back to this thread and boast about it. If china irritates the US anymore, it will just bankrupt you like it did the USSR. In case you haven't figured it out thats what pulling out of the ABM treaty is all about - neutralising China's puny arsenal of ICBMs. Maybe China should build a few hundred missile silos to to match the US and USSR- Oh I forgot, that could cost a few years worth of GDP.

America is already in the process of owning the world and that's what the WTO is all about. Free trade favours whoeverhas the biggest economies of scale and guess who that is? They have already swallowed up huge parts of Asia and they will eat up China as well.

What China should fear is not only weapons like the F-22, it is AOL TIme Warner, it is Microsoft and Walmart.

In Singapore, many of the world's top electronics manufacturing companies, Natsteel Electronics, JIT Hodings and Omni industris no longer belong to Singaporeans - guess who owns them now. Jardine Flemming, once Asia's premier broking empire now belongs to JP Morgan and Chase. When China owns a big chunk of the rest of the world, you can come back to this thread and boast about it.

When China can export a giant chain of fast food restaurants to the US like MacDonalds does worldwide then you can come back to this thread and boast about it.

When China use its own brand of soda and outsell coca-cola then you can come back to this thread and boast about it.

When China had figured out how to send people to the moon then you can come back to this thread and boast about it.

I am getting tired from typing - not running out of examples so I think I'll stop here.


p.s. I am not Amrican. I am just stating the VERY OBVIOUS.

the only chance the world has to contain US Global Domination rests with the European Union and even they have less than even odds of suceeding.

You want to talk about western food?
Do you know that many americans now like Asian food (esp Chinese food).I got damn lots of friends in Boston who refuses to eat in western food.I heard from them Asian food there had much a better business that the western food.
I dont know you are Singaporean Chinese or not ,if you are,you should know Chinese food are the best in the world
What I am saying is,Chinese food is as or more famous than those McDonald's,you can find it everywhere.

Ok you say I am boasting?What evidence?If you mind to look back at all my post they are all facts!

AOA,I never said that Soviet planes are better than US.
Tank technology or strength isnt much significant,in 1943,soviet -german tanks war,Soviet T-34 tanks outwisted the new German Tiger tanks.Well you know Tiger tanks is the best tank in the world at that time.In ground force war,strategy is the most important.Chinese military had been famous for their strategy since ancient times meaning that their ground force can be the best in the world

 

[King of England]

Fayadi said:

You want to talk about western food?
Do you know that many americans now like Asian food (esp Chinese food).I got damn lots of friends in Boston who refuses to eat in western food.I heard from them Asian food there had much a better business that the western food.
I dont know you are Singaporean Chinese or not ,if you are,you should know Chinese food are the best in the world
What I am saying is,Chinese food is as or more famous than those McDonald's,you can find it everywhere.

yea, lots of people love Chinese food, really popular, very accessible, but I think you're missing the point, Fayadi. I for one have never heard of any one chain of chinese food, especially not from China, that extends all over the world like McDonalds.

Now, I'll leave the discussions of the economy and air power to the rest of you guys.

 

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Fayadi

I dont know you are Singaporean Chinese or not ,if you are,you should know Chinese food are the best in the world.

Ok you say I am boasting?What evidence?If you mind to look back at all my post they are all facts!

If that's not boasting, i don't know what is.

Yes, I happen to be Chinese (genetically). Singapore is a multi-racial society with international tastes- in addition to dishes from different provinces of China we eat all kinds of other food including malay, north indian, tamil, indonesian, italian, french, morrocan, californian, brazilian, swiss, japanese........

If you are enlightened food-wise, you would realise that the way to enjoy eating is to have food from a different region every day.

p.s. boasting has got nothing to do with fact. You can be boasting even if what you say is true (like the non-existing hyper-sonic plane).

And to eveyone else who buys the perpetual China growth story, I have only this to say: One child policy = one young person supporting two old people = big time problems ahead.

 

[Knowltok 2]

You are right that the power has to come from someplace, but there are many power sources that can provide electricy besides oil. Almost all of which can be expanded. Hydro-Electric, wind, solar, coal, and Nuclear are all available. Some are better than others, and some are more feasible than others, but long term I think the focus needs to be on getting off of our dependance on foreign oil. It may not be easy, but that is why I think it should be a national mission. Something those with a vested interest in oil can't hide from.

Oil will still be important for a variety of uses, but oil from the middle east will no longer be critical to our economy.



Chinese food suck!!! (Not really, but I wanted to twist Fayedi's tail a little bit).

 

[kobayashi]

No you are right. Chinese food in the US does suck (and it sucks in many parts of China too). The best Chinese food is in Asian countries outside of China plus Hong Kong (yes yes its a part of China) which is the gold standard.