The Red Banner of the revolution......dead or reborned?

[Homie]

Jandor, I don't see how this explains why people would go to work. It is quite different to help put out a fire and to drag your ass to work.

I was saying that people can refuse to work in capitalism as well as communism so the whole 'what if epople refused to work' argument is dumb.

Yes, but the differance is that if he didn't go to work in a capitalist world he would starve or have to mooch off his family or friends, therefore he would most likely rather go to work, any work!
Whereas in a communist world he would be paid equally even if he didn't go to work, so therefore he wouldn't be so motivated to go to work. Please reply to this Davo. Or any other communist if you can.

There would be excess jobs becuase there is over 6 billion people in this world!!!

Yes there is, but would there be less jobs available if the world was communist? How do you figure?

 

[ComradeDavo]

Originally posted by Homie
Jandor, I don't see how this explains why people would go to work. It is quite different to help put out a fire and to drag your ass to work.


Yes, but the differance is that if he didn't go to work in a capitalist world he would starve or have to mooch off his family or friends, therefore he would most likely rather go to work, any work!
Whereas in a communist world he would be paid equally even if he didn't go to work, so therefore he wouldn't be so motivated to go to work. Please reply to this Davo. Or any other communist if you can.

Yes there is, but would there be less jobs available if the world was communist? How do you figure?

If someone refused to work in the communist world i invison they would still get food and drink etc but would get like the worst choice of housing etc and be on the bottom of teh list for stuff (tickets to sports events for example)

If the whole world was coomunist then eventually the whole world would be very advanced etc, so machines could do an awfull lot of jobs.

 

[Homie]

If the whole world was coomunist then eventually the whole world would be very advanced etc

Hehe. lol.
Seriously, I think that research and progress would suffer in a communist world because there wouldn't be enough (surely some but not that many) people who wants to dedicate their lives and work harder than their less talented neighbour at a more difficult job without getting fame and FORTUNE.

If someone refused to work in the communist world i invison they would still get food and drink etc but would get like the worst choice of housing etc and be on the bottom of teh list for stuff (tickets to sports events for example)

It is just my opinion that working should not be a choice, but a necessity.

 

[stalin006]

well yes, that kind of communism is a complete failure, the only way it works is in nature, look at the antz!!!!!! they ahve mastered the communist ideology they all work for the good of their whole society.
it is human nature to try for more, so it should be given, in my version of the socialist utopia, workers who try harder and do harder jobs get luxuries and nice stuff, but still teh whole society lives in a collective way, free education and health care, never give too much luxuries and "free speech" as a crappy materialistic society who eat crap fast food and watches reality shows develops

 

[Homie]

I am a capitalist and for free education and health care. Do you consider yourself a lefty stalin006? Because wanting a few services to be free and controlled by the government does not make you a communist.

 

[stalin006]

yes, capitalism does work, but i prefer one that is under high govt standards and controls (not in production but so that things like worldcom and enron doesnt happen) also there is free health care and education, among others, i dont know what that ideology is...........can u help homie?

 

[Greadius]

Originally posted by ComradeDavo
If someone refused to work in the communist world i invison they would still get food and drink etc but would get like the worst choice of housing etc and be on the bottom of teh list for stuff.

You're too idealistic about the ease with which a surplus/shortage is created, especially if any of it involves centralized planning.
Worst housing? Limited food & drink? Minimum needs barely met? Sounds like the implementation of communism in the real world.

Originally posted by stalin006
well yes, that kind of communism is a complete failure, the only way it works is in nature, look at the antz!!!!!! they ahve mastered the communist ideology they all work for the good of their whole society.

When I can lift 50 times my body weight I'll start considering politics like an ant.
Unless I get to be the queen

Originally posted by stalin006
"free speech" as a crappy materialistic society who eat crap fast food and watches reality shows develops

Gosh. Its no American I know in a nutshell.
How can anyone still generalize Americans? I know it is scary, but most American's don't patronize fast food places. More American's voted for Al Gore in the last presidential election than watch reality TV.

Originally posted by stalin006
i prefer one that is under high govt standards and controls (not in production but so that things like worldcom and enron doesnt happen) also there is free health care and education, among others, i dont know what that ideology is

Dirty, rotten, stinkin', pinko, commie bastard, of course

 

[stalin006]

thanks greadious...........i feel so much beter .......i guess ill go get a red flag and spy for china.....by the way i dont think it would be fun to be the queen ant, stay in one place depositing eggs.......

 

[ComradeDavo]

You're too idealistic about the ease with which a surplus/shortage is created, especially if any of it involves centralized planning.
Worst housing? Limited food & drink? Minimum needs barely met? Sounds like the implementation of communism in the real world.

No i'm not, i've said countless times that it would take many years (probably hundreds) to move from socialism into communism.

 

[MrPresident]

No i'm not, i've said countless times that it would take many years (probably hundreds) to move from socialism into communism.

How do you know that it is even possible to move from socialism to communism?

"free speech" as a crappy materialistic society who eat crap fast food and watches reality shows develops

What is wrong with a crappy materialistic society if that is what society wants to be?

not in production but so that things like worldcom and enron doesnt happen

Do you mean a system that eliminates all mistakes?

 

[stalin006]

eliminates all mistakes? no, enron and others werent a mistake, they were greedy CEOs wwho didnt careda bot the thousands of workers.

what is wrong w/ a crappy materialistic society? it expands to other developed nations who still have great traditions like japan, also this means taht they really dont care about hte environment (a few are serious about it) just getting (some of the time needless) stuff

 

[ComradeDavo]

How do you know that it is even possible to move from socialism to communism?

I don't.

Likewise how can someone know that communism 'won't work'.

 

[Greadius]

Originally posted by stalin006
eliminates all mistakes? no, enron and others werent a mistake, they were greedy CEOs wwho didnt careda bot the thousands of workers.

I wouldn't call Enron an efficient or effective industry. It was a bad business model, and the powers that be tried everything they could to cook the books enough to hide that fact.
They still collapsed. Proves you can't fight market forces.

If Enron was a state-owned industry Ken Lay would still be in charge, and Enron would be chugging along swallowing billions of tax dollars.

Originally posted by stalin006
what is wrong w/ a crappy materialistic society? it expands to other developed nations who still have great traditions like japan

Not a Japan expert, but I've gotten the impression their popular culture is as materialistic and shallow as ours.

 

[Switch625]

Originally posted by stalin006
what is wrong w/ a crappy materialistic society? it expands to other developed nations who still have great traditions like japan, also this means taht they really dont care about hte environment (a few are serious about it) just getting (some of the time needless) stuff

If Japan wanted to, they would stay with their traditions and not adopt the "crappy materialistic society." What I don't get is why people think American culture is some sort of malevolent intelligent force. It isn't. It's something that people adopt because they want to. If they didn't want to, they wouldn't. Don't blame us for other people abandoning their own traditions to adopt our lifestyle. That is their responsibility, nobody is holding a gun to their heads.

 

[stalin006]

not really *bring in the japan experts*