The second Finnish succession game: struggle for immortality

[sampsa]

Sorry, only now had time to make the plan.

Spoiler :

T45:

Lakamha should work these tiles for granary optimization.

Tech: I propose hunting, @ 0%. Unless there is a specific reason, you should always go either 0% or 100%.

Nothing needs to be changed, just end turn.

Change Mutal to worker and turn the governor on so it should look like this:

T46:

Warriors: Hope barb archer attacks and loses. If it attacks and wins, look how good chances you have to kill it. You still have 3 warriors in the area. If +70%, kill it. When the threat is removed, leave 1 warrior to capital and move all the others as a group towards south to fogbust and scout the sheep-site.

Workers keep doing what they were doing, other chops other builds cottage.

Mutal works the highest available -tiles. Do not whip the granary, we can do it with chops.

Lakamha whips the granary and from now on works the highest available -tiles.

Tech still @ 0%

T47:

Chop done to granary in Mutal, keep growing at max speed. worker in Mutal. Lakamha starts barracks, as there is nothing useful to build now (warriors are costing us maintenance already) and we should under no circumstances stall growth.

Turn tech to 100%

T48:

Worker around Mutal moves to the forest with label "pre-chopped".

Mutal whips the worker.

T49

Worker chops the forest to Mutal. Mutal starts granary.

Upload and let's think some more.

Hope people comment on this before you play.

 

[Robert FIN]

Thanks. I play after school. I have to go now so its better that I read it later on today. Thanks again!

 

[Robert FIN]

Yes, thanks for exellent quide-post Sampsa! No questions for now. I begin to play.

 

[Robert FIN]

2200BC-2040BC

Spoiler :

T45:

Lakamha:


I am teching at 0% rate.

Mutal:


T46:

I won the battle :


I moved the out-city warriors towards the sheep for more speed.

Lakamha whips the granary and from now on works the highest available food tiles.

Science rate is 0%

T47:

Lakamha starts work on Barracks.


Worker got scared in T45 so chop got delayed by one turn..

Science rate now 100%

T48:

Warriors reached the sheep:


Worker around Mutal moves to the forest with label "pre-chopped".

Mutal whips the worker.

T49:

Worker chops the forest to Mutal. Mutal starts granary.

 

[sampsa]

Not perfect, but good.

Mistakes:

Spoiler :

- Worked tiles in Mutal. Use governor, it works the best tiles. Now you haven't worked the farmed floodplain and have lost 1 on the turns (T46,T47,T48). Currently you are also not working the best tile. Look inside every city before finishing the turn!

- You have two MP:s in Mutal, it only needs one! Other could have been moved out, either to scout the stone-site or towards SE.

- "Worker got scared in T45 so chop got delayed by one turn.." I don't understand. It had two protecting warriors for that exact reason, no reason to fear and waste worker turns. One archer can't kill two units in a single turn.

Looking at the save the chop was completed T47, so nothing went wrong.

 

[sinimusta]

Seems good.

Our 2nd city is actually doing better than our capital, that's not too common.

Warrior in the eastern hill should move 2SE to the forest to cover more tiles and for better cover.

What about our future techpath? AH gives us only a plains cow for certain. Writing would allow us to open borders and get foreign trade routes+ scout ai lands and libraries, but expansion more pressing than libraries now. Or the oracle path?

 

[sampsa]

Hoping more participation from sinimusta and JSS, as I'm quite busy this week.

Continuing the plan:

Spoiler :

T49:
Send a warrior from Mutal to scout stone. Move NW, NW, NW. One tile at a time so can you can react if you see barbarian activity. Send the other warrior from Mutal towards Lakamha. Yes, we leave Mutal empty.

Move warrior in Lakamha 1S to the same tile where another warrior is. Yes, we leave also Lakamha empty for one turn.

We are doing this because we want to scout and fogbust nearby areas.

Worker from Mutal start farming the floodplain (unless you guys think cottage is better? I favor the farm). Don't forget to turn the governor on at Mutal and check the cities every turn before pressing ending turn!

Worker in Lakamha finishes cottage.

No idea why you sent the wounded warrior for sissi-operations. The point of sending two is that in case there is a fight, another one is still at full strength... Fortify the wounded one on the sheep. It's likely that the best spot for sheep-gold is this:

Yes, lots of desert and gasp, one off the coast!

Send the healthy one 1W and next turn 1SW to see if there is seafood, which might make us re-think how to settle that city.

T50:
Hunting done, next Animal Husbandry @0% of course.

