The Rise & Fall of The Mughals ~ v2 ~

[Civinator]

Posting from uni, but no doubt the King Arab unit is used as a king unit for some civ in the scen.

Just a guess: These units are flagged as king units in the editor. If you look at these preplaced units on the map, you see in the editor, that they are set to random with the "king-tactic" as one of these random possibilities. Is there a random chance, that these units can use "king-tactics", even when the regicide mode is turned off ?? If you want be sure to exclude this possibility, may be you should remove the "king flag" from these units in the editor.

Btw, the fakir unit is such a nice unit! I gave it an appropriate attack sound in my mod and the enslave ability (to monks that can be "sacrificed" = used for the cultural benefit of the nation). May be this unit gets stealth attack too.

 

[silver 2039]

I just downloaded this. This is a great improvemnt over the previous version. I'm trying it out as the Mughals I also downloaded the soundtrack and gonna check it out now.

I attacked the Rajputs early on and suffered setbacks at Ajmir. The Defenders stubbornly killed my Mughal Cavalry but my Shia Fighters seem to do fine against them. Also I notice I can't build any Shia Fighters even though I have iron. Ajmir feel fairly rapidly despite that and my forces sourrounded Bikaner.

British declared war on Vijaynagar. Its cool to see the colonial people do something now. I also signed up Ahmdanagr against the Rajputs. They are putting up stubborn resistance. Most fitting...

 

[Blue Monkey]

Btw, the fakir unit is such a nice unit! I gave it an appropriate attack sound in my mod and the enslave ability (to monks that can be "sacrificed" = used for the cultural benefit of the nation). May be this unit gets stealth attack too.

With those mods, maybe the graphics could be changed a little (dark robes) and it could be a new unit - a Kali-worshipping Thugee.

 

[The Last Conformist]

@silver: You can't build Shia Fighters because they upgrade to Persian Musketmen, and the Mughals start with the prerequisite for the later, viz. Gunpowder.

 

[7ronin]

The further adventures of 7Ronin the pirate.

1717 Once again the Safavids declare war on me; this is getting boring.

1718 The boys are grumbling. There is no glory to be had just sitting on Pirate Island. We load up the fleet and set sail for Ceylon!

1721 We land at Jaffna.

1722 We capture and destroy Jaffna. Orang Laut is killed storming the walls.

1724 As we are withdrawing from the Ceylonese coast we attacked by the French fleet. We are victorious in the Naval Battle of Cape Jaffna, sending the entire enemy fleet to the bottom: six ships of the line and two galleons. Our losses are fairly light but we lose two ships carrying some of our precious troops. We sail back home killing two pirate prowlers along the way.

1738 Some more fleetless civs declare war on me. The advisor tells me to "create more cities." hah! My economy is finally back on track.

1748 Plague strikes Canmorta. The boys are saying that it's the "Jaffna Curse." As I rebuild my strength, I wonder where to strike again. The Dutch coast, Ceylon again? My enemies fear the pirate scourge. This game is going to go on for a long time. Why haven't the Mughals and the Safavids gone at it yet?

 

[Rambuchan]

Civinator: A good point there about the kings. They seem to behave alright but that's noted for next time I do an upgrade. Thanks.

silver 2039: Note that each civ now has something they need to organise before the game gets into full swing. In the case of the Mughals, they need to hook up their source of saltpeter. That's why it's looking funny for you, you were too impatient and didn't check your situation out properly. Reminds me a bit of your posting on version 1 actually

Blue Monkey: Nice idea there. I'm not yet able to do any unit creation or colouration myself. But there are a number of units around that could have stepped in for a Hindu holyman. Is it true that the Thugees were such nasty folk? Or were they just Kali worshippers? Everything I know about them revolves around how such stereotypes played into British propaganda to demonise certain Hindu groups c.late c19th. Eitherway, it's a nice idea and well worth considering for an upgrade.

TLC: Correct!

7Ronin: Ahoy there me hearty! You've been travelling the seas and plunderin' some dubloons I see. Arrr! And you be sinking the big bad French ships!! Arrr, that be good!

- Why didn't you take the rest of Ceylon?
- Those declarations of war from distant civs can be used to take them out the game courtesy of your neighbours (a la the 9 city elimination).
- The Mughals seem a little reluctant to go warmongering of their own according. They seem to require coaxing into it through diplomacy. But be wary of waking the bear!

 

[7ronin]

Why didn't you take the rest of Ceylon?

It's hard when you don't have any artillery. And it turns out that the Ceylonese were much tougher than I had seen them in any previous game.
So I decided it was better just to destroy their city, make a nuisance of myself, and depart relatively intact.

Diplomacy wise, no one seems willing to listen to me.

