The University of Immortals

[silverbullet]

Actually I change my vote to Sury as well. I just thought that we just finished a game with a spiritual leader, so it's time to try something else.
Pangea is nice, but I think I would prefer inland lake if we are going with a map where we have early contact with everyone. It is a bit more versatile (harbours, coastal attacks, etc.)

 

[mystyfly]

I'll also play again (once I'm done warring with monty that is... ), I also vote for sury. Other leader I'd like would be Zara.

 

[Sleepless]

@ silverbullet

Spoiler :

on your win and well played.

@ mystyfly

Spoiler :

Looking forward to reading about you taking the to Han. Looked to be going very well at the last report.

@All

No preference as leader in next game. Wouldn't mind Zara/Sury. Any creative leader always seems to do pretty well in my games. Prefer not to play inland sea as my computer is really old and struggles with lots of units and land in the late game.

 

[Gliese 581]

I'm not sure I'll join in since I'm still playing the Monty game but if I do I like the idea of pangaea and Sury/Zara. Epic of course..

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'll keep playing these regardless of how badly I get my tail kicked in. Any leader is fine .

 

[shyuhe]

phew. I finally caught up. Late SS win.

Spoiler :

After I took Paris and peace, I regrouped a bit before redeclaring on Louis. I finished him off in a reasonable time frame, but I completely gutted my economy in the process. So I had to pain stakingly rebuild my economy from scratch so that I could win liberalism and go for rifling. Unfortunately the other continent was Buddhist happy and Hannibal was teching very well on his own (as far as I could tell, he was getting only trade routes from me and almost no tech trading). So he forced my hand early and I ended up having to war cav/rifle vs. rifle This led to a really long war - I think it lasted well over 200 years.

I did something I normally don't do - which is to whip my cities silly to combat WW and churn out troops. I'm not sure if it was the best decision in this case. Although I won the war rather easily from the converted hammers, I dealt a serious blow to my economy and since I didn't have many farms, my cities took a VERY long time to regrow. I whipped most of my cities to under 10 pop during the war. I probably should have made some farms to regrow the cities faster but that's hindsight.

I think I would have lost an SS race if I hadn't been able to build the internet (I nabbed 3-4 SS techs with it). Once I got the internet in place though, the rest was mostly hitting enter. I had tons of great production cities and my secondary cottage cities were more than capable of building the thrusters/casings in ~10 turns. I launched towards the end of the 19th century:

Final score, about 60k (the late date really hurt).

 

[Gliese 581]

This game took me a while to finish for various reasons but here's the final part.

Part 7 (1390-1834):

Spoiler :

I soon came to regret that I singed a peace treaty with Hannibal as he vassalized to Gilgamesh the turn after. I usually play with no vassals in my offline games and I had overlooked this possibility.

This left Hannibal with two culturally strong cities and most of my troops trapped in Carthage where they would remain for quite some time. Gilgamesh vassalized of some cities to create his second vassal Hammurabi.

I focused on infrastructure once more as I finished up researching education.
After that it was time to go for a tech I could trade around so my next researches was Gunpowder followed by Chemistry.

Then Hannibal renounced his vassalge to Gilgamesh and it was time to push the war once more. Unfortunately Hannibal had managed to stay ahead in tech despite being reduced to two cities and my economy still struggled from the drawn-out war against him earlier.

Willem and Frederick had switched to free religion and Gilgamesh was looking weaker and weaker so I had started trading with Frederick again and was improving my relations with both him and Willem.
A GA was born in Tenochtitlan and I used him for a golden age. After researching Chemistry I went for Military Science which I traded around a bit.

After getting economics I switched to free market and got a +98 gpt at 50% research. The next tech was Steel.

Another look at my demographics.

After Steel had finished I did some more trading.

I also got representation at some point from Hammurabi if I remember correctly. I switched to representation for some extra science.
This was enough to reach WFYABTA with Frederick. I research replaceable parts and rifling to get some better units up. My next gp was a Great Merchant which I used for a trade mission to get some gold to upgrade my armies.
Afer researching Corporations I decided to get biology next since it would make a good trading tech.
The tech situation after researching biology:

I then started another round of trading.

