The Three Pop Challenge

[CrazyG]

Spoiler Empire at Peace :

I'm moving the army towards Russia and enjoying a brief peace. Researching civil service and hoping to build the Forbidden City. I'll wait until my great merchant is born to complete that quest for Kyzyl, then attack Russia.

Spoiler Brazil :

I meet the last player. I should be head of the World Congress after I discover printing press. Then I will research astronomy so that missionaries can cross the ocean, and hopefully convert Brazil and others.

Spoiler War is Declared :

I get to kill a Russian great diplomat. Completing this road to Ife gives enough hammers to finish the Forbidden City.

Spoiler In the South :

This front was a stalemate. The forest is filled with Russian heavy skirmishers, I can't advance. I end up putting a citadel down to slow her advance and kill some units. At sea I get a few kills too. I also get a global iron monopoly.

Spoiler In the North :

First, a brave solider sacrifices himself to pillage that tile with the burning farm and the broken road. Removing the road removes her bridge across the river, stopping her horses from attacking me.

Then Rostov falls, but I can't get across the river without taking a ton of damage. Eventually, she moves most of her units south, where the fighting was more intense. I throw a few units across the sea and get a citadel down. Several Trebuchets get in position, one gets +1 range. I also get a knight down to her last source of horses, and her only iron is pillaged as well.

Spoiler World Congress is Founded :

I propose Judaism as the world religion. The other two proposals are also good for me, hopefully they attract many votes. I can increase my votes before the session, and both Arabia and Russia should support me.

 

[Gazebo]

Just an update. I tried to apply the most recent DLL to fix spying, and it didn't work. So I returned to the old version. I figure screw it, its a challenge, its supposed to be difficult, bring it on.

It only works after you reset your spies by moving them around. Did you try that?

G

 

[crdvis16]

I think diplo is the best choice for victory condition. What's more is that if Babylon or someone else becomes a tech runaway then all it does is open up the proposals you need to pass to win sooner (atomic theory and telecommunications IIRC, for UN and world ideology). You don't have to have the tech to propose them, you just need anyone to have the tech.

 

[CrazyG]

It only works after you reset your spies by moving them around. Did you try that?

G

No but I'm okay without it. It is a challenge after all!

 

[CrazyG]

Spoiler Russia's War :

I peace with Russia, she becomes a vassal. This gives me a big negative diplomacy modifier for having multiple vassals. My missionaries manage to flip Brazil.

I pass World Religion Judaism, I put 6 votes towards it nobody voted against it. This is a bummer, I could have sanctioned Babylon too. I'm starting to struggle with gold, the Renaissance era buildings have a lot of maintenance. I propose Treasure Fleet, the other proposals are luxury bans.

Spoiler Babylon Gets Mad :

He was upset that I had influence with one of his city-states. I told him to screw off, and he wars me. This is excellent!

First of all, it lowers my warmonger (Russian units were getting a 40% combat bonus against me). Secondly, England just signed a defensive pact with me and has a land border with Babylon. She also has a navy that can dominate his nearby city, which Russia also invades. Very appropriately, a golden age dawns.

I take Sippar with ease.

Spoiler Indonesia :

He has 7 cities, I want to flip 4 cities at once to get to follow my religion as the majority, which I do on this turn. Indonesia and Brazil also form a defensive pact with me, which I'm pleased with. It likely means I'll have to fight MOngolia, which is fine as I've been building galleas non-stop, and I'll have navigation soon.

Spoiler Social Policies :

I get a free tech for finishing statecraft. I take Architecture, I hope to build the Taj Mahal, activating a golden age, my mosques, and pushing my culture further.

Babylon is now a full policy ahead of me, and I can't catch him in culture or science without war. He offers me a peace deal, but remains at war with England. I manage to attack a stray caravel twice to get a great admiral before peace, which also gave me a CS ally.

Spoiler Sorry Elizabeth :

I wait until navigation and upgrades to declare war on England. She is surrounded and struggling to even beat nearby city states. She loses multiple great people that disembarked, I think fleeing Bablyon's army.

