The ranged units funnel

[Schuesseled]

@OP

Naval units in renaisance to later become vastly more useful as an additional ranged unit due to increasing speeds and the ability to travel across the ocean, there is also a wide variety of modern naval units.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

True numbers show that there is a wide variety in the ancient era, thus allowing you to gain access to ranged unit without always going for one teach path, tihs slims down in medieval and reniassance but then in industrial and continuing on into modern era you gain access to a wide variety of ranged units to fully access many different end game strategems.

 

[Abremms]

If they did add snipers, i think it would be an interesting mechanic if the snipers didn't do direct damage like other units. instead, they should do 1 (at most) damage, but decrease the combat strength of thier target by say 20% for that turn. that way, you simulate a sniper taking out an armies officers without having to make the "one sniper team took out a whole army?" leap.

 

[BjoernLars]

I was noticing that too in my research of the new units.

I think that Grenadiers and Mortar Squads would be some good "range, non-seige" units in mid-to-late game.

 

[Stefanskantine]

I forsee mortar type units of an renaissance or early modern flavor in the first x-pack.

 

[Ahriman]

Renaissance/early-modern mortars would be a siege unit.

What makes more sense for mortars is ww2-style man-portable mortars.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

[deleted bad idea]
Actually, bad idea, could lead to massing Xbows for getting that new Ability.

Possibly just a 'conversion' at least of the Accuracy+Barrage Promotions into Shock+Drill ones when upgrading into a Rifleman (Range would still be useless, but that's probably OK)

 

[Ahriman]

And by doing so you might severely mess up the combat engine and confuse the AI.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

And by doing so you might severely mess up the combat engine and confuse the AI.

First or 2nd idea... as you can see I cut the first idea.

 

[Silverwave]

@OP

Naval units in renaisance to later become vastly more useful as an additional ranged unit due to increasing speeds and the ability to travel across the ocean, there is also a wide variety of modern naval units.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

True numbers show that there is a wide variety in the ancient era, thus allowing you to gain access to ranged unit without always going for one teach path, tihs slims down in medieval and reniassance but then in industrial and continuing on into modern era you gain access to a wide variety of ranged units to fully access many different end game strategems.

Actually, I'm more concerned about the conversion from medieval to renaissance (principally the conversion from ranged crossbow to non-ranged gunpowder unit) than lacking modern ranged units. As I said, airforce do make up for this lack at modern era.

Yes, navy is ranged. But you can't possibly bring navy into all fights, they are more costly and there's still not much of them at renaissance era : caravel and frigate (and caravel is very weak). Also, renaissance era artillery (canon) is almost double the power than renaissance era boats (though canon require setting up). Let's just say that navy can support your attacks from time to time, but it's definetly not replacing ground range units.

 

[Ahriman]

First or 2nd idea... as you can see I cut the first idea.

Check the time stamps. First idea.

Converting promotions is also very messy though.

The cleanest solution by far is to force crossbows to upgrade to cannons.
I hope this is what they've done.

 

[Silverwave]

Check the time stamps. First idea.


The cleanest solution by far is to force crossbows to upgrade to cannons.
I hope this is what they've done.

I sure hope so too! But probably not. It just doesn't seems right, and artillery cost way more than ground ranged units (more than twice the price! 120 for crossbow, 250 for canon)), the cost for upgrading them would be too high.
Anyway, crossbow into musket really is a natural extension. It's just that gunpowder aren't ranged anymore that causes the problem. But then, I don't think they should be. Really, I don't see a solution, except I would have added another unit (like someone said early, musket = close range, rifles = long range).

 

[Seven05]

Well a number of those promotions (for xbows) are specifically for ranged bombardment.

Has anyone actually posted every promotion available to Crossbowmen/Archers and what those promotions do? Ranged units aren't all Siege units so just because a siege unit gets promotions that only affect ranged combat doesn't mean that all ranged units have access to the same promotions.

 

[Pwnzerfaust]

Kind of strikes me as silly that archers will be ranged, but riflemen won't. Rifles have longer effective range than bows, last time I checked.

 

[Schuesseled]

All ranged units get ranged promotions.

There are some promotions that are available to mixed types, but each type of unit has its own unique promotions

Kind of strikes me as silly that archers will be ranged, but riflemen won't. Rifles have longer effective range than bows, last time I checked.

It's about short range and long-range

In the early eras, only archery, naval and siege units are long range, everything else is melee, short range

In the later eras, units using small arms, i.e. riflemen are considered short range, and anything that can shoot over a couple of miles is considered long range. And aircraft is somewhat of a hybrid.

 

[Booshaka]

My idea. The Renaissance could have had pikemen for the front line melée unit and musketmen as the ranged unit for the period. Of course these musketmen would be made to fit the ranged model of weak melée strong ranged attack.

Historically it fits, in the late medieval and Renaissance period pikemen formations had become the core of most European armies, which also had musketmen mixed in, the whole "push of the pike" idea. The only problem is if swords turn to pikes and then to rifles. and crossbows to muskets then to what? Rifles too I guess, so I don't know.

I think this would be better cause it would make the gap between ranged non siege units and aircraft smaller by extending the melée unit with range unit support armies into a later age

 

[Escalate]

So the range-base promotion such as logistic, barrage, etc. is a kind of waste if you upgrade your Xbow to musket or rifleman?

How could they replace thier promotion or just lost it away? It seem unfair to me.

 

[Jaybe]

Is there an upgrade XP cap (10 in civ4) in civ5? I don't recall it being covered.

IF there is not, then losing ranged promotions when converting to melee would be a reasonable sacrifice.

 

[Silverwave]

Has anyone actually posted every promotion available to Crossbowmen/Archers and what those promotions do? Ranged units aren't all Siege units so just because a siege unit gets promotions that only affect ranged combat doesn't mean that all ranged units have access to the same promotions.

Look there :
http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ5_promotions.html

 

[krunsh]

Would be great if ranged promotion would be ''sold'' and reduce the cost of upgrading to rifleman.

 

[Schuesseled]

Is there an upgrade XP cap (10 in civ4) in civ5? I don't recall it being covered.

IF there is not, then losing ranged promotions when converting to melee would be a reasonable sacrifice.

Reasonable?

No not really, you lost a lot of time and investment, it would be a much better idea to keep em as longbowmen if they can't upgrade to ranged units.

FYI guys mobility doesn't fit in the ranged category, seeing as how it is a naval and melee promotion