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The Plant civ - Ideas thread

Discussion in 'Orbis Modmod' started by Opera, Aug 27, 2009.

  1. lemonjelly

    lemonjelly Modding For Ethne

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    Fruit resources, like bananas. IIRC, there are more, but I can't think of any. And, if there aren't more, there should be more =]
     
  2. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    There are apples in WoC. ;)
     
  3. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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  4. Opera

    Opera Deity

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    Hmmm... I could create a 'Fertility' value, replacing Health and Unhealth in the city screen. It wouldn't just be Health minus Unhealth; I think I'll add some things modifying the Fertility value directly, like buildings and such... This Fertility value would be divided by pop points to get a Fertility/population ratio which will determine the bonuses. Those would be displayed at the right of the Fertility value...

    -----

    As I discussed with P_L, here's a list of the current planned mechanics:

    Fertility;
    Avatars;
    Forests of Eternity;
    Gaian Terrain;
    Dryads;
    Seeded units.

    Add to this the quirks of each unit line (hard-to-get ships, invisible pixies, exploding workers, etc.).

    As P_L said, I think some can be merged together: Dryads and Avatars are nice but might be over the top to show that a city = a tree; I say, let's keep the Avatars, which are real cool badass goodness; maybe we could use the Dryads as units elsewhere in the civ ;)

    Also, Gaian Terrain & Forests of Eternity. I don't remember how our discussion ended on this; I think using only Forests of Eternity will do... But I may need to read some previous pages to remind me of what we said.

    Fertility seems a nice idea and Seeded units are in anyway, because, as Avatars, they're cool ;)

    If I forgot anything, let me know.
     
  5. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    Would fertility replace all health for all civs? or just Re Ki? i dont really think it is necessary to change a core mechanic like health so dramatically. id rather just use the Dwarven Vault mechanic like i suggested earlier.

    i did quite like the Dryad idea with the unit spawning. perhaps we can make the Dryads the Arcane line and let them keep some minimal unit spawning capabilities with a one shot immortality once they hit archmage to represent their tie with their Tree.

    alternatively we can make Dryads the Immortal UU, with a permanent reusable immortality ability, and the ability to spawn some units.
     
  6. Opera

    Opera Deity

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    The issue with the Dwarven Vault mechanic is that: 1) it's poorly displayed, you get little information of what is going on and how you can change it; 2) it has already been done.

    And yes, I would just do it for the Re Ki; the others won't have much use of it.

    I'm not sure there... what do the lurkers think?
     
  7. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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  8. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    true on the dwarven vault mechanic being used already, but i dont really see a problem with altering the effects with similar mechanics.

    what exactly are your ideas for your fertility mechanic? im a little confused what you want it to achieve...
     
  9. Imuratep

    Imuratep Cultist of the Old Ones

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    I don't see much of a problem in repeating a mechanic as long as it leads to different ways of playing a civ.
    If you give them production boni they will indeed play similar to the Khazad. But if you give them food and happiness boni I think they will play very differently as their cities will grow very fast at the beginning as the :health:/:yuck: is the biggest in a small city, but once you reach the health-limit the boni will go down and the growth will be like for other civilizations. The mechanic balances itself as the only thing you get is food boni and those only help you if you let your cities grow which leads to a worse :health:/:yuck:-relation and thus the boni will get smaller and will perhaps even turn into mali. The player will have to think until which point he wants to keep growing. Strategic interesting choices and different ways to play the game attract players to a new civ and I am sure this mechanic will offer both.
     
  10. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    i like your way of thinking Imuratep :)
     
  11. Opera

    Opera Deity

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    Ok, so I guess the fertility mechanic is a no...

    Could you please precise what would be the mechanic exactly, then, Imurated and P_L?
     
  12. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    well im still open to the fertility mechanic, but i have no idea what you have planned. can you explain the idea as well pleas Opera?
     
  13. Imuratep

    Imuratep Cultist of the Old Ones

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    In the following example :yuck: and :health: always signify a relation not absolute numbers. I thought of something like this:

    infinite :yuck: to 11 :yuck: --> building with strongly negative consequences: -30 % food 4 :mad: -50% culture (withered plants are less beautiful)
    Comment on this one: It will probably only occur on blight but it is really a pain and thus gives the player a reason to avoid a rising AC what IMHO makes a lot of sense. Another way are enemy uses spies, but I think an unusual counterweapon against this civ is not a bad thing.

    10 :yuck: to 5 :yuck: --> building with negative consequences: -20% food 2 :mad: -30% culture

    4 :yuck: to 1 :yuck: building with slightly negative consequences: -10% food 1 :mad: -20% culture

    0 :yuck: / 0 :health: --> No advantages or disadvantages

    1 :health: to 4 :health: --> building with slightly positive consequences: +10% food 1 :) +20% culture (florishing plants are more beautiful and I think there are not enough ways to enable cultural victory)

    5 :health: to 10 :health: --> building with positive consequences +20% food 2 :) +30% culture

    11 :health: to infinite :health: --> building with strongly positive consequences +30% food 4 :) +50% culture

    P.S.: For the fertility mechanic I have no real idea what you had planned. Explain it a bit. Even if you don't like it yourself (otherwise I don't see a reason why you should drop it immediately. It is your mod and you are the person that has to enjoy it the most) perhaps we could polish on it together.
     