Worker in Mutal keeps farming, Worker in Lakamha 1S to floodplain and cottage, third worker move 1S to forested plains hill, chop and cancel action, because next turn we want to do something else than chop. We would rather cottage with this worker too, but we can't move and cottage, so we rather put 1T into chop than do "nothing".

Lakamha pops borders and you get a better view, if no barbarian archers around move warriors 1S to the forest (ending up 1N of the beaver). The point of these warriors is to protect the workers and the cottages in Lakamha-area.

Mutal finishes warrior.

T51:
AH @0% unless we have enough gold to finish it @100%.

Warrior fortifies in Mutal. Mutal starts barracks (unless you guys insist on holkan, but I think we are paying unit upkeep already and we can live with just warriors for now).

Worker that chopped last turn moves to the floodplain where the other worker is and helps to finish the cottage faster.

T52:
Upload. It's hard to plan further than this as I'm expecting some problems with barbs.

 

[sampsa]

Warrior in the eastern hill should move 2SE to the forest to cover more tiles and for better cover.

Spoiler :

The reason why it is exactly where it is is the tile with the white dot. City borders don't fogbust like units do, they fogbust only visible tiles (this is my understanding AND experience, correct if it is wrong)! Lakamha is popping borders next turn though, so then the issue is settled and the warrior can be relocated. I think to number 1 is better than number 2 for the reasons stated above - to avoid nasty barb issues.

What about our future techpath? AH gives us only a plains cow for certain. Writing would allow us to open borders and get foreign trade routes+ scout ai lands and libraries, but expansion more pressing than libraries now. Or the oracle path?

I'd go AH-writing, as I feel oracle-path is very risky.

 

[Robert FIN]

OK, I'm up today. Plan looks good again. I just don't understand one part; Are you sure that the worker can move to hill, chop and cancel chop at the same turn?

 

[sampsa]

OK, I'm up today. Plan looks good again. I just don't understand one part; Are you sure that the worker can move to hill, chop and cancel chop at the same turn?

Spoiler :

Yes it can. It moves via city which uses 1 movement, then via road to the hill which uses 0,5 movement so it can still perform actions. Chop. Now what cancel chop does is that it doesn't automatically chop next turn, nothing else. You can always cancel worker actions at the end of your turn if you want to, there is no downside to it.

I now understand what you meant when you said "Worker got scared in T45 so chop got delayed by one turn.." Worker actions are auto-canceled if there is barbarian activity next to worker. Canceling does not lose any worker turns! What is done is done.

I sometimes use alt+ click cancel button to cancel all worker actions at the end of the turn.

 

[Robert FIN]

Spoiler :

Yes it can. It moves via city which uses 1 movement, then via road to the hill which uses 0,5 movement so it can still perform actions. Chop. Now what cancel chop does is that it doesn't automatically chop next turn, nothing else. You can always cancel worker actions at the end of your turn if you want to, there is no downside to it.

I now understand what you meant when you said "Worker got scared in T45 so chop got delayed by one turn.." Worker actions are auto-canceled if there is barbarian activity next to worker. Canceling does not lose any worker turns! What is done is done.

I sometimes use alt+ click cancel button to cancel all worker actions at the end of the turn.

OK, I got it. I'll play now.

Upload will arrive in hour or faster.

 

[Robert FIN]

T49-52:

Spoiler :

T49:
Moved the warriors in directions you pointed.

Mutal's worker starts farming floodplain #2.



T50:

Researched the previous tech, now I tech AH at 0%.



Annoying barbarian archer shows up and I retreat to western forest.


Made all the warrior and worker moves you wanted except the wounded warrior who I moved to forest.


T51:
Lalibela stole our place:


Map:

Save:

 

[Robert FIN]

Who's up next? JSS, I presume..

 

[JSS]

I'll play tomorrow if that's ok. How many turns am I supposed to play?

 

[sampsa]

Well played, Robert! JSS is up next, unless you want to play more turns?

@JSS: play at least until AH done, which is 7 turns. Maybe you can play further if we are agreed to go writing next? Can you post a plan with generic ideas on what to do tonight?

 

[JSS]

Ok.. at this point would be a good time to sketch a rough mid-to-long-term plan:

1) If AH reveals horses, do we go for a HA rush?
- We have enough commerce and forests to pull it off effectively. We could take out at least 2 (maybe more) AIs. This would require we set up 4 cities, with 1 library (in Lakamha).
- Tech path: AH -> Writing -> HBR -> Archery -> (bulb Math).