Spoiler London has Fallen :

I had to time this right so I got the city and Babylon did not. This gives me the Great Lighthouse, and lets me purge Protestantism from the world.

I also take England's city in the north, I have by far the strongest navy in the world.

Spoiler A Bad Turn of Events :

Babylon has fewer hammers than I do, but still beats me here. I'm not sure how, he also built Uffizi this turn, and England became his vassal (I checked and she wouldn't peace with me).

I also notice that Russia can almost claim independence, because her population will soon be bigger than mine. I probably have to fight her again, while also positioning a big army in London. I'd like to attack Babylon, he has the Great Wall but I bet I can take cities by sea. My supply is spread thin and Babylon is building every wonder. Which policy tree to take next?

 

[Moi Magnus]

Babylon has fewer hammers than I do, but still beats me here. I'm not sure how, he also built Uffizi this turn, and England became his vassal (I checked and she wouldn't peace with me).

A long time ago, there was a bug where AIs got an additional turn compared to humans for World Congress wonders.
Could it be that this bug is back / was not fixed?

 

[Gazebo]

A long time ago, there was a bug where AIs got an additional turn compared to humans for World Congress wonders.
Could it be that this bug is back / was not fixed?

No.

 

[CrazyG]

No.

I'm leading in production, and I put all cities on the project. My guess would be that Babylon invested something (like Uffizi, which he built during the project) and with his extra % to investments, had a lot of extra production that poured into the project.

 

[crdvis16]

Are many of your cities puppets? Maybe the hammer count in the demographics screen is taking into account puppets who can't work the WC projects?

Or maybe the demographics screen does something weird like adding up all potential hammer tiles even if they aren't being worked? That would be surprising and a more intense calculation though.

Edit- duh, one of your rules is to raze captured cities to 3 pop so they are all annexed.

 

[Favorius]

Why did not you vassalize Arabia? They would contribute more as vassals.

 

[kawyua]

the change from this patch from 100 to 25 base divisor for yields is such an intense change, i dont think i can play the game normally without being gutted for trying to do so. I feel like I need to be doing some sort of ICS strategy like you are doing to get around it. seeing these screenshots makes it look promising. great challenge! i've always wanted to try a low city pop sprawl strategy, but never felt like it was good.

 

[CrazyG]

Why did not you vassalize Arabia? They would contribute more as vassals.

I did.

 

[CrazyG]

Spoiler War Again :

Babylon puppets England before I do, forcing peace and meaning making him my next target. I pull the navy around the continent and declare war on this turn, when I get a free kill on the scientist. Babylon has the great wall, a tech advantage, and those muskets all have indirect fire.

I can't get London to starve fast enough because I have a food CS ally. All citizens remain laborers though.

Through stupidity I lose one of England's old cities to a city state. Its probably for the better actually. Mongolia has a defensive pact with Babylon so he joins the war. His embarked units are free kills.

Spoiler Free city :

Babylon put a pioneer here just before the war began. Easy war score for me. I also use a spy in his capital to confirm that I can finish the Summer Palace before he will, by running 4 internal trade routes to my capital I'm able to build wonders with just 3 population.

Spoiler Mongolia :

I attack him as well. This wasn't a good move, I need military to actually take hold the cities, but I do to kill a lot of units. The sheer amount of Mongolian units that die in the next 50 turns is depressing.

Spoiler Akkad and Logistics :

My navy slowly but steadily wears this city down, logistics is starting to become common for my frigates. I'm teching towards cruisers as fast as I can.

World congress keeps happening, I just propose sphere of influences for myself. This time I get Hanoi, one of Babylon's allies and a way to create a ground war at his flank.

Spoiler Improving Relationships :

Babylon takes a worker I sent to London (I let him die in order to improve a road), then I retake it. It is originally Arabian, captured by me, but I can give him back for an influence boost. It's funny.

Spoiler Winning The War :

Akkad falls, giving me a city state quest for experience. I peace out soon after. I took Tabriz briefly but Mongolia reclaimed it. I have Mehal Sefari now, they are a solid unique unit, even if the near capital bonus isn't currently relevant.

