The Offtopicgrad Soviet: A Place to Discuss All Things Red

[Borachio]

Yeah. And as I've said, I don't get it.

edit: ^ ah, right. OK.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

I was doing my Cave Johnson impression.

 

[Borachio]

Ahhhh! I see.

I'm gonna burn your house down with combustible lemons.

 

[Domen]

Cheezy:

The Soviets were only very lightly involved with the Polish Civil War.

What do you mean by Polish "Civil War" ??? There was no such thing.

There was Polish-Soviet War, which was one of several conflicts fought by Poland in that period.

History books from the Interwar period called those conflicts (in 1918 - 1921) "War For Preserving Independence And Shaping the Borders of Poland".

Claiming that the Soviets were "only very ligthtly involved" in Poland is also not true.

Apart from the strength of forces involved (which was huge), they also inflicted heavy losses.

Monthly losses (killed, died, wounded and missing - sick soldiers not included) of the Polish Army during the Polish-Soviet War:

Yellow strip = timeline of the Polish-Soviet War (until the ceasefire in late October 1920, not until the peace treaty in March 1921)
Blue strip = timeline of the Polish-Ukrainian war (from 1 November 1918 to 17 July 1919)
Orange strip = timeline of the Polish-Czechoslovak war (from 23 to 30 January 1919)

The highest monthly losses - over 50,000 - were in August 1920:

Total losses in killed, died, wounded and missing (not counting sick) were 255,846 soldiers and officers - including 203,723 in year 1920.

Polish losses during the Greater Polish Uprising and the Silesian Uprisings are not included here (those were not losses of the Polish Army).

If including losses in those uprisings and losses of improvised self-defence units in various places, then the total number of fatalities in War For Preserving Independence And Shaping the Borders of Poland (1918 - 1921) was over 100,000 killed, died and missing w/o a trace.

For example the confirmed number of fatalities in the Greater Poland Uprising is 2289. But it is possible that this number of mortal losses is still not fully complete. Initially after the end of combats the number of officially reported fatalities was 1714, but that number was incomplete.

Among these 2289, over 110 are still missing without a trace today (it is not certain what happened to them).

Of course this only to Polish killed / dead / missing in the Greater Poland Uprising. German losses are not included in these numbers.

I'm saying that the Soviets were only there [in Poland] for a few weeks at best

Considering that Poland at that time had no eastern border, how do you define when they entered it and when they were pushed back from it?

Because defining where Poland starts (as of 1920) is important for establishing for how long exactly the Soviets were in Poland.

============================================

"Battle of Warsaw 1920" movie with English subtitles:


Link to video.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

I was doing my Cave Johnson impression.

Ahhhh! I see.

I'm gonna burn your house down with combustible lemons.

It's doubtful that he actually intended to do a Cave Johnson impression, especially judging from his dumb-founded initial response. Sounds like a ret-con to me.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

It's doubtful that he actually intended to do a Cave Johnson impression, especially judging from his dumb-founded initial response. Sounds like a ret-con to me.

Gone three days and this thread is still talking about me.

Hegemony.

And, btw, I didn't know who Cave Johnson was until Cheezy threw the praying mantis quote.

So, minus 1 million points to whoever [besides Cheez, of course] knew without googling.

With this Lenin quote in mind, I bid farewell for the day:

Ourprincipal and fundamental task is to facilitate the political development and the political organisation of the working class. Those who push this task into the back ground, who refuse to subordinate to it all the special tasks and particular methods of struggle, are following a false path and causing serious harm to the movement. And it is being pushed into the background, firstly, by those who call upon revolutionaries to employ only the forces of isolated conspiratorial circles cut off from the working-class movement in the struggle against the government. It is being pushed into the background, secondly, by those who restrict the content and scope of political propaganda, agitation, and organisation; who think it fit and proper to treat the workers to “politics” only at exceptional moments in their lives, only on festive occasions; who too solicitously substitute demands for partial concessions from the autocracy for the political struggle against the autocracy; and who do not go to sufficient lengths to ensure that these demands for partial concessions are raised to the status of a systematic, implacable struggle of a revolutionary, working-class party against the autocracy.

Thanks to all who wished me congrats on my engagement. What Reds I don't recruit from the masses I can now breed...

 

[Domen]

History Channel produced a documentary about Witold Pilecki (famous Polish Anti-Nazi and Anti-Communist resistance fighter):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy3a588yAwg


Link to video.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Gone three days and this thread is still talking about me.

Hegemony.

Records show your last response took place yesterday... and just a couple posts ago.

And, btw, I didn't know who Cave Johnson was until Cheezy threw the praying mantis quote.

That was... painfully obvious

 

[ReindeerThistle]

No response to the Lenin quote? Sheesh!

