The second Finnish succession game: struggle for immortality
- Thread starter sinimusta
- Start date
You are correct that it would be a disaster, but it shouldn't happen too quickly as he has at least the cow-gold site to settle before that and likely some others. Lakamha can whip another settler in ~12-15 turns, which should be enough?
I'd vote no for the HA-rush - they have metal and our attack will be a tad late due to rather low commerce. In other words: don't know where to put the 
if 3- or 4-city HA-rush. If you feel it's doable I think Zara is the better target - he's not a unit spammer and has good commerce (judging from his date to writing+sailing). But phants is reliable, like already pointed out. I'm not a huge fan of that fish-sheep spot as it's a slow site like you said and maybe we should just let Zara get it. Getting horse-cow would be pretty awesome. Or if there is food by those golds...
if 3- or 4-city HA-rush. If you feel it's doable I think Zara is the better target - he's not a unit spammer and has good commerce (judging from his date to writing+sailing). But phants is reliable, like already pointed out. I'm not a huge fan of that fish-sheep spot as it's a slow site like you said and maybe we should just let Zara get it. Getting horse-cow would be pretty awesome. Or if there is food by those golds...Although not everything in our surroundings is optimal, a HA rush is definitely doable here, but...
Factors in favor of elepult:
- If we settle that double gold, we have the commerce to get there quickly.
- The attack date will be later, giving us time to settle more cities. Our cities are food-poor, so we need the time to set up Granaries and Barrackses.
- We are in no hurry.
Factors in favor of HA rush:
- Settling the horsecow site can be dangerous if Stalin starts plotting and picks us as his 1st target. HAs would give us the muscle to keep him in check. Or he might declare on us before we're ready.
- Zara doesn't look particularly strong, and we could extort a bunch of techs from him in a peace deal.
With that, I think we'll go elepult, and make our settling decisions accordingly.
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Played until next turn. Zara got to Alpha already. We must take into consideration that if we attack him, he might bribe some of the warmongers on us with his techlead. Although I'm sure we could deal with it.
Zara was so kind as to trade us Fishing and Archery for AH and Mysticism.
Moved a warrior to reveal a Deer at the double gold spot.
"c" denotes a proposed settling location.
Here's a rough settling plan:
1st city to settle at this point would be the gold/deer. Mutal will whip a worker after this turn. The overflow will be directed towards a Settler. The rest will be 2-pop whipped @ size 4. The 2nd Settler lands on the fur. After that we should secure the Ivory.
Note:
I'm sure you all know this, but when preparing to whip a worker, remember we are expansive, and the 2-pop threshold is at 15/60, not 30/60 hammers.
PS. Typing down plans is new to me. In early game I usually rely on intuition, and don't really rationalize the decisions I make too much. Doing planning in an organized manner like this will help my game develop.
Factors in favor of elepult:
- If we settle that double gold, we have the commerce to get there quickly.
- The attack date will be later, giving us time to settle more cities. Our cities are food-poor, so we need the time to set up Granaries and Barrackses.
- We are in no hurry.
Factors in favor of HA rush:
- Settling the horsecow site can be dangerous if Stalin starts plotting and picks us as his 1st target. HAs would give us the muscle to keep him in check. Or he might declare on us before we're ready.
- Zara doesn't look particularly strong, and we could extort a bunch of techs from him in a peace deal.
With that, I think we'll go elepult, and make our settling decisions accordingly.
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Played until next turn. Zara got to Alpha already. We must take into consideration that if we attack him, he might bribe some of the warmongers on us with his techlead. Although I'm sure we could deal with it.
Zara was so kind as to trade us Fishing and Archery for AH and Mysticism.
Moved a warrior to reveal a Deer at the double gold spot.
"c" denotes a proposed settling location.
Here's a rough settling plan:
1st city to settle at this point would be the gold/deer. Mutal will whip a worker after this turn. The overflow will be directed towards a Settler. The rest will be 2-pop whipped @ size 4. The 2nd Settler lands on the fur. After that we should secure the Ivory.
Note:
I'm sure you all know this, but when preparing to whip a worker, remember we are expansive, and the 2-pop threshold is at 15/60, not 30/60 hammers.
PS. Typing down plans is new to me. In early game I usually rely on intuition, and don't really rationalize the decisions I make too much. Doing planning in an organized manner like this will help my game develop.
Woah, Zara has alpha T58! 
Not that it alters our plans a lot. Don't know if you guys use this page: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=478563. Good info there on each villain. On emperor (don't know how it is on immortal!), they will hit WFYABTA after human has received the following amount of techs in trade:
Huayna 8
Julius 8
Stalin 8
Suti 15
Zara 15
Joao 22
This is why I said Joao is a good trade partner and put
towards him.