  14. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    I like Imuratep's design there... primarily. i think the actual values a bit over the top though (my oppinion lower down)

    but first one thing that we should be careful with this is Blight (as you kind of mentioned). Blight will absolutely decimate the Re Ki if we use this mechanic. as it is 15-20 unhealth for x turns reduces a city to 1 pop. add on top of that -30 % food 4 unhappiness and -50% culture and your cities not only shrink, they stay shrunk. in this instance a sepparate value such as fertility would be good, but id still like a better idea of what Opera had planned. i also agree with imuratep's P.S.

    heres my opinion:

    infinite :yuck: to 11 :yuck: --> building with strongly negative consequences: -20 % food 2 :mad: -20% culture (withered plants are less beautiful)

    10 :yuck: to 5 :yuck: --> building with negative consequences: -15% food 1 :mad: -15% culture

    4 :yuck: to 1 :yuck: building with slightly negative consequences: -10% food, -10% culture

    0 :yuck: / 0 :health: --> No advantages or disadvantages

    1 :health: to 4 :health: --> building with slightly positive consequences: +15% food 1 :) +10% culture (florishing plants are more beautiful and I think there are not enough ways to enable cultural victory) (the benefits should be slightly greater then the penalties for this mechanic)

    5 :health: to 10 :health: --> building with positive consequences +20% food 2 :) +15% culture

    11 :health: to infinite :health: --> building with strongly positive consequences +25% food 3 :) +20% culture
     
  15. Opera

    Opera Deity

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    Okay, let me explain fertility.

    It would be a Re Ki-only concept, a quantifiable one; let's use :xtree: as an icon for it right now.

    Conceptually, :xtree: would represent the 'growth power' of the Vë and, by extension, of the soil around it. It would be different than health :)health:) because, at least as I understand it, :health: represents the health of the citizens themselves.

    So, :health: would still matter for :xtree: but only as a part of it, not as the totality; meaning :xtree: won't simply be equal to the :health: level.

    :xtree: would be modified by improvements, features and terrains; so by plot themselves. But also by some buildings. You could have buildings reducing :xtree: in exchange of some other bonus; or you could sacrifice some maintenance for more :xtree:.

    :xtree: could affect the chance of spawning of some features (Forests of Eternity for example) and the chance of them disappearing. Since FoE are tied to the Vë, they would most likely die out without enough :xtree:.

    But most importantly, :xtree: would affect the city happiness, production and such. More :xtree: would mean more "power", more capability, more citizens produced by the Vë, more things able to be produced, etc.

    There wouldn't be negative :xtree: though; 0 would be the worst case, totally not fertile. Deserts would be 0:xtree: for example. All the levels and numbers would need a good lot of thinking though... But the idea is that you want highly fertile grounds because it can give you benefits.

    (note: some modifiers could 'add' negative fertility... like Mines would remove 1 fertility point, but in the code, if :xtree: goes under 0, it would be set to 0)

    (note2: codewise, we would have :xtree: modifiers for: improvements, buildings, features, terrains, religions?, civics?)

    (note3: interface-wise, I could add a "fertility value" to plots when hovering them so you know which plots won't give you enough fertility)

    The thing would be that we would need a way to make the player not always take the fertility road; make some non-fertile things interesting too.
     
  16. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    now that i know what you mean by Fetility i (once again) have changed my mind and think your fertility method with be much more prefferable. especially because it is mostly sepparate from health and so Blight wont be a problem. i also like the different modifiers from improvements, buildings, features, terrains etc.

    my only concern is the fertility value being displayed to other civs. is it possible to make the whole fertility mechanic invisible to other civs?
     
  17. Opera

    Opera Deity

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    Yes, it's possible. I could use a value called bIsPlant and make every display thing tied to it being true ;)
     
  18. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    I say go with the Fertility mechanic. It's vastly different from the Vaults (Good thing, imo), and is more interesting than being based on just health. ;)
     
  19. Imuratep

    Imuratep Cultist of the Old Ones

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    Does this mean you actually count each used yield and look for its fertility or each yield in city radius or just the one the city stands on?
     
  20. Opera

    Opera Deity

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    I'm not sure... That reminds of something I had thought of... Sounds interesting but not necessary I think:

    Each Vë would begin with only a 1-tile radius. Then you'd have a "Extend Roots" ritual/building available only past X:xtree:, extending to 2-tile radius. And there would be a second "Extend Roots" thing able to go to 3-tile radius but requiring an exceptional amount of :xtree:...

    So that would mean that EVERY tile in the vicinity of the Vë will count for fertility, worked or not.
     

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