The Touhou Mod Development Thread

[nvdr]

So since this thread is back, any new regarding any planned touhou civs? I know Yuyuko and Reimu have been discussed, but otherwise I've seen nothing about them.

Regarding Yukari I'm not even sure what would be good for her that's even possible in game. She does need something done though. She probably needs to be more complex for sure though.


Also, I played a domination only game as Suika recently and it went very well. Might try her again sometime soon on a larger scale.

 

[bouncymischa]

I'm still hoping to get Shinki, Mamizou, and Yumemi updated as I've done with my other civs. They don't really need much in the way of balance changes -- it's more to add Events and Decisions compatibility. Shinki is actually pretty much finished, but I've been sidetracked with another project I've been working on.

I've got tentative plans for Reimu, Byakuren, and Toyosatomimi no Miko. Given that I could make the Branch Shrine UI fairly easily at this point, and Typhlomence has been making progress converting a Miko model from a Civ 4 missionaries pack, it wouldn't be too hard to try and get Reimu into the game.

I know Typhlomence has been experimenting with getting models from other sources into the game, and I believe one of the Aya civs uses a MMD model for Aya for a hero unit. So it would be quite interesting if we could start using MMD models -- I'd love to have a more Marisa-like Witch model. :3

Also, glad to hear Suika went well -- I think I honestly need to tone down her Expansionism setting a bit, because on Huge maps she can really start running away with the game unless you go to war against her early. X3

 

[nvdr]

Since this event mentions Kanako and showed up as Utsuho I figured I'd ask about it here: why does this event refer to Utsuho as American?

Spoiler :

 

[Vicevirtuoso]

That's actually one of Armstrong's events...guess I've gotta look into why that one's popping for other Civs!

 

[Dr. Strange]

Utsuho for President 2016

 

[nvdr]

Utsuho for President 2016

I can certainly agree with her late game self-nuking strategy.


Armstrong was present in that game so I guess I'm not surprised that that event was for him instead.


Also, I thought up some ideas for wonders based on Gensokyoan locations after seeing that trio of Game of Thrones related packs:

Spoiler :

Hakugyokurou - Great Work of Writing slot(s), free Castle, Requires Mountain (similar to Machu Picchu and Neuschwanstein)

Hakurei Shrine - Units trained in city receive offensive combat strength promotion, city is less effected by hostile missionaries, Requires Holy City (Perhaps spawns a unique Reimu unit?)

Moriya Shrine - Provides science and faith bonuses, in the form of direct yields, as well as a single scientist slot, requires Mountain and Holy City (perhaps spawns a Sanae unit or a Mishaguji unit?)

Scarlet Devil Mansion - +1 Culture from forest and lakes, free castle, requires Lake

Myouren Temple - Units trained in city receive defensive combat strength promotion, religious units are cheaper and weaker, requires Holy City

Suzunaan - Provides gold for each work of writing in the city, comes with a free work of writing (need to get a name from FS, perhaps the First Kanji Manuscript Necronomicon?)

Eientei - 1% growth for each specialist active up to 15%, one scientist slot, free Hospital, requires Jungle

Chireiden - +3 Uranium, one engineer slot, free Cathedral, spreads fallout to the six surrounding tiles

Bhavaagra - +2 Heavenly Peaches luxury, (additional bonuses to be determined, probably faith based)

Kishinjou - no idea tbh, just making sure it's on the list

Senkai - no idea tbh, just making sure it's on the list

TORIFUNE - variation on the Hubble/ISS maybe?

No idea how much of that is viable to code or if they're particularly balanced or what techs they'd go with, but I'd be willing to find art assets for these. (TORIFUNE would probably be the hardest one >__>)

Also, ideally the various religious heads' wonders would be impossible to build in the same city, making it impossible to have say, both the Hakurei and Moriya shrines in one city.