Sounds like you are not overly concerned on losing the phant either, JSS. Agree with the settling plan.
per pop, making the threshold 23/60.
Not that it alters our plans a lot. Don't know if you guys use this page: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=478563. Good info there on each villain. On emperor (don't know how it is on immortal!), they will hit WFYABTA after human has received the following amount of techs in trade:Huayna 8
Julius 8
Stalin 8
Suti 15
Zara 15
Joao 22
This is why I said Joao is a good trade partner and put
towards him.Sounds like you are not overly concerned on losing the phant either, JSS. Agree with the settling plan.
Well it's +25% so a whip is 37
per pop, making the threshold 23/60.+1!
Looks like a great piece of reference material. I have the excel that contains the leader information somewhere, but I haven't used it for a while because I'm lazy.
No, I think we have time to get those. And if we lose them, we can capture them on turn 1 of the war.
Oh, right, right... We don't have imperialistic workers. How nice would that be.Well it's +25% so a whip is 37
Ok, here's the 1400BC save.
A couple of things:
- The gold spot is about to be settled next turn (make sure you complete the road before you settle, to connect the city to the trade network on the same turn). Improve the Deer, then the golds. This city just works those golds and the deer. Do not whip.
- Whip a the Settler in Mutal next turn at 65/100.
- We're not in a great hurry to get our 1st GS. Make sure we work our tiles to their full potential, and start generating a GS when we can afford to. I suggest we build an Academy with it in Lakamha, because we need to power through HBR and Construction. Bulbing Math doesn't feel necessary. It's debatable if we need a GS at all. When the double-gold city goes online, we can get to where we need in time.
A couple of things:
- The gold spot is about to be settled next turn (make sure you complete the road before you settle, to connect the city to the trade network on the same turn). Improve the Deer, then the golds. This city just works those golds and the deer. Do not whip.
- Whip a the Settler in Mutal next turn at 65/100.
- We're not in a great hurry to get our 1st GS. Make sure we work our tiles to their full potential, and start generating a GS when we can afford to. I suggest we build an Academy with it in Lakamha, because we need to power through HBR and Construction. Bulbing Math doesn't feel necessary. It's debatable if we need a GS at all. When the double-gold city goes online, we can get to where we need in time.
Yeah, don't even build a granary as the city will stagnate.- The gold spot is about to be settled next turn (make sure you complete the road before you settle, to connect the city to the trade network on the same turn). Improve the Deer, then the golds. This city just works those golds and the deer. Do not whip.
Imo whip immediately. What do we need overflow for? (worker?) Slow-building: 1
=1, whipping: 1=+2, so every turn we slow-build settler/worker we are losing hammers. Plus we get the settler/worker earlier...Agree, academy feels best. Construction+HBR is not very close so should both Mutal+Lakamha build library to run scientists?
Robert FIN
Emperor
Holy beaver! 6 fur.. That's sweet!
I agree. Build a Monument and a Barracks while growing to size 3, then maybe a Settler/Worker until we have the techs to build units.
You're right. I was thinking that the Settler would have to wait 1 turn while the worker that's chopping the Fur we're about to settle on is doing his job. But I think if we whip now, the chop gets done on the same turn as the settling.Imo whip immediately. What do we need overflow for? (worker?) Slow-building: 1
I don't think we need to bulb anything. Mutal should use its hammers building Settlers and Workers. Sure we could get to those techs quicker if we wanted to, but we need to settle and develop our land first to be able to put the techs to proper use.
Furs have a tendency to appear in large groups like that. They're only good for resource trading, since the tiles themselves are not worth working.
at some point. How many cities you think we should have before attacking? 6? At least we have rather many decent spots. I'm not proposing we keep building Settlers indefinitely, but use Mutal as a Settler/Worker production spot until we have settled everything we need to.
In a commerce-poor start I'd build another library and get the science that way. But here we have 2 strong-ish commerce cities to get us to Construction. The aim is to have both our tech and our city development align at the same point in time to allow us to have the quickest and strongest breakout.
6 cities should be enough.
In a commerce-poor start I'd build another library and get the science that way. But here we have 2 strong-ish commerce cities to get us to Construction. The aim is to have both our tech and our city development align at the same point in time to allow us to have the quickest and strongest breakout.
6 cities should be enough.
So we have gone a full round and it's my turn again. Got to start making the ppp.
