There were also many people in Eastern and Central Europe who were ready to try something new after having seen the murderous double-failure of capitalism and Western ideas, otherwise the Soviets would not have been able to stick around no matter how many guys with guns they had.
The Soviets were only very lightly involved with the Polish Civil War. They were ready to become more involved, but it proved unnecessary.
That there were people ready to sell their countries off to Soviet tyranny in the name of their communist ideal I do not deny. However, those people were never a majority, which is why the Soviets never allowed for free election in any country they occupied. Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, the story was always the same. Rigged elections, suppression of any and all opposition, single-party rule.
You're the one who brought up the militias that welcomed the Nazis, not me. I simply pointed out who you were praising.
My point was that not everyone who welcomed the Germans was a Nazi sympathizer. People were so fed up of Stalinist brutality that they were ready to welcome anyone who kicked the Bolsheviks out. Of course, they would regret it later as the Germans treated them with unprecedented barbarism. But my original point, that many Ukrainians hated the Soviets so much that they were ready to welcome the Germans, is very true. To try to paint all anti-Soviet sentiment as the works of Jew-murdering Fascists is ridiculous Stalinist propaganda.
I wasn't even talking to you with that response. Calm down.
But I was addressing you anyway.
I don't know how they felt, I'm saying that the Soviets were only there for a few weeks at best, so there wasn't time for that kind of thing to manifest itself. I don't really care how they felt in 1920.
Yeah you don't care how they felt, but your great prophet Lenin was ready to shove Bolshevism down their throats, until his Red Army got it's butt kicked at Warsaw by the Polish people, not just Army. It was a battle for survival.
You see the word "citation" in my post? You must have, since you conveniently edited it out.
When I quoted you it wasn't there. I certainly didn't edit anything out.
Do the Soviets take their marching orders from Nazi Germany? The Germans can urge whatever they wish, that doesn't mean the Soviets are obliged to do anything about it. As I said and proved, the Soviets had every intention of maintaining the Polish rump state as a barrier.
No, they both had agreed to invade Poland simultaneously, as can be seen on the telegrams exchanged between them.
So I guess you don't understand how this post doesn't disprove mine, right? Only the narrative applied is different, the facts are the same.
Simple. You claimed that the Soviets invading Poland was a blow to Germany. I demonstrated that the Germans actually urged the Soviets to invade. How could it be a blow if it was the fulfillment of German wishes? So you were disproved.
The Protocols only delineated spheres of interest, they were not a contract agreeing to mutual invasion. The Soviets bore no obligation to do so, they only entered when the Polish government fled to Romania, where they were detained (because Romania was neutral), instead of backing up into eastern Poland to continue the conflict. Without a legal Polish government, there could be no rump state in the Soviet zone of influence to serve as a barrier with Germany. Thus, they entered Poland to stop the Nazis from rolling all the way up to the Belorussian border.
Oh, please. The Protocols were clearly meant to design occupation zones. Spheres of influence Stalin's arse. They were talking about an action partition of Poland.
They entered Poland as agreed with the Nazis, and in fact as repeatedly requested by the Nazis. Your bizarre theory is that the Nazis actually wanted to be prevented from rolling all the way to the Belorussian border? Why would the Nazis urge the Soviets to invade Poland, under your theory???
How can you repeat BS that's been discredited decades years ago as Stalinist propaganda with a clean face?
By the way, I actually read my sources. You just went to wikipedia and scooped up a part of an article. Probably a bit more that you missed by doing so. But hey, expertise in a subject means nothing when you have Google!
I've read several books on the subject, but they're not here with me so I can't cite them precisely. But yeah, Google and Wiki are more than enough to expose Stalinist propaganda.
Eh, the government prior to the USSR was called Sovnarkom, for Soviet Narodnikh Komissarov, or Council of People's Deputies. I doubt Luiz knew that, but it's forgivable to refer to the government or its subjects and agents as Soviet. However, the country should never be referred to as the Soviet Union or USSR before 1922.
Even scholars refer to that as the Polish-Soviet War.