 

[Dr. Strange]

Well, Moriya Shrine is already in the game as a replacement for the Grand Temple if you're playing as Moriya Shrine, although you can also get it a little bit earlier than Theology if you're playing with Events and Decisions and have enough gold on hand. Perhaps something similar could be done with the Hakurei Shrine, Eientei, and so forth. I'd note that Chireiden is either useless or laughably overpowered, depending on whether or not Utsuho builds it and at what point in the tech tree it comes, given the insane tile yields she gets from fallout.

 

[nvdr]

Well, Moriya Shrine is already in the game as a replacement for the Grand Temple if you're playing as Moriya Shrine, although you can also get it a little bit earlier than Theology if you're playing with Events and Decisions and have enough gold on hand. Perhaps something similar could be done with the Hakurei Shrine, Eientei, and so forth.

See the idea here was that these would be world wonders that anyone could build. So that say, Liquid Ocelot could build the SDM if he so chose, instead of it being exclusive to a decision Remi can enact.

After all, it's far more likely that Shinki would end up in a forest next to lakes than Remi, who would end up in barren tundra or desert rather than ever give anyone a chance to use the bonus from her unique library.

I'd note that Chireiden is either useless or laughably overpowered, depending on whether or not Utsuho builds it and at what point in the tech tree it comes, given the insane tile yields she gets from fallout.

Yeah, that's mostly just me making up something weird, it probably wouldn't be a great thing to actually have it do. (Unless the fallout was a Utsuho only feature?)

I do think Utsuho needs a way to spread fallout in her own land other than self-nuking though. >__>



Major Touhou landmarks like these would be great as a set of general wonders independent from the actual civs. It'd just take some work making actual good bonuses, those are just ones I made up in a few minutes to get discussion rolling.

 

[bouncymischa]

I think it would be funnier to add little wings to the gatling gunner model than to add gatling guns to a custom fairy model.

Working on the Cyber-Elf model for my Dr. Weil civ reminded me of this old idea, because I've been toying around with some of the Civ 4 fairy models. I may be able to rig a fairy to the Scout animations so they can throw fireballs around...

It would be fun to get back into Touhou modding again. Shinki's E&D update is pretty much ready to go (leaving only Yumemi and Mamizou), and I've still got Reimu half-completed. I'll have to dig back through this thread and find out what her uniques were like again... X3

 

[nvdr]

I've still got Reimu half-completed. I'll have to dig back through this thread and find out what her uniques were like again... X3

Her proposed uniques are pretty great and I'm totally not biased due to my role in developing the ideas.

I really want to play the Reimu that we figured out months ago, tbh.

 

[bouncymischa]

Her proposed uniques are pretty great and I'm totally not biased due to my role in developing the ideas.

I really want to play the Reimu that we figured out months ago, tbh.

To be honest, I'm trying to remember the details of what we worked out! I've got the graphical elements finished (a Miko model and a Branch Shrine model, as well as the icon atlases), and have the basic core code done so I can get her to appear in-game. But I was trying to remember the details of what we worked out.

As I recall, the uniques were the Donation Box (an EIC replacement) and the Miko. The Miko had the option of building a Branch Shrine instead of a Citadel. I think the Donation Box gave a bonus in Faith and Gold for each trade route that had its city as the destination. I know part of the UA was that she couldn't settle new cities (but could purchase in puppets) and got gold from killing enemies. I can't recall exactly what bonuses the Miko had, aside from being able to pass through terrain...

I would like to get her finished soon, so any details you can recall and remind me of would be greatly appreciated!

 

[nvdr]

I went back to some older pages to hunt down the details. Here's some quotes, including the initial idea post I had made. (This post is gonna contain a lot of quotes btw.)

Spoiler :

Now this is just a loose idea I came up with while playing a different game entirely, but here's what I came up with for Reimu:

UA: Obviously it'd be called Fantasy Nature, since that's her "ultimate" ability/card. No making settlers or annexing cities. Can buy with gold and faith in puppets. -5 or 10% Food and Gold. All units get a unique promotion that gives gold when attacking cities or killing units. Even more if it's a barb camp. (Less for actual barbs though, no gold farming.)

