The Quest for Immortality

[The Pilgrim]

Hi, everybody!
First of all let me apologize for my bad english. It's like my fourth language, so please be patient with me.
I'm a very long-time lurker of these forums. I've read a lot and learnt a lot. Therefore I wouldn't call myself a complete newbie with BtS, since I beat the game on Emperor a few times. But the highest levels still are challenging for me. The other problem (or maybe it's the same one) - I'm not much of a warmonger. I find it a lot easier to gain space or AP victory, than conquest or domination. Typically at the beginning I set an initial goal, manage to eliminate one of the neighbors and hurt another. After that I make an attempt to rebuild my economy and clean the mess a little bit, but in no time find myself in the heat of the science race which I have no chance to win. Obviously I'm doing something wrong. I can seed blood-thirsty ideology amongst my people, but can't push it all the way through to the finish line.

So I've decided to "get out of the closet" and ask for help. I will appreciate every piece of advice, tip and critique you have. I'm also kind of lazy with MM, despite I know it's critical at immortal level. Anyway, feel free to scold me for this, too.
And of course, thanks in advance!

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Game Settings

Civ version: BtS 3.17 with latest Dresden's/Solver's unofficial patch (0.21);
Map: Fractal, standard size;
Speed: Epic (I prefer normal, but give us some slack there);
Temperate climate, medium sea level, 6 random rivals;
Difficulty: Immortal;
Victory conditions: all enabled (but with high preference for conquest/domination);
LMA is the only advanced option checked;

As for a nation and leader - random again - and the winner is:




Starting position

I have to admit, I love Willem. I love his traits and for me he's one of the strongest leaders... But when I see map like this one I automatically think about early cottage spamming and Pyramids. This is great, if it doesn’t prevent from you killing the rivals or at least weaken them enough, so they won’t be a problem in the future. And yet I know already I'll struggle to balance between developing and war. Hopefully, with your help I'll see the light!



The save attached, for those who want to shadow.

 

[Joshua368]

Pyramids mainly help by giving you early access to representation. While still handy, if you plan on running mostly cottages they aren't really worth the hammers.

Anyway, you're creative. Use the stone to build the Great Wall quickly, maybe before your second city. Then REX freely whereever you want and use cottages to finance it. Cut off the AI and settle good spots next to them, watch out as they expand real fast on immortal. If Stonehenge is still around by the time you get stone hooked up (not terribly likely, but depends on other AIs) you might want to grab it as well for really strong borders.

Move the warrior before setting, see if you can't find some decent food. (your current spot is really food-poor) It might be worth moving 1NE to trade the cow for some floodplains, but you need to look around there first.

 

[Babibo]

I would consider settling on the plains hill 1N, for the +1 and the river. Based on what I see here, you lack food. You should move the warrior 1SW to see if you'd miss any food resource in the south if you moved as I advised.

The strategy for this game should be straightforward, since you have stone in the BFC. Certainly go Great Wall/Pyramids. The decision mainly depends on the land around.

 

[Babibo]

Aaaah someone was faster than me.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Thanks guys for your quick response!
I definitely will move the warrior first. NE to check out the FPs, or maybe S to see what's on the grass 2S1E from his current location. It can be a food resource or a metal/horses (but we won't find out for now). If there is something eatable I'll consider settling on spices.
On the other hand, I have kind of feeling (it can be wrong) we are at the southern part of the map. In this case I think I shoud move north.

Pyramids mainly help by giving you early access to representation. While still handy, if you plan on running mostly cottages they aren't really worth the hammers.

Many cottages mean many FPs and grasslands which mean many citizens. Representation gives you a lot of happy faces and they are extremely handy since we lack them. But the truth is by your side. They do demand a lot of hammers. At this point I start to believe GW is preferable.

If there is no other food around, I'll probably follow your suggestion and trade FPs for cow. It makes sence also cause we need AH to utilize it. Instead we can farm the FPs and head straight to the Wall with Mining-BW-Masonry. Chop second worker and with two of them to chop the wall itself.

 

[Joshua368]

Many cottages mean many FPs and grasslands which mean many citizens. Representation gives you a lot of happy faces and they are extremely handy since we lack them. But the truth is by your side. They do demand a lot of hammers. At this point I start to believe GW is preferable.

Oh you're absolutely right that you'll want more happiness to work more citizens. However without many specialists teching Monarchy for hereditary rule should work just fine. Expecially if you hope to REX out a lot of early cities, as representation will only help five.

 

[Supr49er]

Welcome to the Forums The Pilgrim.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Oh you're absolutely right that you'll want more happiness to work more citizens. However without many specialists teching Monarchy for hereditary rule should work just fine. Expecially if you hope to REX out a lot of early cities, as representation will only help five.

HR requires a lot of beakers too. Playing with non spiritual leader I usually neglect religious techs till I can trade them. Besides, I hate to keep troops in cities. It seems such a waste of hammers and maintenance costs for me. Anyway, first things first. So far, I moved the warrior and found... nothing.