Techpath: hbr, then partially tech alpha and trade for it, trade/selftech math, constr. This is way ahead of my turnset though. I'll do binary research of course, currently we'd need 150 gold for hbr but that'll change.
Settling order: I'll settle the gold spot and beaver spot as planned. The next city I think should claim the phants so I think I'd settle the marker spot on the ph there. Now we could just claim the phants with our next border pop, but it'll be a good production city aswell. The copper/silver site last since it's not contested.
Worker action: the couple near gold site finish road, improve deer, build road, improve gold. Workers near Lakamha finish cottage, the chop riverside tile 1S and cottage to get cottage tiles for the new city. The one chopping the city tile will go road towards phant/horse site and then towards Stalin for trade routes as I don't think we need additional fur immediately.
Builds: Mutal whips settler, then build lib until it grows to size 4 again to whip another settler. Then I'd start generating first GS there. Lakamha builds lib. Double gold site builds monument, barracks. Library there would give us about +5 beaker/turn when fully developed and 100% reserach, not sure it's worht it. Fur site builds(whips) granary and monument.
Army: as founding new cities will free up some spawnbusters I'll start scouting the fogged area in east and Zara's military.
Techpath: hbr, then partially tech alpha and trade for it, trade/selftech math, constr. This is way ahead of my turnset though. I'll do binary research of course, currently we'd need 150 gold for hbr but that'll change.
Settling order: I'll settle the gold spot and beaver spot as planned. The next city I think should claim the phants so I think I'd settle the marker spot on the ph there. Now we could just claim the phants with our next border pop, but it'll be a good production city aswell. The copper/silver site last since it's not contested.
Worker action: the couple near gold site finish road, improve deer, build road, improve gold. Workers near Lakamha finish cottage, the chop riverside tile 1S and cottage to get cottage tiles for the new city. The one chopping the city tile will go road towards phant/horse site and then towards Stalin for trade routes as I don't think we need additional fur immediately.
Builds: Mutal whips settler, then build lib until it grows to size 4 again to whip another settler. Then I'd start generating first GS there. Lakamha builds lib. Double gold site builds monument, barracks. Library there would give us about +5 beaker/turn when fully developed and 100% reserach, not sure it's worht it. Fur site builds(whips) granary and monument.
Army: as founding new cities will free up some spawnbusters I'll start scouting the fogged area in east and Zara's military.
I think math-(alpha)-(masonry)-construction is much better than HBR. Reasoning: we desperately need something to put our into! The answer would be catapults. We can start the attack with cats+axes/holkans/swords, phants can come later. Also HBR gives no immediate benefits (stables aren't stellar). I understand that the trade value of HBR is better, but it's extremely unlikely than we could get math via trade.
In any case, we are staying @0% for quite some time I imagine.
Btw just to state the obvious: put chops only into settler/worker/granary/monument. We will have-issues sooner or later, so prefer 3-pop whip of settler if possible.
into! The answer would be catapults. We can start the attack with cats+axes/holkans/swords, phants can come later. Also HBR gives no immediate benefits (stables aren't stellar). I understand that the trade value of HBR is better, but it's extremely unlikely than we could get math via trade.In any case, we are staying @0% for quite some time I imagine.
Btw just to state the obvious: put chops only into settler/worker/granary/monument. We will have
-issues sooner or later, so prefer 3-pop whip of settler if possible.After alpha we can build research. But math, trade for alpha, contruction would get us to cats faster which is a good point.
3-pop whipping would delay the settlers somewhat I think (haven't done the math) and our expansion is towards new happy resources: silver and ivory. I'd 2-pop the ivory site and silver/copper site isn't in such a hurry.
3-pop whipping would delay the settlers somewhat I think (haven't done the math
) and our expansion is towards new happy resources: silver and ivory. I'd 2-pop the ivory site and silver/copper site isn't in such a hurry.I played until T73. Now we have enough gold to tech math. I decided to 2-pop whip a worker in Mutal since I felt that we need additional workforce to improve two more cities soon. Planning to make 3-pop whip in Lakamha for a settler. Oh and I opened borders with everyone for the diplo bonus (and no worst enemies yet).
We've surpassed Zara Yakob in score. Apparently he just doesn't have enough land for proper expansion, he has only 3 cities. He built GLH for us which is nice of him though we don't have currently any coastal cities. Shouldn't be too hard target when the time comes.
We've surpassed Zara Yakob in score. Apparently he just doesn't have enough land for proper expansion, he has only 3 cities. He built GLH for us which is nice of him though we don't have currently any coastal cities. Shouldn't be too hard target when the time comes.