UU: Hakurei Shrine Maiden, General replacement. Takes longer to generate but ignores terrain and provides slightly more of a combat bonus. (Or perhaps does something else entirely separate from combat. Like stationing them in cities gives a buff to yields?)

UB: Donation Box: provides extra gold based on amount of puppeted cities, can only be built in the capital. (Maybe as a replacement for the EIC if that's possible?)

Some of that's probably unreasonable, but as I said it's a loose idea.

Hmm, I always thought her final attack was "Fantasy Heaven"... but according to the wiki, at least, you appear to be right! Although I'm halfway tempted to use "Fantasy Seal", because her civ is somewhat "sealed"...

The ideas you've got sound pretty good, though! I know I'd tossed around the idea of a "donation box" UB before, but since I hadn't thought of going OCC before it was a bit odd. There's no issue with replacing a National Wonder with a UB version, so making an EIC UB should be find. It'd be amusing if it also gave a bonus to trade routes... need those people making donations!

The Shrine Maiden UU sounds fine... could easily give it an ability where it provides a buff while stationed in a city, as I know several other UUs do it.

As for the UA, I'm not entirely sure it needs a base penalty -- isn't being an OCC challenging enough? The additional unit ability would be easy (I imagine it'd use a dummy promotion using something like Honor's finisher). Gold farming from barbs doesn't actually sound too bad, as Gensokyo's mikos have a reputation for going out and beating up random youkai, don't they?

I've been putting more thought into my Reimu idea that I posted previously and I've come to the conclusion that it's not exactly right to have her only source of extra gold be military actions. (Especially if there's some sort of gold penalty applied.) So I was thinking that there should also be some sort of gold bonus based on tourism as well. After all, people visiting the shrine means donations.

I'm not sure if that should be part of the previously mentioned Donation Box national wonder though. If the DB is an IEC replacement, the tourism gold could be on a market replacement, perhaps even as the only yield the building has. (Call it a Goshintai?)

I also do think there should be SOME penalty to gold, but perhaps it could be in the form of a hidden building given at the start of the game that has high maintenance (3-4 gold?), forcing you to find a quick solution and making it easier to overcome in the long term versus a flat percentage.

With Shinki and Yumemi near completion, I've been starting to move ahead with brainstorming the next set of mods I'd like to make. I've got a model for mushroom patches I can use for Marisa, and the people making fantasy models have promised a "witch" model eventually, so she's starting to take shape. So I've started brainstorming Reimu as well.

I'm not entirely sure about the idea of penalizing her gold output yet -- as much as poverty is part of Reimu's character, it's also an issue in game design that players tend to dislike penalties. Ultimately I'll have to see how she develops as a civ.

A Tourism-to-gold/faith conversion may be possible -- there is a Player.GetTourism() Lua function I can use to find out how much Tourism Reimu is generating per turn, and I can give her gold and/or faith in proportion to that, much like the Moriya Shrine converts faith into science.

Another idea I've been strongly considering is having the Donation Box add gold/faith from trade routes -- specifically, producing bonus gold/faith for every trade route connected to the city.

A third idea I've been considering is giving the Shrine Maiden units the ability to build shrine improvements. I've got art for a shrine improvement sitting around that I was debating how to use (I don't want to give Reimu a standard UI), but while working on Yumemi I figured out how to make a Citadel replacement. Since the Shrine Maidens would be a Great General replacement, it would be quite possible for them to build shrine improvements instead of (or in addition to) Citadels. So what would the shrine improvement do? While working on improvements, I found out that you can determine if a certain plot has a trade route going through it. So the idea I've been tossing around is that these shrine improvements could be parked on or near trade routes, and generate additional gold or faith for Reimu.

