The Nomad Question

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Not fun for the new continent players... "A ship appears on the horizon. 90% of your population is dead."

Crisis turns for the Civs playing on the "undiscovered" part of the map.

 

[Krikkit1]

Crisis turns for the Civs playing on the "undiscovered" part of the map.

New highest difficulty level “Indigenous”

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

New highest difficulty level “Indigenous”

Of course, even if it is your ship that appears on the horizon, you cannot be certain whether it is the other group or your own that turns out to be "indigenous" . . .

 

[Voidwalkin]

I expect nomads will play the same.

What I'd like is nomadic pastoralism to have its own tech tree and units. Cities would have movement points and actually be able to shift position with an MP equivalent to horse units, provided the terrain is unoccupied. If it isn't, well, might have to make it unoccupied the old fashioned way.

Horse resources would be mobile as well.

It would have its own tech tree.

Nomadic pastoralism could be adopted in any era, provided one has access to horses. Once adopted, the player is unable to build farms or build districts or wonders, at least not traditional ones. They could have their own if you expand the concept.

I might like it if access to cows or sheep allowed access to pastoralism, with speed scaled down to infantry levels, provided you lack horses, to represent some non-Eurasian steppe nomads. Maybe add a camel resource to enable it in the desert?

 

[RedCourtJester]

It seems pretty likely that we’ll be getting the Mongols or a horse raider civ like them in the base game. These civ’s historical ways of life have infamously clashed with Civ’s models of settlement (especially in the trenches of these forums), and for as many sweeping changes as Civ VII aims to make it doesn’t seem like there’s a great accommodation for nomads yet.

So, the nomad question returns for this entry: will pastoralist horse raiders be treated as urban civilizations again, or will they have their own twist in the vein of Humankind’s Hun and Mongol cultures?

Let’s discuss and predict.

Well V and VI both have various ways they depicted things like this, between the Huns/Venice being encourage to war/trade with cities to acquire/use them, or Kongo not getting access to a whole district. As far as VII seems to be shaping up, it looks like Aksum's "improvements" may be the exception for antiquity civs and not the norm.

In truth, it really depends on which civ is included. If it's Scythia, I hope they are incentivized to settle less with more bonuses obtainable through units/mobility, but would still maintain a few settlements. If it's the Huns, I want a sort of mixture between V Huns/Venice, where you only get a capital, Attila's Court, but you can move it around freely as you attack and steal cities. Either way, I don't see a fully nomadic civ working in VII, and even something as gimmicky as my Huns idea would have to be saved for expansions.

 

[moysturfurmer]

So taking a look at the Ordu tile improvement from the gameplay trailer, we can see one tent on a cart. There’s a very good chance this is just a bit of historical flourish, ( the drawing for the Ordu Historic Moment in Civ 6 features a wagon wheel resting on the tent after all) but perhaps this might point to a gameplay mechanic.

So it’s a tile improvement, not a building. This distinction might carry some weight. What we know about Unique Tile Improvements right now is they must be built with production on developed rural tiles. The UTI(let’s workshop a better acronym) does not remove the rural yields underneath it, the rural tile remains “developed.” The requirement that they get built on developed rural tiles might make a mechanic where you can move the Ordu from city to city feasible. If UTIs need to be built on top of developed rural tiles, then there’s no issues of population limits to worry about. Perhaps you’d be able to start a “Move Ordu” project in a city with an Ordu, then after you break the camp down, you can then move it (build a new one for cheap) on a rural tile in another city, closer to your new battlefront,

I don’t really think this is how they’re gonna handle it, but the framework is there for it to be possible. It’s a big assumption for a tiny little cart on a tiny little screenshot

 

[RedCourtJester]

So taking a look at the Ordu tile improvement from the gameplay trailer, we can see one tent on a cart. There’s a very good chance this is just a bit of historical flourish, ( the drawing for the Ordu Historic Moment in Civ 6 features a wagon wheel resting on the tent after all) but perhaps this might point to a gameplay mechanic.