North from settler are plains with forests, more forests to the south and plains again to the west. Settling 1NE sounds like the only reasonable step right now. 8 from two farmed FPs better than 3 from single cow.
BTW, taking a closer look at the bottom of the map I spotted the tundra. So south it is...

Welcome to the Forums The Pilgrim.

Thanks! Glad to be here.

 

[JBossch]

The mids is, imo, compatible with a cottaged capital running bureaucracy, assuming you are focusing on specialists in your other cities. Hopefully the surrounding area has more food as your cap looks to be lacking.

Move warrior SW to check those tiles for food then move settler N if none. I would hesitate to ditch the cows as it is a good tile. There is a pretty decent chance you have food to the north.

EDIT: Oops, too late! GL anyway.

 

[futurehermit]

Looks like a good ol' BTS production capital. Low-food, lots of forests, and high production.

1NE would trade 1 plains cow for 2 floodplains.

Kind of hard to grow and develop with only a plains cow and some grassland farms for food...

 

[futurehermit]

There is a pretty decent chance you have food to the north.

I don't think there is food in the north.

 

[Joshua368]

The religious techs -- mysticism, meditation, priesthood -- are amoung the cheapest beaker-wise in the game. Once you get past the nessecities it will not take a large sacrifice to pick them up, and trading for them will not be costly (though you should take the WFYABTA limit into account). Priesthood is so cheap but I've even been able to successfully beg for it from pleased civs before.

On top of the that, the AI loves taking that route (and Monarchy itself) and trading for it is very easy. I've found monarchy is one of the few techs that most AIs will trade even when they have a monopoly on it. I'll admit I fairly rarely self-research monarchy because trading for it is so easy. Still it's not excessively expensive so if you really need it you'll have nothing to worry about.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Joshua368, apparently, it's all about personal experience. Maybe AIs just hate me, but I can't recall even a single time they agreed to give up Monarchy before it loses its charm. So it's cool you're here, cause I'm used just to those things I'm used to. It's allways good to get a different point of view.
Okay, let's delay this Hereditary Rule fans vs Representation fans debate for a little bit.
For now food is the very top priority. It's turn Zero and I'm already starving!

 

[lilnev]

You've been forest-spammed. That means you can expect four land resources, including a hidden resource on the unforested hill. Thus, your start location contains just the plains Cow for food.

I say it's time for a walkabout. 2 NE or 3E of your current spot claim at least 3 flood plains while keeping the hidden resource and enough forests in your fat cross. Starting with Ag and multiple floodplains, you might even consider Wheel-Pottery as your first two tech. (Mining-BW while farming one of the floodplains would be safe too).

Two or three turns is a small price to pay to have enough food for your capital.

 

[ABigCivFan]

I would have sent that warrior 1SW to check out land to the south. I think you will get more river tiles if settle 1S and maybe more grassland river tiles for cottages.

Tech wise go: AH-Mining-BW

Can you try to post full size pics?

 

[royal62184]

With resource bubbles enabled as well

 

[Joshua368]

Joshua368, apparently, it's all about personal experience. Maybe AIs just hate me, but I can't recall even a single time they agreed to give up Monarchy before it loses its charm. So it's cool you're here, cause I'm used just to those things I'm used to. It's allways good to get a different point of view.
Okay, let's delay this Hereditary Rule fans vs Representation fans debate for a little bit.
For now food is the very top priority. It's turn Zero and I'm already starving!

Oh I'm a huge representation fan, it's probably my favorite civic in the game. It just doesn't look like it'll be worth the cost on this map, doesn't seem likely that you'll be running a lot of specialists.

Based on current information, I would certainly recommend trying to get those floodplains in whereever you settle. With agriculture it'll give your worker something to do until bronze working.

 

[Artichoker]

What is the yield for settling on Spice if you're Financial?

If I'm not mistaken, you might get some bonus commerce or food for doing so.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Sorry, guys, I'm slow today.

Turn 0
Moved the settler NE on the hill and very typically found nothing. There are only forests and more forests.

Turn 1
Warrior keeps scouting and revealing nothing...

I desided to settle down and not searching for luck which is far from being guaranteed.

Here is my capital:



Coast is 2NW1N from the city (1N from "Coast" sign).
Tundra is 1S from "Tundra" sign. This is the main reason I did't move to the south.

Regarding the tech path, as I mentioned before, Mining-BW-Masonry is what I'm thinking about. I also need to squeeze in the Wheel. Probably after BW or maybe before. Have to calculate all the turns cry. I don't want worker to be idle.

P.S. The shots are full-screened, just click the thumbs.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Oh I'm a huge representation fan, it's probably my favorite civic in the game. It just doesn't look like it'll be worth the cost on this map, doesn't seem likely that you'll be running a lot of specialists.

It doesn't seem likely that I'll need much happiness either.

What is the yield for settling on Spice if you're Financial?

If I'm not mistaken, you might get some bonus commerce or food for doing so.

I believe you get one extra for settling on spices and FIN trait gives you another one. 2 , 1 , 3 in total.