The second Finnish succession game: struggle for immortality

[sampsa]

Ok, we can't wait forever and I could play at least the first part of my set tonight.

Tech: huntz-wheel

Whip settler asap @ size 4 with one chop, next finish warrior, start holkan. Whip worker when grown to size 4 unless we can steal one.

Settle Sahara. Improve gold first, then road to connect capital.

 

[JSS]

I would settle 1NE of the corn. Food and hammers in the early game are a bigger priority than commerce. The techs we are in urgent need of are TW and Hunting, and our current commerce base is enough to get to them before the gold would be improved anyway.

The gold takes 6 turns to improve (climb on the hill [1] + mine [5]). Those turns could be used for chopping, roading and improving the corn instead. Roading to the corn spot also takes the same amount of turns as it does to road to "Sahara", but the road to the eastern spot would have those 2 forest tiles roaded as well (once we get to Wheel of course).

We can get a Holkan or a Worker out before a monument. We don't need that gold up immediately. It's better we have Zara pinned down as quickly as possible.

Edit:
I don't think the plan you thought of is a bad one either. If you feel it's a better one, go with it.

 

[sampsa]

I'm very ok with the classical approach that you suggest. Settle good sites first, food is king, food to the 1st ring.

I thought about it earlier too, but how to claim the -resources? Settle 4th city like this?

Spoiler :

It ignores the copper, which is no biggie imo anyway.

If we settle 2nd city 1NE of corn, I suggest to go wheel before hunting.

 

[JSS]

To grab the Ivory, that site should do the job. Settling 1S of the dot seems like an option too, because it'd claim the copper after its 1st border pop.

However, once you get a Holkan out, scout south of the 2nd city to see if there's any food resources there to go with the copper. I think we can get that Ivory when we need it.

 

[sampsa]

Will play in a few hours. Chop 1E of capital first to speed up the settling 1 turn.

Tech: Wheel-huntz

Settle 1NE of corn.

 

[Robert FIN]

Can we take more players in still? My forum buddy from Estonia may want to join us. Estonia is like Finland u know !

 

[sampsa]

Played until wheel finished.

Took a debatable gamble for 3XP as we seem to have enough warriors and woodsman II would be precious. Animals start disappearing soon so this was the last chance I felt.

Spoiler :

And won!

Landed next to a bear, which ate him.

Everything else went as expected.

Spoiler :

Stalin is close. Zara founded a rather worthless 2nd city (rather late, his land must be awful). His creative crap makes our Sahara-site worthless, too. So maybe 3rd/4th city to claim sheep+gold?

Stopped play to discuss tech - hunting (in 4) or pottery (in 8)? Granary would help development a lot in both cities, 2nd city could start cottages too. I wasn't planning on building a monument in Lakamha, we can wait until library. Hunting would allow us to build holkans, which would deal with a barbarian next to the stone. It doesn't look like there is a tile to steal a worker from Zara. Maybe he will build a mine 1N of oasis though?

is on Joao btw, he is a better trading partner than HC.

My thoughts:

Spoiler :

I think pottery-hunting might be better just to develop cities as fast as possible. Zara will be weak so there is no hurry to deal with him.

 

[sinimusta]

Since Stalin is that close and Zara's land is supposedly bad, we should think about if Stalin should be our target. We have a warrior close Russian borders and their worker will probably at some point possible to capture. I think Russian worker is currently roading between their cap and 2nd site.

I wasn't planning on building a monument in Lakamha, we can wait until library.

I would hook up the gold asap. With a food rich city like, is 1-pop whip to a monument that bad? Or we could chop it. Waiting for libraries is going to take us quite a long time, since we're teching at least hun, pot and ah before that.

With our 2nd city we're actually going to get a lot of early commerce. With that I think oracling could be doable and since this pangaea, quite useful for tech trading.

3rd city site: sheep+gold is ok, but I'd like to get info about possible seafood. While claiming it would throw gold in the 2nd ring with the more food I don't really see whipping a mon that big deal.

4th city site: I like the southern version more. While it has elephants in the 2nd ring, I think we don't need + from them that bad and war elephants are still far away. It would have more riverside to farm and the copper is both a good tile and ok strat resource.

@Robert: I'm okay with one additional player especially this early in the game. But I'd draw a line in Estonia . Out of curiosity, what's his skill level?

 

[sampsa]

Well it's not only putting the 30 into monument, it's also the 10 turns wait, but ok, it depends on how we settle gold+phant.

We will need -resources to keep 2-/3-pop whipping the capital.

I will play ahead, teching pottery. I think we are late to get the Oracle, HC is around even.

 

[sampsa]

Played until T46 and I can say that our position doesn't appear stellar.

Spoiler :

Maybe I was wrong on Zara having sucky land, as T43 he got writing. I think he also must have sailing as there is that trade-icon on the scoreboard.

Road between our own cities was completed on the same turn so opening borders won us 2 as you can see from the top left corner.