Spoiler War Again :

Same war, same civs as before. This time, I bring the entire navy down on Babylon, leaving only 4 units to guard against Mongolia. Nothing really happened during the peace other than me upgrading cannons and tercio. This time tyre, a city state ally of mine, falls to Babylon, but I liberate him before the war ends. Babylon had lamost his entire army positioned to attack Tyre and defend Borsippa, not attacking London or Akkad. Hanoi joins my sphere of influence in the middle of the war, creating a sudden problem on Babylon's flank.

Spoiler Dur Kurialgzu :

When this city falls, his units get slaughtered. He doesn't get anti-warmonger fervor on land I control, and I gain control of his forts and citadels. Mehal Sefari can kill a musket in one hit. I have cruisers now and I build the Eiffel tower.

Spoiler Death of England :

She is being a real pain in the butt so I finish her off and Babylon takes peace, agreeing to be my vassal, letting him declare war on Mongolia. Only Mongolia remains as a serious threat.

Spoiler More Killing :

I have captured 4 orders, so each one of those embarked units is a free 36 faith. Thanks Mongolia. Indonesia gets the guts to attack me, I have a CS quest to take Masassar and its crossbows against cruisers.

I think I can finish the game in one more update. Each turn is taking like 10-15 minutes and I'm clearly going to win, its just about waiting until telecommunications unlocks.

 

[CrazyG]

Not as many pictures this time, sorry.

Spoiler Samarkand :

I liberate the city state. This war is no contest, I have 24 cruisers and 6 frigates, all with 5-6 promotions, and 6 great admirals.

Spoiler Vancouver :

City state gets liberated. I'm killing like 10 mongol units a turn. I advanced to the modern era, giving me some vassal tribute. I start building landships. I can send to this continent to speed things up. I am keeping defensive units near Russia because she can claim independence soon.

Spoiler Indonesia :

Gatling guns against crossbows and knights. He gets slaughtered, he can't hold his cities. I think after one more cities falls he'll offer capitulation.

Mongolia is offering peace and capitulation, but I want to take some more cities don't think he can hold onto a single coastal city. I've got New Sarai and I have enough military to take the entire northern island, but it will be slow.

Spoiler Demographics :

Lowest population, highest gold, production, and food output. I'm matching Babylon in culture, and in science I have fewer techs but I'm actually an era ahead of him (the spy will steal his first tech in only 23 more turns!)

I don't see any way I can lose from this point, Brazil is the only civ who isn't my vassal and he still isn't in the industrial era. The AI combined are a total of 8 non-coastal cities, which are the only locations the AI might be able to defend.

 

[crdvis16]

Worst part about photojounals: having to play through an obvious win or loss just for the sake of finishing the photojournal

 

[CrazyG]

Worst part about photojounals: having to play through an obvious win or loss just for the sake of finishing the photojournal

I think I'll play till I vassalize everyone, does that sound fair?

 

[crdvis16]

I think I'll play till I vassalize everyone, does that sound fair?

I wouldn't fault you for declaring victory now, especially if the turns are getting too long. I don't really see any possibility of you losing even if the AI banded together against you militarily and via the WC. Maybe if somehow your happiness irrecoverably tanked? Happiness is one way that a wide warmonger could implode but happiness is probably the one area where having low pop cities is preferable.

I'd probably say you should move on to one of the other challenges unless you just really like seeing things through.

 

[CrazyG]

I wouldn't fault you for declaring victory now, especially if the turns are getting too long. I don't really see any possibility of you losing even if the AI banded together against you militarily and via the WC. Maybe if somehow your happiness irrecoverably tanked? Happiness is one way that a wide warmonger could implode but happiness is probably the one area where having low pop cities is preferable.

I'd probably say you should move on to one of the other challenges unless you just really like seeing things through.

My spy, after more than 100 hundred turns, finally was able to steal a tech, and it crashed the game. I suppose I updated the DLL wrong?

 

[Stalker0]

The spy was telling you its time to move on, you have proved your point

 

[Rekk]

Was there any take-away from this playthrough?