The tech-pace is too slow

[Tatran]

Some leaders spend more commerce on espionage than others.
Lincoln is one of them. In my current game 3500 BC he is already spending
8 commerce per turn on espionage and he can't do a thing with it
until the alphabet.

 

[DrJambo]

I get the feeling that the AI already knows how to tech well. In each of my games there's always been one or two AI civs that start charging away in tech. However, I'd also agree that there's definitely a case where some of the AI civs seem to stagnate a little. This could be from a couple of reasons, namely:

1. They could be spending too much in performing rather ineffectual espionage missions. I've still yet to have the AI steal a tech from me, but if it were able to save and focus its EPs a little better and steal a tech or two, then that would make its tendency to indulge in espionage more worthwhile. If the AI is just arbitrarily spending EP points on poisoning my water or destroying my farm, then it's just wasting commerce in my opinion. These are ok options only once in a while. There should be method behind the madness, and I'm not convinced there is, yet. If espionage was a bit more effective, say, then maybe even the human would better value allocating the commerce to, at the very, protect themselves from AI espionage.

2. No tech brokering. This certainly leads to increasing tech disparity as the game progresses. When techs are relatively cheap and abundant, and it's before Alphabet, disparity between civs isn't that great. However, as the game progresses to the later stages, the tech leaders begin to have a huge advantage with this option on. They can effectively monopolise how the slower teching civs progress, knowing full well that tech traded to them in this manner can never be used by the beneficiary. I like the no tech brokering option, but I definitely feel it gives a distinct advantage to the 'faster' teching civs, in which the human will more than likely be one.

Does anyone have some more concrete evidence of this, i.e. having played BtS with No tech brokering on and off under the same settings (map type, speed, difficulty level)?

Cheers

 

[futurehermit]

Well I don't play with no tech brokering so that is not the source of the problem. Espionage is part of the problem, but apparently solver's patch addresses this and there are still teching problems. It is rare in my games on monarch that an AI keeps pace with me on tech past the medeival era. In Warlords I did not have this experience.

 

[budweiser]

There are fewer turns now in the early game, but still 500 turns overall. I think the second half of the game starts around 1700 AD as in my current game, I am on turn 220 and its 1400 AD already. This could be a factor. The ai algorithm may need X number of turns before it's economy gets up to speed where it can tech fast especially with the added expense of spies.

 

[DrJambo]

Well I don't play with no tech brokering so that is not the source of the problem. Espionage is part of the problem, but apparently solver's patch addresses this and there are still teching problems. It is rare in my games on monarch that an AI keeps pace with me on tech past the medeival era. In Warlords I did not have this experience.

Maybe that's the difference then and we've all got it wrong regarding 'no tech brokering'? Maybe playing without no tech brokering on slows the AI game, or rather, more accurately, allows the human player to speed through it. Maybe the AIs' ability to trade tech among their peers isn't as efficient as the human's in BtS?

 

[futurehermit]

Why would forcing the AI to do more self-research speed up their teching Also, trading is not the issue here, because I am self-researching the 2nd 1/2 of the tech tree by my self.

 

[DrJambo]

Maybe playing without no tech brokering on [....] allows the human player to speed through it. Maybe the AIs' ability to trade tech among their peers isn't as efficient as the human's in BtS?

There's your answer.

 

[futurehermit]

Even one trade that they do would speed up their tech pace beyond what it would be if you clicked an option that prevented them from doing that...

 

[CivDude86]

I like to turn on debug mode on to see what the AI is up to. What I usually find is they will drop to 10% research to upgrade their army and with aggresive AI be paying 10-30 and some even as high as 50GPT on units. You can see all the spys running around. I don't see them spending on espionage much (I always seem to out espionage them without spending anything). Now with higher inflation in the later game they are basically screwed if don't have a descent economy mid game.

 

[Devil Inside]

playing a game on monarch this evening, i left espionage and culture at 10% each as soon as i got them both, and left tech at 70%...never messing with the rates.

i am researching the 2nd half of the tree by myself, and nobody even comes close to me.
strangely, every AI on my continent hates everyone else. there are no friends.

 

[sneaky]

I'm admittedly playing on a relatively low level at the moment, because I'm still adjusting to BTS, but I was already building the Apollo Project when all other civs were still busy learning the knowledge of Education or Astronomy. It's ridiculous! I hope it gets more challenging when I return to my normal level.

 

[DrJambo]

futurehermit, have you, or anybody else for that matter, tried or been using Solver's unofficial updates?

I'm using it and the AIs seem to be researching fine at Monarch level, even with Agg AI on...

 

[futurehermit]

No, I am just waiting for an official patch. If Solver's changes have made things for the better then that is good and I hope these fixes make it into an official patch.

 

[IronCrown]

Why wait? There's really no reason to wait. Why play with the bugs when there's an easy way to get rid of most of them, now.