So there's multiple ideas I've been tossing around, and admittedly, all three could actually be used. The first could be part of the UA, along with the "get gold from killing units" thing (which I'd like to definitely keep as part of her UA). The second would be part of the EIC replacement. The third would give the Shrine Maidens something to do when not helping fight things, although I'll probably also give them the ability to do something when stationed in cities.

Either way, there's a lot of different options.

A thought would be to have some way to enable the penalty if you want it, but otherwise leaving it out. I know ViceVirtuoso had his spoiler Madoka civs disabled but able to be enabled in an older version of the pack, so maybe there's a way to do that here to whatever applies the penalty?



Tourism seems like the best way to allow for a "peaceful" money source, although it probably can't be a raw Tourism = Gold since that means you could get 1000+ gold per turn from tourism alone, even if it's only in the late game.

The donation box trade route thing also seems very viable, especially since being a OCC civ with no annexing options means there's no real reason to not build national wonders. Hopefully the bonus will still apply to her own internal routes as well, given how those would need to be set up.



I'd think a shrine should provide faith, although probably not to the extent of a holy site, as well as some kind of military buff since it's a general's tile improvement. (I wouldn't say it should be like the citadel though.) Other than that I'm not sure what exactly it should do. The trade route thing is a cool idea though.

Also my suggestion is to call the UI a Branch Shrine. While the only instance of one in the canon is a Moriya one at the Hakurei shrine, it's the most logical name for a shrine as a tile improvement. It's a shame that you can't do achievements for mods, because having one for making a branch shrine within a tile of Moriya's original capital would be a great one. (Since it seems you'll be the one making Reimu, there could still be some sort of thing between the two.)



A thought is that if you had all of these things, especially if their bonuses are potent enough, a gold penalty would be next to meaningless after the early game.

I'm definitely very interested to see Reimu in action with all these ideas, especially since I'm a fan of interesting mechanics on OCC civs. (Let's be honest though, nothing will beat Big Boss.)

Also here's the big question:

What would Reimu's colors be given that both Austria and Japan exist?.

Reimu -- I've discussed most of the ideas I've got for her already, although I haven't started any coding. (I've been working on models for the Branch Shrine, though.) The main question I've been having is what her focus should be -- she'll be a POCCY civ that puppets cities she conquers, with an emphasis on military expansion. I'm mostly wondering how much I should include faith as a focus for her, as it is a usable resource, but at the same time she's not a very good miko at building up faith. On the other hand, faith does seem like a good secondary resource to get from her various uniques, such as the Branch Shrine and Donation Box.

One option I considered is to make her a bit of a growth civ -- since there's lots of fanon of people donating food to her to help keep her fed, the Branch Shrines and Donation Box could generate a food bonus instead of faith...

For Reimu, I'm planning to go with a wine-red (something like England's red, as opposed to Persia's) and cream (rather like Marisa).

Whenever Reimu is made, it might make sense to have her get some sort of festival/viewing party type thing that lets her get more tourism or something.

Oh here's a question: could you hypothetically have a decision implemented for both the Hakurei Shrine and Moriya Shrine civs that only appear when both are present?

Because the idea I mentioned before of an achievement for building a branch shrine at the moriya capital could be worked into a special decision along the lines of the national formation decisions in EU4.

Obviously it's not possible to change what civ you're playing as mid-game, so some sort of Unified Shinto Shrines formation isn't possible, but you could still have it exist as a big bonus for subjugating the other shrine.

Hypothetically it'd be something like a big faith reward and some other useful things, while requiring that you own the rival shrine's capital and they do not exist at all.

The main gist I got from rereading these is:

UA: Fantasy Heaven: Can't build settlers or annex cities. Can purchase with faith and gold in puppets. Bonus gold from defeating barbarians. Tourism is converted to gold and/or faith.

UB: Donation Box: EIC replacement, gains bonus gold/faith for trade routes connected to city. (A bonus from puppeted cities was also discussed, perhaps food/growth based. There's probably more that could be done with this.)