So it’s a tile improvement, not a building. This distinction might carry some weight. What we know about Unique Tile Improvements right now is they must be built with production on developed rural tiles. The UTI(let’s workshop a better acronym) does not remove the rural yields underneath it, the rural tile remains “developed.” The requirement that they get built on developed rural tiles might make a mechanic where you can move the Ordu from city to city feasible. If UTIs need to be built on top of developed rural tiles, then there’s no issues of population limits to worry about. Perhaps you’d be able to start a “Move Ordu” project in a city with an Ordu, then after you break the camp down, you can then move it (build a new one for cheap) on a rural tile in another city, closer to your new battlefront,

I don’t really think this is how they’re gonna handle it, but the framework is there for it to be possible. It’s a big assumption for a tiny little cart on a tiny little screenshot

Which tent? The one bottom-left just looks like it is on some sort of deck/platform, not a cart.

 

[moysturfurmer]

Which tent? The one bottom-left just looks like it is on some sort of deck/platform, not a cart.

Screenshot taken on my phone a couple weeks ago. Here’s a better look.

 

[AriochIV]

The little yurt on a cart in the foreground looks to me like an ancillary part of that much larger round structure, which I would guess to be a Palace or something on a similar level. I'd be really surprised if that was an improvement.

 

[RedCourtJester]

The little yurt on a cart in the foreground looks to me like an ancillary part of that much larger round structure, which I would guess to be a Palace or something on a similar level. I'd be really surprised if that was an improvement.

Yeah I see the cart now but I also agree with you. If it were a mobile improvement, I feel like the entire tile would read more clearly as mobile.

 

[moysturfurmer]

The little yurt on a cart in the foreground looks to me like an ancillary part of that much larger round structure, which I would guess to be a Palace or something on a similar level. I'd be really surprised if that was an improvement.

Thing is, the general size of the asset and central placement on the tile makes it seem like a tile improvement. Whether or not it’s mobile is impossible to say (I agree that it’s unlikely at best), but I feel like we can be fairly certain* its a tile improvement. I think the Mongolian palace might be the green domed structure behind the walls, personally.

*nothing is certain, all is shrouded in darkness

 

[stealth_nsk]

Thing is, the general size of the asset and central placement on the tile makes it seem like a tile improvement. Whether or not it’s mobile is impossible to say (I agree that it’s unlikely at best), but I feel like we can be fairly certain* its a tile improvement. I think the Mongolian palace might be the green domed structure behind the walls, personally.

*nothing is certain, all is shrouded in darkness

My guess is what it could be a Mongolian unique district.

 

[AriochIV]

Thing is, the general size of the asset and central placement on the tile makes it seem like a tile improvement. Whether or not it’s mobile is impossible to say (I agree that it’s unlikely at best), but I feel like we can be fairly certain* its a tile improvement. I think the Mongolian palace might be the green domed structure behind the walls, personally.

*nothing is certain, all is shrouded in darkness

It does seem to take up the whole tile, but I would expect an improvement on Horses to have more than just 2 horses hanging out at the edge. Then again, the unique improvements go on top of the regular improvements and we haven't seen an example of what that looks like, so anything is possible.

 

[Nikolai II]

Not fun for the new continent players... "A ship appears on the horizon. 90% of your population is dead."

Also, who's to decide which side to assign the 90% loss?

 

[Zaarin]

Also, who's to decide which side to assign the 90% loss?

And of course there's no reason to assume that one hemisphere must have less virulent diseases than the other as happened on Earth. (I guess that was probably nice for them while it lasted.)

 

[Josephias]

Also, who's to decide which side to assign the 90% loss?

Both. Pox on one side, Siphilis in the other. Just make the % depend on available patient isolation practices (the Siphilis side had suffered the Black Death some years before)

 

[SammyKhalifa]

And of course there's no reason to assume that one hemisphere must have less virulent diseases than the other as happened on Earth. (I guess that was probably nice for them while it lasted.)

No but if one side had closer contact with farm animals they're possibly more immune.

 

[Nikolai II]

Both. Pox on one side, Siphilis in the other. Just make the % depend on available patient isolation practices (the Siphilis side had suffered the Black Death some years before)

Syphilis is not 100% proven to have come from the New World though. And it was way less lethal in large numbers than the other diseases sent to America.

 

[Nikolai II]

Then again, this is a bit OT for this topic. Feel free to start a new thread on the topic.

 

[Josephias]

Syphilis is not 100% proven to have come from the New World though. And it was way less lethal in large numbers than the other diseases sent to America.

Well, there is another benefitial point in being the one that reaches the “new” continent, actually: any disease lethal enough would kill at least half the ship crew before it reaches back to the old ports.

Yet mortality rates among settlers, specially those not used to hot caribbean climate were also not small.