Perhaps Iran realises that Oil will run out some day and try to maintain their share of the power-production by investing already now in nuclear power, hydrogen and sustainable energy.PantheraTigris2 said:
Please think before you shout.
The PNAC won't like this... Iran Story
- Thread starter Azadre
- Start date
Please think before you shout.
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
I should admit I agree with Rik when he says the US should collaborate further with Iran. Just like it was in the interests of Nixon's America to get warmer relations with China, it's now in the US interests to have warmer relations with Iran.
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
Well, even if that's certainly part of the story, I must admit I'm not totally sure about it.Rik Meleet said:
Iran has been put in the Axis of evil together with Iraq and North Korea. Iraq has been attacked. I guess that obtaining the nuke would be a good way to become unattackable, that's what the last member of the Axis of evil, North Korea, thought. And for instance, the mad freak Kim has been proven as right.
PantheraTigris2
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2003
- Messages
- 2,006
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
I'm not sure if a nuclear Iran is something we should fear more than a nuclear Saudi Arabia. And through the strong alliance between the Arab Kingdom and Pakistan, this is nearly what we have already. 
Morally speaking, the Saudi regime is more autocratic, corrupted, and against the human rights than Iran is... and Iran is already a good competitor in those categories.
Morally speaking, the Saudi regime is more autocratic, corrupted, and against the human rights than Iran is... and Iran is already a good competitor in those categories.
This doesn't refute the possibility of Iran securing its future.PantheraTigris2 said:
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
If that's the anology.... let's continue isolation! I don't mind Nixon, but his starting the One China Policy was terrible for Taiwan (or Chinese Taipei as they came to the olympics as).Marla_Singer said:
But I do think we need to warm up with Iran. Not politically, but culturally. Their youth are eroding away the power of the fundamentalists as they have fun in their underground cultures. They want to be Muslims, they want to cover up--but stylish and not fanatically.
If we put too much pressure on Iran (like airstriking their nuclear reactor), it would cause a nationalist movement among the youth to support their leaders, undoing the decades of improving conditions in the nation.
Sanaz
Gorilla Joe
I am not an apologist, I am pro-Iran. There is a difference. My family is Iranian, and most still live in Tehran. And the current US government is a larger worldwide threat than the current Iranian government, as bad as that is. And hopefully that will change. Don't forget that the US strongly supported the Iran with the Shah, and that was a seriously bad government. This government was in response to that one, and by the religious standards of the area, it is a better government (again, as bad as it is). The US also supported Iraq in a war against Iran in the 80's, and won't be forgiven. To broadly classify Iran as the bad guys and the US as the good guys is just incorrect. And as long as the US is supporting the Saudi government, and talks of good and bad are worthless (Iran is not worse than Saudi, as far as oppression and human rights violations are concerned).SeleucusNicator said:
The best thing about the US is the constitution and checks and balances in government, so that when we get a nutty president like the current one in power they can be removed if they step too far out of bounds (and this one has come close, like they all do). I would love to see Iran with a constitution, the sweeping powers removed from the clerics, and the elections become legitimate. Unfortunately, the revolution was in reaction to the problems with the Shah, and what they got was really no better than what they had. The US is not innocent in the current middle east situation at all (and I haven't even mentioned the unilateral support of Israel, which can be argued forever).
When I say that I want Iran to have the chance to succeed as a nation, it is not so they can drop nukes on Israel. It is so they can advance as a society (although I think it's a horrible way to "advance"). The US has proven that nukes are a deterrent to invasion and occupation. Iran is in a position of needing to rush their program in secret before the US and Israel can attack, for their own self defense. That's just sad, and reflects very poorly on the current US foreign policy.
Is Iran innocent? No way. But neither is the US. I just happen to have good reason to look equally at both sides of the problem.
amadeus
Apply directly to the forehead
The amount of Ayatollah sympathizers in here is enough to make me vomit. You people are seriously ready to trust these nutcases with nuclear weapons?
What is going on here?
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Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
What is going on here?
Moderator Action: Warned for trolling
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
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Actually, oil is not the ideal fuel for electricity generation. The beauty of oil is that it is a transportable energy source - which makes it a more valuable energy source than (say) natural gas. Economically, it does make more sense for Iran to sell the oil than burn it themselves, especially given the rising oil price / scarcity.PantheraTigris2 said:
Sanaz
Gorilla Joe
I don't trust anyone with nuclear weapons. This includes the US, China, and Russia. Trying to keep them away from everyone the US doesn't like is not necessarily the answer. Stopping a country from joining a "club" whose membership all but assures their national security (just look at N. Korea) is a hard sell, and it probably won't work anyway. It definitely won't be good for Iran to be open for attack by the US, right? It hasn't been all that pleasant for the Iraqi people, and their government was much worse than Iran's.rmsharpe said:
And let's be clear - no one has said they are in favor of the current government. Not many Iranians are, other than those who lived under the Shah or those who directly benefit from it. But that doesn't mean that the progress of the country needs to be stopped. And I do not think that having nukes is "progressive", just necessary for progress to be had when Israel and the US have their sights set on you.
Uncle Sam
Educated Redneck
Marla_Singer said:
Yeah, we buddied up to China because they could compete with us military. Iran is no slouch but they couldn't beat us in a fight. Therefore we don't need to be friendly, we need to lean all over them and hope to intimidate them into abondoning nuclear weapons instead of having to forcefully stop them.
rmsharpe: I know man, but regardless of the CFC popular opinion our government will still step in and take action against Iran if necessary, so don't worry too much.
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
Great..now we are the bad guys...
I think one of the greatest foreign policy errors of the past was backing dictatorial regimes. The enemy of my enemy is not neccessarily my friend.
I think one of the greatest foreign policy errors of the past was backing dictatorial regimes. The enemy of my enemy is not neccessarily my friend.
Sanaz
Gorilla Joe
Of the past and present, unfortunately.Sword_Of_Geddon said:
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
I hope not....Our men and women in uniform didn't die to put another scumbag dictator into power. Bush said there would be Democracy in Iraq, if he was lying he isn't the man I thought he was.
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
The thing is that you invaded a Shia country in majority called Iraq. In doing so, the US became less dependant of their alliance with Saudi Arabia, and you became actually more dependant about having good relations with Iran.Uncle Sam said:
It's sure that if the relations between Iran and the US remains as cold as they are, Iraq has no chance to be solvable. Simply because the majority of the Iraqis are actually pro-Iranian.
So yes, you do share the same interests as Iran, this is more and more true.
Sanaz
Gorilla Joe
Unfortunately, they are still dying every day. And I am quite sure he isn't. (But I hate the guy, so my opinion means little...).Sword_Of_Geddon said:
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
I hope your wrong.
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
Because we aren't fighting to win the war. We are fighting to "win the hearts and minds of Iraqis" and thats not going so well.