I am happy to report that I am not at the bottom of the pile. I have three cities whereas Ceylon, Bijapur, and the EIC only have two each and Nepal, Rajput, and Ahmadnagar have ceased to exist. I just wish that the Safavids and the Mughals would go at it.

 

[Mentat]

First of all, its a great Scenario. If there wasn't TAM, this would be my prime joice.

I had a great time playing as Ahmadnagar. From near anihilation to finally dominance, I faced all on my road to victory.

As for feeback, a few things were odd.

1.) The military academy doesn't allow to build armies. I am controlling more then 30 cities, but I am limited to two old army regiments. Even when I kill those old armies, its not possible to build a new one.

2.) The Mughal Empire behaved odd with one of its possible leaders. He basicaly never left the spot where he was created, and was untouched even by enemies, until I dispatched him together with the Mughals, about 20 Years later.

3.) I am aware that some Civs build an incredible number of troops. But though it is challenging this way, it gets somewhat irritating. E.g. the safayids move their 100 and somewhat horse-artillery units through my territory, never even touching any of my cities, eventhough, we are really not on friendly terms. I wonder how fast I would loose against those guys, though the crown will be build in advance to this experiment.

 

[7ronin]

The Mughal Empire behaved odd with one of its possible leaders. He basicaly never left the spot where he was created, and was untouched even by enemies, until I dispatched him together with the Mughals, about 20 Years later.

It's just not the Mughals. The AI doesn't seem to know what to do with the leaders as they all seem to remain parked in their original locations. Bad for the AI but good for the human player since several of the leaders have amphibious attack capabilities.

 

[Mentat]

@7ronin: Do you mean the King-Units or the Leaders, that are created out of extensive victories? I wasn't aware, that the Leaders had any function but making up army regiments, giving a nice research boost or finishing buildings in one turn.

Regarding the military academy, I can safely say, it doesn't work as it is. By now I have 4 armies, all created through combat (leaders). I was definitely not able to build any. I will check the .biq.

Edit:
Result: The armyunit was not made available to the CIVs, thus none can build it.

Some other things that caught my eye:
Are Inquisitors and Ships of the line meant to enslave? If yes, they don't have a resulting slave unit chosen.
Brahmin units have stealth attack activated, but have no stealthattack targets. So no stealth attack, ..

 

[Rambuchan]

Hi Mentat. Glad you're enjoying.

Thanks for pointing those things out. I'm a little embarassed those got through, can't think how, other than me forgetting somehow. Those points certainly warrant a new biq being posted. That will come shortly. Here's what's happening in response:

1) The military academy and 2) leaders: Army unit will be checked for all to build.

3.) Incredible number of troops: I don't know what to do here. It makes a difference when you're at war with them or if they are your ally. I recommend unchecking the "show enemy animations" and "show friendly animations" to speed things up. Or holding down either Caps Lock or Shift.

Also,

4) Are Inquisitors and Ships of the line meant to enslave?
Yes they are and the ammended biq while address this.

5) Brahmins and Stealth Attack.
Ditto.

Thanks for reporting back on these.


EDIT: I'm not a fan of continually editing biqs and posting them all the time. I think it gets confusing for players. With this in mind, I'll fix a few other things before putting up this new biq. Please chime in so I can get them done...

- Mughals with religious trait: I was dissatisfied with the cultural clout of the Mughals, plus their ability to grow really big cities (due to not having access to cheap masjids, mandirs, temples etc). I'm going to give them this trait, comments?

7Ronin ~ When you say "go at it", what do you mean exactly?

- Rotate on attack for ships: People have mentioned this, but I'm not sure how it is applied to certain ships. Some clarification needed here please. Which ships should have rotate on attack and which should have it removed?

- Malacca Pirates: Any requests 7Ronin, anyone else? I want to get them into a position of being a real nuisance in a Multiplayer version.

 

[7ronin]

When you say "go at it", what do you mean exactly?[

I mean go to war with each other. In my pirate game they've ignored each other despite being the others worst rival. Perhaps they are too evenly matched for either one to venture a go.

- Malacca Pirates: Any requests 7Ronin, anyone else? I want to get them into a position of being a real nuisance in a Multiplayer version.

It depends on how much of nuisance. Some thoughts: increase the automatic production of Malaccan Menaces; increase Malaccan Menace stats; give Malaccan Menaces fatal bombardment (I forget if they already have it or not); give them salt petre - maybe some of those islands have guano deposits; give them another automatic unit producer. The pirates are definitely fun to play - even if you can't win.

Do you mean the King-Units or the Leaders?

I meant the King Units. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

 

[Rambuchan]

I mean go to war with each other. In my pirate game they've ignored each other despite being the others worst rival. Perhaps they are too evenly matched for either one to venture a go.

I'm not worried about this. They do go to war with each other. It just seems they haven't in your game.