UU: Shrine Maiden: General replacement, Takes longer to generate but ignores terrain and provides slightly more of a combat bonus. Can build Branch Shrine improvement. (A bonus when stationed in a city was discussed.)

and then the Branch Shrine was basically a mini-citadel that provides faith and was also going to get some sort of bonus related to trade routes passing through it? Something like that.

 

[bouncymischa]

I went back to some older pages to hunt down the details. Here's some quotes, including the initial idea post I had made. (This post is gonna contain a lot of quotes btw.)

The main gist I got from rereading these is:

UA: Fantasy Heaven: Can't build settlers or annex cities. Can purchase with faith and gold in puppets. Bonus gold from defeating barbarians. Tourism is converted to gold and/or faith.

UB: Donation Box: EIC replacement, gains bonus gold/faith for trade routes connected to city. (A bonus from puppeted cities was also discussed, perhaps food/growth based. There's probably more that could be done with this.)

UU: Shrine Maiden: General replacement, Takes longer to generate but ignores terrain and provides slightly more of a combat bonus. Can build Branch Shrine improvement. (A bonus when stationed in a city was discussed.)

and then the Branch Shrine was basically a mini-citadel that provides faith and was also going to get some sort of bonus related to trade routes passing through it? Something like that.

Thanks nvdr! I thought that was the basic gist of the design we'd discussed, but couldn't remember if there was any particular details I'd missed.

While the forums were down I made good progress on getting Reimu done -- I'd say she's about 90% complete at this point? I did a little playtesting, but I'm not very good with Venice-style civs, so I could use some additional feedback. If you'd like, I can toss a copy of my current design up on dropbox for you (or anyone else who wants) to try.

I'm suspecting that I may need to increase the Miko generation rate, although this may also be due to my general reluctance to go to war, so I don't generate many Great Generals. I got a couple in my game and used them for Branch Shrines, which worked nicely, but since Pedro refused to send any trade routes to me I couldn't really test the Donation Box. I did finally capture another city and used it to send a trade route back, but the total bonus seemed a little lacklustre. It might be better if more people actually sent trade routes, though...

 

[nvdr]

I'm always willing to mess around with WIP civs. And given that I helped with a lot of the concepts, Reimu especially interests me. (Also she's the first no-settler touhou civ which has promise.)

A thought would be to give a free Miko with something like the Grand Temple or Donation Box. (Dunno if one Miko per National Wonder would be OP or not.)

 

[bouncymischa]

Okay, so the current WIP version of Reimu can be downloaded here. Some of the text entries are likely incomplete or incorrect, but mechanically most of the functionality should be there.

Currently, I have the civ give a free Miko with Philosophy, much like Venice gets a free Merchant of Venice with Optics. In fact, I should at least list the current uniques:

UA: Cannot build settlers or annex cities. Can buy in puppeted cities with gold. Units that kill enemy models gain gold. Gain a free Miko with Philosophy.

UU: Miko - replaces Great General. Ignores terrain costs when moving, and when it starts the turn in a city, that city gains a defense bonus roughly equal to that of Walls. Can build a Branch Shrine in addition to a Citadel.

The Branch Shrine culture bombs like a Citadel does, but can be built in neutral territory. It also accesses any resource it's built over. Finally, any foreign trade unit that passes within two hexes of a Branch Shrine contributes 5 gold and 5 faith. (If it's within range of more than one Branch Shrine, it'll donate more than once.) It also generates a basic yield of +2 Faith and +2 Gold.

UB: Donation Box -- replaces East India Company. Generates an additional +2 gold and +2 faith for each trade route that has the city with the Donation Box as its destination. (This includes internal trade routes.)

----

The Branch Shrine is probably the most complex part of the mod, but it does provide some choices -- building it outside of your territory may access more trade routes and desirable resources, but you don't get the basic yields from them.

