Darksaber1
Secret Emperor
I'm just wonder as to peoples opinions on the Order. Choose the best fit.
The Order
- Thread starter Darksaber1
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Thunder_Gr
Emperor
What a close minded poll is that? All options include they are "fanatics"?
The Order is just a proposed way of life. The fact is that, where this way of life is accepted by the citizents, there is a demand for certain behaviour.
Order is most of all about Justice. Although some may argue that this is all Empyrean. Empyrean is about Honor. Order is about Justice. As simple as that.
Order holds to a code that is supposed to bring a well constructed and constructive society. It is this law that everyone is judged with, and the hold to this law to the letter. I do not think they are any more fanatics than the rest of the religions
The Order is just a proposed way of life. The fact is that, where this way of life is accepted by the citizents, there is a demand for certain behaviour.
Order is most of all about Justice. Although some may argue that this is all Empyrean. Empyrean is about Honor. Order is about Justice. As simple as that.
Order holds to a code that is supposed to bring a well constructed and constructive society. It is this law that everyone is judged with, and the hold to this law to the letter. I do not think they are any more fanatics than the rest of the religions
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Erebus is not a world of moderates. Since the fall of several of the gods, the balance of the universe is off. Of course their followers, the evil religions, are dark and extreme, but the rest of the world is too as the spheres, metaphysical principles really, that those gods governed have become twisted.
So while I ususally defend the Order, it must be acknowledged that much of world is fanatics of various causes or beliefs.
So while I ususally defend the Order, it must be acknowledged that much of world is fanatics of various causes or beliefs.
cabbagemeister
Please wait...
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You could argue that all FFH religions are mostly composed of "raving fanatics," they just differ in what they're fanatic about (lawfullness, knowledge, trees, the nightmares of a tormented god...)
Thunder_Gr
Emperor
YOU, although having Valin as your avatar's image, are a betrayal of the Justice of Junil, and will soon hear, or rather feel, from our local inquisitor!!!
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Well, I know better than to throw myself on the mercy of that court. 
KillerClowns
Emperor
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Why do I suspect myself an indirect cause of this poll?
I voted "some are raving fanatics," and I'm sure the sane-to-fanatic ratio is second to only the Ashen Veil, if even that. And raving fanatics, by definition, rave. Loudly.
You never hear about Jane Doe, the little old lady who minds her own business, always has a nice word for the people she passes, accepted her daughter's marriage to a follower of Kilmorph with only minor complaints, and happens to follow Junil, because Jane Doe isn't important in Erebus' big picture. Her brother John Doe, the Confessor who preaches on the street corners, declaring the present church of Junil to be corrupt and demanding it be overthrown and replaced with one that will not tolerate the filth of non-believers, rallying all who will listen together to torch the temples of the foreign gods, and eventually rising through the ranks of the Order whilst unwittingly slaving to Camulos, starting a reign of terror that spreads as his influence grows, is. The Janes outnumber the Johns (vastly), but the Janes are just the population numbers. The Johns are the ones you use.
EDIT: The main reason I take such interest in the Janes, despite them being non-entities in-game, is that I've been on-and-off contemplating an RPG, D&D campaign, or some such in the FfH universe, where the Janes are more likely to rise to importance.
I voted "some are raving fanatics," and I'm sure the sane-to-fanatic ratio is second to only the Ashen Veil, if even that. And raving fanatics, by definition, rave. Loudly.
You never hear about Jane Doe, the little old lady who minds her own business, always has a nice word for the people she passes, accepted her daughter's marriage to a follower of Kilmorph with only minor complaints, and happens to follow Junil, because Jane Doe isn't important in Erebus' big picture. Her brother John Doe, the Confessor who preaches on the street corners, declaring the present church of Junil to be corrupt and demanding it be overthrown and replaced with one that will not tolerate the filth of non-believers, rallying all who will listen together to torch the temples of the foreign gods, and eventually rising through the ranks of the Order whilst unwittingly slaving to Camulos, starting a reign of terror that spreads as his influence grows, is. The Janes outnumber the Johns (vastly), but the Janes are just the population numbers. The Johns are the ones you use.
EDIT: The main reason I take such interest in the Janes, despite them being non-entities in-game, is that I've been on-and-off contemplating an RPG, D&D campaign, or some such in the FfH universe, where the Janes are more likely to rise to importance.
Thunder_Gr
Emperor
Well, religion and fanatisism go together most of the times. This is why I like better the way Cassiel and Enion Logos have settled these matters. However, I am really against labelling one specific religion as fanatics, and the rest as "non fanatics". Within all religions are the persons who really believe in the concept of the religion. What the "creator" wanted to give to the people. But all religions are usually lead by people who only care to exercise their will upon others, i.e. to gain power and money. So, mostly the high levels of ierarchy among the clergy of every religion is, usually, corrupted, but this does not make the religion corrupted...
So, I think it is unfair to declare Order as a religion of fanatics, and poll whether people think they are or not. What to say then for OO, not to mention the AV, of course. And that single minding attitude of Empyrean towards Honor, is also fanatic. FoL and RoK are, rightfully IMO, free of fanatisim, and the only ones to do so.
