I think most players would probably agree that on a Pan/STD/Deity/STD map the proper start is Monument/Scout/Granary or Scout/Monument/Granary.
My question has long been, which one is better or best?? Is one better for a certain VC??
I did some work below trying to figure it out, but basically, it works out that you either get your first Border Expansion & first Social Policy 3 turns earlier, or you get 6-7 extra turns of your scout wandering around. Over the first 20 turns, I found that this translates to about 2-3 extra ruins, civs & cs met, or natural wonders found.
So is it better to get BE & SP 3 turns faster or, potentially, 1 more ruin & 1 more civ/cs met?
Details, if interested:
Now, granted, there are a ton of variables... So I played 20 turns of an Alex/Pan/Std/Deity/Std w/ monument first. Marked down the turns for each building and each BE & SP. Then I played the same map again with the scout first and my units following the same path as the first game. If I got a culture ruin I restarted and passed right by it on the restart. Did this about 5 or 6 times and found the above results.
Some other considerations...
- +4 production starts could cause up to 4 turns difference in BE & SP while +6 production starts could cause a bit less than 3 turns difference on average.
- Spain's wonder bonus probably puts the extra scout turns over the top in importance
- America's sight bonus may also put the scout strategy over since they are more effective
- Finding Civs, CS states, & Natural wonders in 20 turns vs. 26 or 27 turns is probably only going to matter in a small amount of games... Maybe 15 or 30 gold total.
- Ruins vary in importance...
- A tech ruin basically gives 38 beakers or 10 turns of science or since most capitols start at +4 beakers. Maybe 60 if you are wicked lucky and get like Calendar after already researching pottery first...
- A culture ruins gives 20 culture, which pops your first CS starting at turn 6. (w/ monument I saw usually turn 13 and w/ scout I saw usually turn 16 or 17...)
- A gold ruin gives about 50 gold, which translates to 1/2 a worker, or 1/4 of an archer buy later... 10 to 12 turns of normal gold production. maybe 2 or 3 turns quicker than just finding CS or selling embassies.
- A Pop ruin gives a pop person. The bonus this provides varies wildly. Mostly though just speeds production & gold by 2 to 3 turns max...
- A faith ruin basically gives a pantheon. The bonus depends but it's probably substantial.
- A map ruin and a barb ruin are basically useless in this study
So. It boils down to this for me. 3 turns ahead in Border Expansion & Social Policy every single game. Vs. 1 or 2 extra ruins of 38 beakers, 20 culture, 50 gold, a pop, a pantheon, a blank, or a blank.
I don't have the time or wherewithall to do a cost analysis to find out the mathematical answer so I open it up to you all...
Oh and I did this 4 times on marathon for 60 turns and found 6-11 turn sooner BE & SP, with the scout route finding 4-5 extra ruins, civ & cs met, & NWs...
My question has long been, which one is better or best?? Is one better for a certain VC??
I did some work below trying to figure it out, but basically, it works out that you either get your first Border Expansion & first Social Policy 3 turns earlier, or you get 6-7 extra turns of your scout wandering around. Over the first 20 turns, I found that this translates to about 2-3 extra ruins, civs & cs met, or natural wonders found.
So is it better to get BE & SP 3 turns faster or, potentially, 1 more ruin & 1 more civ/cs met?
Details, if interested:
Now, granted, there are a ton of variables... So I played 20 turns of an Alex/Pan/Std/Deity/Std w/ monument first. Marked down the turns for each building and each BE & SP. Then I played the same map again with the scout first and my units following the same path as the first game. If I got a culture ruin I restarted and passed right by it on the restart. Did this about 5 or 6 times and found the above results.
Some other considerations...
- +4 production starts could cause up to 4 turns difference in BE & SP while +6 production starts could cause a bit less than 3 turns difference on average.
- Spain's wonder bonus probably puts the extra scout turns over the top in importance
- America's sight bonus may also put the scout strategy over since they are more effective
- Finding Civs, CS states, & Natural wonders in 20 turns vs. 26 or 27 turns is probably only going to matter in a small amount of games... Maybe 15 or 30 gold total.
- Ruins vary in importance...
- A tech ruin basically gives 38 beakers or 10 turns of science or since most capitols start at +4 beakers. Maybe 60 if you are wicked lucky and get like Calendar after already researching pottery first...
- A culture ruins gives 20 culture, which pops your first CS starting at turn 6. (w/ monument I saw usually turn 13 and w/ scout I saw usually turn 16 or 17...)
- A gold ruin gives about 50 gold, which translates to 1/2 a worker, or 1/4 of an archer buy later... 10 to 12 turns of normal gold production. maybe 2 or 3 turns quicker than just finding CS or selling embassies.
- A Pop ruin gives a pop person. The bonus this provides varies wildly. Mostly though just speeds production & gold by 2 to 3 turns max...
- A faith ruin basically gives a pantheon. The bonus depends but it's probably substantial.
- A map ruin and a barb ruin are basically useless in this study
So. It boils down to this for me. 3 turns ahead in Border Expansion & Social Policy every single game. Vs. 1 or 2 extra ruins of 38 beakers, 20 culture, 50 gold, a pop, a pantheon, a blank, or a blank.
I don't have the time or wherewithall to do a cost analysis to find out the mathematical answer so I open it up to you all...
Oh and I did this 4 times on marathon for 60 turns and found 6-11 turn sooner BE & SP, with the scout route finding 4-5 extra ruins, civ & cs met, & NWs...