It depends on how much of nuisance. Some thoughts:

increase the automatic production of Malaccan Menaces; increase Malaccan Menace stats;

~ OK, I might do this and / or alter their stats. How about their auto-production being stopped by the arrival of Ghost ships (Naval Warfare tech)? Do you find this annoying, reasonable? I might let the Menaces keep spawning throughout. Have you been using Ghost ships?

give Malaccan Menaces fatal bombardment (I forget if they already have it or not);

~ They have it for sea already, but not for land. I might up their bombardment value or something like that.

give them salt petre

~ Hmm, too easy. They should work for this as a small time player. But the ability to grab it is in reach.

maybe some of those islands have guano deposits; give them another automatic unit producer.

~ Yeah I might give them a Raider improvement somehow. Or cheaper, easier to build raiders.

The pirates are definitely fun to play - even if you can't win.

~ Arrr!! I told you so!!

Oh and how about giving them the Rocket Walas?

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Regarding ships and rotate attack, just switch the setting one those behaving wrong.

 

[silver 2039]

In my Mughal game my massive army smashed the Rajputs and Jaipur and then crushed them again at Jodhpur. Ahmdanagr took Udiapur. The French, Brits and vijaynagars have been going at it and it appears that the Vijaynagars are holding their own. Calicut was first taken by the French, then taken by Vijaynagar and then taken by Brits. Good to see.

Meanwhile I expanded, got struck my plauge a bit which is irrritating graphics. I say just scrap the plauge thing its useless and irritating. Meanwhile Ahmdanager attacked me striking against Meerut but my Persian Musketment cut their Sardar Riders down before they even got close.

Meanwhile my large army seized Udaipur, and then attacked Cambay but took heavy casulties in the process shredding itself which was unfourtnate. Meanwhile Rajput Resistors repulesd all Ahmdanagr attacks on Meerut. This is the current situation. I intend to attack Surat next with Rocketwalla support once I rebuilt my Mughal Cavalry horde. Akbar is still alive I'm pleased to say.
The Mughals are a powrful force but they do have good empetitors. The Safavids and Bengal most notably. Like the graphice BTW. Just a note the tech pace seems sligltly fast. I'm can already research Imperial Military without ever getting a chance to enjoy my Firelancers and Rocketwalla's.

 

[Rambuchan]

Nice work there you brutal warmongerer you.

Don't worry, you'll have use of your Rocketwalas and Firelancers till game end. They don't become obsolete.

 

[silver 2039]

I tore into the Ahmdanagr smashing into Surat with my Rocketwallas great artillery those are. A bit overpowered maybe...

unfourtnatley Camby revolted wiping out a bit of my Mughal Cavalry horde. I quickly retook the city however and procceded to strike against Indore sezing it as well as forcing Ghwarligarh from Ahmdanagr in peace negotations.

Ahmdanagr has been reduced to a rump state owning little territory outside the boundreis of its city. I'm using the oppurtunity to consoldiate my gains, and such. After that I intend to finish off Ahmdanagr, before striking against either Bijapur or Bengal. Whichever provokes me first. At the very least this will teach Ahmdanagr not to be a fool and attack me, no good ever comes of it....for them at least. lol

 

[7ronin]

Meanwhile I expanded, got struck my plauge a bit which is irrritating graphics. I say just scrap the plauge thing its useless and irritating.

If you read back through the thread you will find that Ram and I discussed this at some length. Up until the beginning of the 20th Century more soldiers probably died from disease than were ever killed by bullets or swordthrusts. So I think that the plague is a very real and essential aspect of warfare at the time and place of this scenario. As Ram pointed out, the plague probably wouldn't be half so annoying if the graphics were different. Those circling crows make by head spin. But looking at it from a different perspective isn't disease meant to be annoying? Those annoying crows introduce a certain psychological aspect to the game. If you are frustrated and annoyed perhaps you will make a mistake just as commanders do in real life when confronted by these types of crises.

 

[Mentat]

I am just in my second game, now playing the Portuguese.
If you are enhancing the Scenario, how about giving the Inquisitors the ability to clear jungle areas aswell?

 

[The Last Conformist]

If you read back through the thread you will find that Ram and I discussed this at some length. Up until the beginning of the 20th Century more soldiers probably died from disease than were ever killed by bullets or swordthrusts. So I think that the plague is a very real and essential aspect of warfare at the time and place of this scenario. As Ram pointed out, the plague probably wouldn't be half so annoying if the graphics were different. Those circling crows make by head spin. But looking at it from a different perspective isn't disease meant to be annoying? Those annoying crows introduce a certain psychological aspect to the game. If you are frustrated and annoyed perhaps you will make a mistake just as commanders do in real life when confronted by these types of crises.

It seems there'd be alot of demand for less-obstructive plague graphics. Why don't we go and request it?