So, I think it is unfair to declare Order as a religion of fanatics, and poll whether people think they are or not. What to say then for OO, not to mention the AV, of course. And that single minding attitude of Empyrean towards Honor, is also fanatic. FoL and RoK are, rightfully IMO, free of fanatisim, and the only ones to do so.
Nikis-Knight
Deity
I think fanatic doesn't mean what you think it means, then.
I voted "some are raving fanatics". After reading much of the lore and reading the forums for quite a while, I have the impression that The Order isn't quite as harsh as some of the pedia entries make it out to be. Mainly because those pedia entries are examples of extreme fanaticism to show how bad Erebus is. On the other hand, quite a few entries show that The Order has some compassion (ei. give oath, you're fine. until you break it), but that isn't always the course used due to some overzealous Confessors ect (like in Fall of Cuantine). I really can't see the majority of it's followers acting in a crazy manner toward followers of other religions, except AV, since that's the whole reason the Order exists.
Seon
Not An Evil Liar
I voted for 'some are raving fanatics.' It seems to me that Erebusian religion is mostly similar to real religions except that gods are actually proven to exist. It is my point of view that all religions will have some raving fanatics, but the rest would be rather be nice.
Giga-Gigan
Warlord
I'd like to see the rather nice Ashen Veil worshipers.
KillerClowns
Emperor
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I've always envisioned the Ashen Veil as being two religions. An outer cult, which would vary depending on need. and the inner cult where the demon-summoning, human sacrifice, et cetera happens. More observant members of the outer cult vaguely know about the activities of the inner cult, but as long as it isn't their problem they might pretend it doesn't happen. In civs that didn't follow the Ashen Veil, but didn't actively purge them either, the outer cult would be a scholarly, philosophical religion of reason and rationality, with genuinely good people and teachings that even a follower of the Order or the Empyrean would agree with (if they didn't know who was teaching it). Followers of said outer cult would slowly but surely be introduced to and indoctrinated with the more unsavory parts of the Ashen Veil, in the fashion of real-world cults. If they were to die before being particularly indoctrinated, they might find themselves in Arwan's, or maybe Oghma's, vault. In actual Ashen Veil civilizations, the Outer Cult would have a theme of living a life of meaningless hedonism to keep the population under control and assure their damnation: think Brave New World hedonism and meaningless sex and drugs for the higher ups, with a bit of Fahrenheit 451's wanton disregard for other human lives for poorer citizens, and a healthy dose of 1984 (with demons added for taste) to deal with dissidents. I should imagine a very large number of those dissidents will be honestly loyal followers of Agares, and believe they are doing his will as they try to overthrow the government that oppresses them.
Diamondeye
So Happy I Could Die
"Only a few are raving Fanatics "... I might change opinions once I face the Bannor next, though.
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Big Hyborem is watching you.
Anyway, the Savant story supports your take, KC.
Anyway, the Savant story supports your take, KC.
KillerClowns
Emperor
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It was one of the main inspirations for my views of the religion; I had trouble imagining the Veil operating in public before reading it. Because "we're a cult worshiping Creation's most bloodthirsty god, intent upon destroying the world and damning as many as possible to eternity in the depths of hell, and really, we're just in it because he happens to give us a lot of really cool toys to play with as long as we sacrifice our blood and loads of innocent civilians," isn't the sort of line with which one obtains followers.
Thunder_Gr
Emperor
Sure. And some people call Order fanatics..Tsk, tsk...
Kael
Deity
One of my favorite points about the Order is that, unlike in our world where you can question the truth of any religion, in a world where demons walk around killing people fanatism is a much more reasonable response. Especially by the Bannor who have been through trials where any deviation from strict obediance endangered themselves and their community.
Judging the Order by modern culture certainly places them as strict religious fanatics. But judging them in the world of Erebus, I dont know, they may be the only sane ones.
Judging the Order by modern culture certainly places them as strict religious fanatics. But judging them in the world of Erebus, I dont know, they may be the only sane ones.
Avahz Darkwood
Emperor
I think they may very well be the only sane ones. The Order and the Mercurians are the only ones directly fighting the AV- The Elohim will try to keep the AC down, but they don't do much more.
OO: Self explanatory
FOL: They would rather hid in their trees and hope the world don't end
ROK: Exchange tree for rocks
, their faith don't even get serious until AC 70 when the Mithril Golem kicks in, but by then it's pretty much too late.
CoE: They don't care one way or the other
Emp: Lets talk about this...
AV: Lets sell our souls for power...
The only issue here is that their are other religions in Erebus, but they are not represented. I am sure some are sane. (maybe the pagan temples should be changed to represent the patron deity of each civ, with special ones like the desert shrine for patrons deities represented by a major religion)
OO: Self explanatory
FOL: They would rather hid in their trees and hope the world don't end
ROK: Exchange tree for rocks
, their faith don't even get serious until AC 70 when the Mithril Golem kicks in, but by then it's pretty much too late.CoE: They don't care one way or the other
Emp: Lets talk about this...
AV: Lets sell our souls for power...
The only issue here is that their are other religions in Erebus, but they are not represented. I am sure some are sane. (maybe the pagan temples should be changed to represent the patron deity of each civ, with special ones like the desert shrine for patrons deities represented by a major religion)