 

[nvdr]

So in trying to play Reimu with the other touhous, I ran into an issue where the worker interface didn't function, and I'm pretty sure it's due to one of the other civs, since the rest of my mod set worked fine with just Reimu.

But Reimu is working fine on her own, I just need to also work on my aggressive playing to figure things out. (I'm also gonna check the Branch Shrine when made/owned by Eirin.)

 

[nvdr]

I am apparently incapable of early game warfare. So while I can't test Reimu in that context I did get this screencap:

 

[bouncymischa]

Hmmm, I guess the model isn't rigged as well as I'd hoped? I'll have to doublecheck the animations in Granny.

I know my brother has had them show up a couple of times as AI civs in his games, but she hasn't seemed terribly effective. I'm not sure if she ever built any Branch Shrines, and I'm wondering if this may be due to a lack of Mikos. (When I spawn a Miko, the game does seem to encourage me to build a Branch Shrine like a Holy Site because of its yields, so I'm guessing if the AI had Mikos they'd build Branch Shrines with them.) The Donation Box also seems rather hit-and-miss, as it really depends on getting trade routes, which civs sometimes seem really reluctant to establish.

I'm thinking I may have to brainstorm up some more passives for her...

 

[NaughtyTanuki]

After fiddling with SDK for a while, I've started getting ideas of a Touhou faction myself, though I'm not too sure whether or not I'll actually have the time or resources to go through with it. The basic gist of it is a bunch of human outsiders, saved from certain youkai consumption and led by Rika, everybody's favorite engineering prodigy, stationed on a certain bridge near a certain shrine. The fact that most outsiders are usually from relativity modern countries would mean that the faction would be technology heavy, while also production heavy fitting in with Rika's theme as a mechanical genius.

<Title Pending>

Ability: Mechanized Prodigy - Manufacturies Produce an additional 8 Science. Great engineers are earned 50% faster. Obtain a great engineer with the passing of each era.

Current idea for civ ability. The intent is that Rika begins the game being a relatively weak adversary, but once her ability kicks in, steadily and rapidly becomes both a scientific and productive powerhouse, propelling her into the late game where her UUs come in:

UU 1:

Evil Eye Sigma (Replaces Helicopter Gunship)

Strength: 90
Movement: 5
Base Cost: 525
Technology: Electronics
Resource Used: Aluminum

The original flying tank, and the reason why you should learn to fear the outsiders during late game. Being both stronger and available earlier then the unit it replaces, EES gives Rika the ability to pretty much own warfare of the Atomic Era on a silver platter, especially in the department of mechanized warfare. On the flipside, its also slightly slower and more expensive to produce, but that's partially offset by the fact that Rika likely has several manufacturies up by then. Though the chances of running into one are comically unlikely as per standard, EES also counters the GDR in the Information age, while remaining ineffective against Mechanized Infantry and weak to X-COM Squads and Mobile SAMs.

UU 2:

Shrine Tank (Replaces Landship)

Strength: 60
Movement: 4
Base Cost: 250
Technology: Combustion
Becomes Obsolete With: Laser
Upgrades Into: Tank

Note: Starts with Blitz

Simply put, the Shrine Tank is a cheaper and resourceless Landship, with the added bonus of blitz off the bat, allowing Rika to field a massive swarm of these weapons come modern era to overwhelm her adversaries. They remain useful into the atomic era as cheap damage sponges which can stall and block things.

Other notes:

A possibility is giving some units unique models, but I'm still trying to get such software to work properly in the first place.

Rika has two UUs rather then a UU and a UB/UI because I can't really think of any that would suit her or the outsiders. The current intent is to make them scientific and relatively passive until late game, where they pull a 360 Gandhi-style and start using their UUs to steamroll the opposition.

how is rika going

 

[NaughtyTanuki]

no activity, is any one still playing this.

I was looking foreword to an update to Reimus AI, and new civs.

I guess https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=526699129 will have to hold me for a bit.