You can also see a barb archer on the background trolling us... I didn't anticipate it entering our borders T43. This is not deity for heaven's sake. Both of our farms get pillaged, that's 14 worker-turns. I guess hunting before pottery would have worked better. We are also paying 2 for unit upkeep (7 warriors). Lakamha has a monument and will pop borders T50. Granaries done soon so we can whip settlers. Happiness shouldn't be an issue, we can claim beaver and silver with a border-pop if we settle copper-city 1SW of copper.

I had a chance to steal a worker from Stalin, but his archer was way too close so it would've been too risky.

Next set seems extremely demanding, both city-micro and troop movement require accuracy.

 

[Robert FIN]


Next set seems extremely demanding, both city-micro and troop movement require accuracy.

Aww.. I know what you're thinking! Its my turn next and I get the hard part of game.. Just give me accurate instructions on how to tech, when to worker steal, where to build, etc. BtW why wouldn't we to try worker steal to Stalin if we get a chance like Sinimusta said?

@Robert: I'm okay with one additional player especially this early in the game. But I'd draw a line in Estonia . Out of curiosity, what's his skill level?


Sniff.. Its closer than Lapland from our capital !! And yeah, his skill lvl is based on what I've seen and heard, Emperor+ (which means that he can beat Emperor mostly).

 

[sinimusta]

Aww.. I know what you're thinking! Its my turn next and I get the hard part of game.. Just give me accurate instructions on how to tech, when to worker steal, where to build, etc. BtW why wouldn't we to try worker steal to Stalin if we get a chance like Sinimusta said? Sniff.. Its closer than Lapland from our capital !! And yeah, his skill lvl is based on what I've seen and heard, Emperor+ (which means that he can beat Emperor mostly).

Unfortunately barbs are the unpredictable element in the game. So we can't plan everything ahead. I think that barb archer is going to attack next turn though. We have close neighbours so the only way barbs are coming from is south, look to spawnbust it(and scout the coast near sheep). Just remember the city sites we've discussed about and try to expand to them. And don't forget a good ppp.

If Sampsa would have stolen a worker we would have now a Russian archer roaming in our lands.

I meant I wouldn't take players from any further than Estonia, geographically or linguistically speaking.

 

[sampsa]

I think the worker steal -idea is no longer good. It's T46 and the gain is much smaller now compared to getting an extra worker T15 for example, and getting the peace is more difficult.

What we have to do now is to push with our warriors (probably in pairs) towards south to scout and claim the good spots (sheep+gold, copper+stuff). Mutal+Lakamha get a granary asap and whip settlers/workers.

We have been lucky with forest growth btw, 3 forests have grown inside our borders already.

 

[Robert FIN]

PPP!: I want you to help me making this better, but here we go: 1. I settle two cities (gosh, I hope you marked the spots!). 2. I don't steal workers. 3. I spawnbust in south. 4. I whip out workers and settlers like mad , like I did in my last turnset in previous game! Fine?

 

[sinimusta]

Useful post about barb behaviour: http://http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12739509&postcount=37

I'd like more detailed ppp and some comment on how long turnset you intend to play. Our standard has been around 15 turns. I'm not sure how long it would take to get 2 cities up with this barb trouble.

That archer will probably attack after pillaging the farm with no more improvements to pillage.

City sites haven't been marked since there has been a lot of discussion about them. 3rd site is intended to be into Zara's direction, claiming sheep and gold. I'd like you to check the coast before settling though, since I wouldn't want to lose seafood. I think we should consider settling 1SW of the copper at some point since it would give us 2 more -resources and it could grow some cottages for Lakamha.

Since we're expansive granaries are only 1-pop whips so you can whip those almost right away. When we get hunting get us a holkan to prevent our tiles from being pillaged.

 

[Robert FIN]

OK, I'll play till I find the city in Zara's direction. First I whip the granaries and then another city builds settler, another builds Holkan. What is your decision about my Emperor buddy who may want to join us?

 

[sampsa]

Hope you haven't started to play yet. It's a recipe to complete disaster to play many levels above your normal difficulty and play without a clear plan. I suggest you to play 5 turns at a time after we take a really close look to micro.

 

[sinimusta]

OK, I'll play till I find the city in Zara's direction. First I whip the granaries and then another city builds settler, another builds Holkan. What is your decision about my Emperor buddy who may want to join us?

The point of those granaries is growing faster so don't stop the growth by starting to build a settler. Instead grow to size 4 and then start settler and whip when possible.

As I've said I'm ok with your friend joining:

I meant I wouldn't take players from any further than Estonia, geographically or linguistically speaking.

 

[sampsa]

Robert, please reply if you've played or not and if you haven't, do not play yet. I can make a real plan for you tomorrow for the next 5 turns.

 

[Robert FIN]

Robert, please reply if you've played or not and if you haven't, do not play yet. I can make a real plan for you tomorrow for the next 5 turns.

Yes yes, you have my reply: Nope haven't played, I just don't check CFC at 5am .. I'm now back from school so let's discuss. What shall be my tech path? And, oh now I see that you promised to make a plan for me of five turns, so go ahead and I'll play today or tomorrow depending on when you've finished the plan. Thanks for being patient, I'm not the most active fellow for succession games right now because of my studies. No worries, we'll make this work.