1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

The Rood and the Dragon - the Anglo-Saxon scenario

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by Plotinus, Nov 25, 2004.

  1. Misfit_travel

    Misfit_travel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,513
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    A couple other minor things.

    Viking Huscarl unit is indicated as being a Anglo-Saxon unit in its description, when in actual fact it is a Scandinavian unit only.

    Forge has no description but costs 120 shields. I'm assuming its some kind of factory improvement, but it should state that.

    Cheers
    Misfit
     
  2. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Messages:
    16,810
    Location:
    Somerset
    Thanks, Misfit - in fact the Forge did have a description, but a missing # prevented it from being displayed. I've corrected this and updated the patch at the start of this thread. And you're right, of course - the Forge does work like a Factory.

    It's true that the Viking Huscarl entry isn't quite right - this is because this unit is identical to the Huscarl and uses the same files. In fact you're unlikely ever to see one (look at the required resources to find out why - this unit exists primarily to motivate the Vikings to invade) so I was hoping this wouldn't be a problem, but at some stage I will probably give the unit an entry of its own which is more accurate.
     
  3. Asclepius

    Asclepius AWOL

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    620
    Location:
    Lurking
    I think the name Northumbria is simply derived from its geography. That is, the kingdom was almost entirely North(of the river)Humber. Mercia and Northumbria were seperated by the river and Northumbria only held possesions south of the river for very short periods.
     
  4. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    27,779
    Location:
    Not on your side
    Well, duh. The point is that names so derived - specifying the name-bearers to be, in this case, north of something - are rarely ones that the people or country in question has given to itself, but one that has been given it by outsiders.
     
  5. Asclepius

    Asclepius AWOL

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    620
    Location:
    Lurking
    LOL!
    I'm sure they would have noticed that they all lived north of a river called the Humber though...no matter where that river is in relation to anything else. Anyhooo, just trying to help.
     
  6. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Messages:
    16,810
    Location:
    Somerset
    I think TLC is probably right, although I certainly wouldn't know. I do know that if I were a Northumbrian, I'd probably call my own kingdom "centre of the universe" and the rest of the Anglo-Saxons "Southumbrians".

    In fact, come to think of it - the modern inhabitants of Northumbria do pretty much that, don't they?...
     
  7. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    27,779
    Location:
    Not on your side
    They'll have noticed they lived north of the Humber - the question is whether they, on their own accord, would have based their self-designation on it.

    (Xpost with Plotinus.)
     
  8. Triple_C

    Triple_C Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    41
    I can't unzip the file?
     
  9. Asclepius

    Asclepius AWOL

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    620
    Location:
    Lurking
    from Bede's Historia Ecclesiastica:

    Angles "are descended the East Angles, the Middle Angles, the Mercians, all the race of the Northumbrians (that is to say of those peoples who live to the north of the river Humber), and the other Anglian peoples."
     
  10. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,633
    Location:
    Chicago
    Try redownloading it, works fine for me.
     
  11. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    27,779
    Location:
    Not on your side
    This doesn't actually address the question.
     
  12. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Messages:
    16,810
    Location:
    Somerset
    Well, it sort of does, since Bede himself was a Northumbrian (I don't think he ever set foot outside the place), so if he uses that term... etc.

    I'm glad I seem to have accidentally created a History discussion thread. Normally I find that arguments about religion inexplicably break out around me, so this makes a nice change.

    Triple C: that's a problem at your end, I'm pretty sure. Try again, as blackheart says.
     
  13. Asclepius

    Asclepius AWOL

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    620
    Location:
    Lurking
    No, not directly but Bede was a Northumbrian and if he described his people thus in 731 then that is about as close as you can get to knowing if the Northumbrians called themselves so.

    Edit: Oops Plotinus just posted the same point.
     
  14. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    27,779
    Location:
    Not on your side
    But the question wasn't whether they called themselves so at some point, but whether the name originated as an exonym or not.

    Modern Australians call their country Australia; no-one would take this as evidence that the name was given by people from somewhere else.
     
  15. Nachos

    Nachos SEMPER IDEM

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2003
    Messages:
    99
    Location:
    Stockholm
    vikings in 480 AD? you must be kidding...
     
  16. KayEss

    KayEss Gone to the dogs

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2004
    Messages:
    227
    Location:
    Bangkok
    Plotinus, can you describe the MP version? This looks fascinating and should be a good scenario for me and my MP friends to have a go at (as if we didn't have a big enough backlog of scenarios already - but what the...)
     
  17. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Messages:
    16,810
    Location:
    Somerset
    [Nachos] The Vikings are strictly non-playable and appear only later in the game - in theory at approximately the historically correct time, if I set them up correctly.

    [KayEss] Basically, the MP version is identical but with only eight playable factions (Lindsey and Hwicce are no longer playable), as I believe this is the only criterion for making something MP-compatible. I must say that I have never played mulitplayer so I haven't been able to test this. But I did think whilst making it that this would probably make an interesting multiplayer scenario (largely because it's quite fast-moving and there's an awful lot of fighting), so if you'd like to take it for a spin I'd be very pleased. It would be good to get feedback on how it runs in MP as well.
     
  18. Asclepius

    Asclepius AWOL

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    620
    Location:
    Lurking
    Well that will be kind of hard to prove, although it appears to be evident that Northumbrians called themselves Northumbrians, where that name came from is pretty hard to pin down. I think what is more important is that it is not a modern invention, but the name was used to describe themselves from the 8th Century on.

    It is interesting to note that the English never described themselves as Saxon, either. They only ever called themselves Angles, the term Saxon comes from the Celtic and was only used to describe the territory of the English and not the people themselves. The term Anglo-Saxon most certainly is a modern invention. It was considered of great importance that an Englishman could show his descent from Anglian stock not Saxon. Even the kings of Wessex called themselves Rex Anglorum.

    Oh, and BTW I'm still enjoying your scenario, sorry for hijacking this thread :goodjob:
     
  19. sjd74

    sjd74 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Here... and sometimes there
    Somone should start a SG with this scenario. I am away from my C3C right now and would love to watch that vicariously.
     
  20. KayEss

    KayEss Gone to the dogs

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2004
    Messages:
    227
    Location:
    Bangkok
    That sounds like a great way to do it. When we play we tend to have the full compliment of 8 players (most being AI), but many scenarios get hopelessly unbalanced if there are too many tribes missing. I'm not sure when we'll get to it though - might not be for a few months (PbEM takes a long time).
     

Share This Page