2) If no horses, we have elephants.
- We have time to set up a 5th city to be productive by the time we start producing units.
- Tech path: AH -> Writing -> (Settle GS in Lakamha) -> ...not sure, we'll see when we get there.

3) Shoot for lib:
- We grab as many good cities we can. We should explore whether to settle that cow spot near Russia, and that eastern gold. Pissing off Staling by settling towards him is not always a smart idea.
- An early library is not a priority, because we need to get out as many settlers and workers as we can.
- Tech path: AH -> Writing -> Aesthetics -> Partially tech Alpha, trade Aesthetics for Alpha -> Currency.
- Move Palace to Lakamha, and Settle 1st GS there.
- Build another library somewhere to run scientists.

In any case (applying to all 3 scenarios above), our next settle would be that tundra hill to grab the Fish and the Sheep. I'm not sure if Zara will try to get it next. There's that desert gold that he might go after... Will we play it safe and find out the quickest way to get out a Settler and get the Fish? We really need it, because we don't have that much food otherwise, and if Zara settles it, we'll lose the Sheep too.

One possible city would be on the Beaver 3S of Lakamha. That way we get instant +1, and Lakamha can start working its cottages and scientists. To grab the Silver and the Copper, we need another city to the east later.

 

[Robert FIN]

Well played, Robert! JSS is up next, unless you want to play more turns?

@JSS: play at least until AH done, which is 7 turns. Maybe you can play further if we are agreed to go writing next? Can you post a plan with generic ideas on what to do tonight?

YES!! YEAH!! YIPPEE!! YAY!! Wh!! I did it! Mistakeless round ! And yes, JSS is next, I think I did my job for a while now !

 

[sinimusta]

I'd go for HAs or Elepult to get more land early on.

Elepult I think is the safe choice. With siege and collateral damage the k/d ratio will remain reasonable and WEs work well as stack def and city attackers. Also it works a lot longer than HAs so we could get more land (how much is economically sustainable?). It also leaves a stack of units which are quite capable to defend us in time of emergency.

HAs are faster approach, we would get them earlier and so get more land earlier. If we go for them one trick we should try is to locate our neighbours metals with chariots and pillage them if possible.

I don't think taking these options exclude going for lib later. We should recover from these wars early enough. However I think it's better to have more land and thus stronger prod base when reaching the key mil tech for world domination.

One possible city would be on the Beaver 3S of Lakamha. That way we get instant +1, and Lakamha can start working its cottages and scientists. To grab the Silver and the Copper, we need another city to the east later.

Good site to grow cottages for our commerce city. But you meant this as a backfill site right? As you said first the food resources near Zara, then I think we should place a city to Stalin's direction.

 

[JSS]

Ok, let's go with elepult. That means we aim for 5 cities with a library in Lakamha.

Btw., Horse Archers are pretty good too, I'm currently playing the SoM Napoleon game on Deity, and I killed 2.5 AIs pretty easily with them. They are effective until Engineering, because they have a 50% survival rate against Longbows when you give them Flanking II. But yeah, let's do the elepult thing. It's less luck-based, and it gives us more time to set our cities up. The fish city won't be properly online for quite a while (provided that we can get it).

Good site to grow cottages for our commerce city. But you meant this as a backfill site right? As you said first the food resources near Zara, then I think we should place a city to Stalin's direction.

Yes, I should've been more clear on that. First settle the fish/sheep site, then the beaver city. It can work 2 cottages (1 FP, 1 Grassland) while Lakamha uses the corn, works the other FP and the gold while running 2 scientists. Once the GS is ready, Lakamha can give the corn to the beaver city for whipping units. Of course we can keep switching it between the cities as needed.

Not 100% sure about ^ because I don't have the game open now, but I think that should be somewhat accurate.

 

[sampsa]

Elepult sounds good, but we can still go for HAs if we happen to have horsie. Construction is a good tech for Maya anyway, UB gives +3 .

Spoiler :

They both have metal though:

Agreed with city-placement.

Spoiler :

Sheep-city needs monument first of course, as Z's creative crap has already taken over sheep before we settle. I guess next settler will come from Lakamha? 3-pop whip @size 6? Damn, my plan for Rob's turn-set had one mistake... Should have improved gold before cottage, as now Lakamha is unhappy for a while. Mutal whip worker @size 4 I presume? OF into settler, next grow with barracks and whip settler @4.

There are other ways to place ivory-city, I just marked an example. It's very likely that there is something either 2E or 1SE of starting location.