 

[Borachio]

For autocracy read politburo and the quote makes some sense.

 

[classical_hero]

No response to the Lenin quote? Sheesh!

Once Lenin got into power those words became meaningless.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Fidel Castro Ruz expertly presents the Marxist-Leninist view of the war in Gaza

History is much more complicated than everything I have said, but that is the way it is, in broad strokes, as the inhabitants of Palestine know, and it is likewise logical that the modern communications media reflect the news which arrives daily, as has occurred with the shameful, criminal war in the Gaza Strip, a piece of land where the population lives in what remains of what was independent Palestine only 50 years ago.

The French agency AFP reported August 2, “The war between the Islamist Palestinian movement Hamas and Israel has caused the deaths of close to 1,800 Palestinians,… the destruction of thousands of homes, and ruined an economy which was already weakened,” although it does not indicate, of course, who initiated the terrible war.

Added later, “… As of Saturday at midday the Israeli offensive had killed 1,712 Palestinians and injured 8,900. The United Nations was able to verify the identities of 1,117 dead, in their majority civilians … UNICEF counted at least 296 dead minors.”

“The United Nations estimates …some 58,900 persons homeless in the Gaza Strip.”

“Ten of the 32 hospitals were closed and another 11 damaged.”

“This Palestinian enclave of 362 km² does not have the infrastructure needed for 1.8 million inhabitants, above all in terms of the provision of electricity and water.”

“According to the IMF, the rate of unemployment surpasses 40% in the Gaza Strip, territory subjected to an Israeli blockade since 2006. In 2000, unemployment was 20%, and in 2011, 30%. More than 70% of the population depends on humanitarian aid during normal periods, according to Gisha.

The Israeli government declared a humanitarian truce in Gaza at 07:00 GMT on Monday, nevertheless within a few hours, it broke the truce attacking a house, injuring 30 persons, in their majority women and children, and an eight-year-old girl died.

In the dawn hours of this same day, 10 Palestinians died as a result of Israeli attacks in all of Gaza and the number of Palestinians murdered has already increased to 2,000.
The killing has reached the point that, “French Minister of Foreign Affairs Laurent Fabius stated this Monday that Israel’s right to security does not justify the massacre of civilians taking place.”

The Nazi genocide of Jews outraged all the earth’s peoples. Why does this government believe that the world will be insensitive to the macabre genocide which today is being perpetuated against the Palestinian people? Perhaps it is expected that the complicity of the U.S. empire in this shameful massacre will be ignored?

That's all I got...

 

[Agent327]

I'm guessing you left out the ML bit.

History is much more complicated than everything I have said, but that is the way it is, in broad strokes, as the inhabitants of Palestine know, and it is likewise logical that the modern communications media reflect the news which arrives daily, as has occurred with the shameful, criminal war in the Gaza Strip, a piece of land where the population lives in what remains of what was independent Palestine only 50 years ago.

Palestine wasn't independent, it was part of the British mandate. Independence was exactly the issue at hand.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

 

[Agent327]

I suggest the thread stick to facts, even when discussing ideology.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Cheezy:


What do you mean by Polish "Civil War" ??? There was no such thing.

First, please do not drop enormous posts with all your favorite Polish links into my thread. The above quote is all that your post required. Do not wear out my mouse wheel. Thanks.

Anyway, by Polish civil war I referred to the 1945-47 period, when different factions jockeyed for power in postwar Poland. It's not known as a Civil War, but it was effectively a civil war.

The Soviets didn't get very heavily involved in it, but they threatened to, which was enough.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

I suggest the thread stick to facts, even when discussing ideology.

Fact: The British Mandate ended in 1948, which was 66 years ago.

2014 - 50 years = 1964. The year of the Palestine National Charter.

When you post, please do so responsibly, 'cause I got a lot of Castro to cite!

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

First, please do not drop enormous posts with all your favorite Polish links into my thread. The above quote is all that your post required. Do not wear out my mouse wheel. Thanks.

I want charts, quotes, and images that describe Poland in 1945-1947 when it was in the process of turning to communism.

 

[Agent327]

Fact: The British Mandate ended in 1948, which was 66 years ago.

2014 - 50 years = 1964. The year of the Palestine National Charter.

When you post, please do so responsibly, 'cause I got a lot of Castro to cite!

Which we always find very amusing.

So, where is this 'independent Palestine' of yours? Or did you just miss the fact that it was immediately overrun by the first Arab-Israeli war? In 1948. 66 years ago. When the British mandate ended.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I want charts, quotes, and images that describe Poland in 1945-1947 when it was in the process of turning to communism.

I have some very boring pdfs of text I can send you.