I could've gotten Divine Right as well from Hammurabi but since the wonders were built and the religion founded I saw no need to further risk more WFYABTAs.
The tech situation after trading biology:

I constructed some national wonder during this time, Ironworks in my HE city Texcoco, Wall Street in the capital Paris and The Hermitage in Carthage to fight of Hannibal's culture there. I had built the Oxford UNiversity in Tenochtitlan earlier. It later turned out I should have done it the other way around and put Wall Street in Tenoch with merchant specialists and Oxfords in Paris since it turned out I had a high science rate through the rest of the end game whereas I had anticipated going for domination when I started my war against Hannibal. It was to bloody and left me to far behind though and I also wanted to finish the game quickly, but more on that a little later.
At this point I discovered Gilgamesh was WHEOOHRN again but I wasn't worried that he would go after me since I had a good power rating and out of his reach anyhow even though he managed to sneak in that city on my continent.
I researched Assembly LIne and traded it to Hammurabi.

Justinian had gone straight for Rocketry and built The Apollo Program. I was just about to attack Hannibal when he once more vassalized to Gilgamesh.
Gilgamesh finished the UN which was excellent since he was fairly disliked and I became the second candidate for Secretary-General since I had the largest land and population.

I went for medicine after AL to enable some more trading though I spent some turns generating gold to upgrade my largely obsolete armies. Assembly Line still had some trading potential.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn131/Gliese5812/ImmortalMonty1000000.jpg

Then I traded medicine.

(continued in next post)

 

[Gliese 581]

Part 7 (1390-1834, continued):

Spoiler :

I finally generated a GP in Tenochtitlan and used it to build the hindu shrine in Paris. I had delayed building temples in Tenochtitlan which I probably should have done a little earlier to get the shrine.

I decided that I'd had enough of the Carthaginians as Hannibal culture-bombed Hippo to steal even more tiles. Vassal or no it was time to push the attack.
I declared war on Gilgamesh as he was liked less than Hannibal. This put me at war with him and his vassals, Hannibal and Hammurabi.

Larsa soon fell and was followed by Hippo.

After medicine I figured I could give Al Gore a shot so I researched Industrialism then went for Plastics which would also enable me to hook up the only oil-resource available which was off-shore.

I traded industrialism to Justinian.

After I had gotten the GP to build the Hindu Shrine I tried to generate a Great Engineer to found Mining Inc. and lo and behold the next GP generated was indeed a GE at 10% odds. I constructed Mining Inc. in Paris.

A couple of turns later the Carthaginians were finally put to rest.

To my surprise, noone had yet touched Sakae on the Island between me and Frederick and the 'barbarians' had advanced to Rifling and had 4 towns up and running. I captured it of course.

After computers I started building The Internet in Texcoco and next went after superconductors to get research labs with the intention of going for a space race victory.
THen I realized that I could probably bribe my way to a diplomatic victory and get a quick end to the game. After opening up an extra trade route I had ran for diplomatic victory for fun since everyone and their mother hated or disliked Gilgamesh and I had secured the support of Justinian after getting him up to friendly via all the trading mostly. After growing my population a bit more I only needed to secure the votes of either Willem who were at +6 or Frederick at +5 to gain the needed majority as long as I kept friendly with Justinian.

When it was almost time for the next election I bribed Willem and Justinian.

This was enough to put them both at friendly and two turns later..

The world was awed at the friendly Montezuma and his unfailing willingness to solve problems through negotiations rather than violence.

The score:

A quick end to a long-lasting game, approximately 30hrs and 35 minutes.

I probably forgot a thing or two since this was a long session. Now I can finally read all the spoilers here. I'll try to be a bit faster with Suleiman.

 

[Sleepless]

@ Gliese 581

Spoiler :

Well done on your win and good report.

 

[Gliese 581]

@ Gliese 581

Spoiler :

Well done on your win and good report.

Thanks man, I enjoyed reading up on your game here. I'm learning quite a bit from looking at your 820 AD Suleiman save as well.

 

[Sleepless]

Thanks man, I enjoyed reading up on your game here. I'm learning quite a bit from looking at your 820 AD Suleiman save as well.

Like how not to play an immortal game of Civ?

Being serious I'm not sure whether I'm doing good or bad in this game. Next turnset will tell all. Played a couple more turns and lost Lib in 960 so moving more towards the bad.

 

[Olodune]

I also enjoy the later reports as they come in. Nice win Gliese.

 

[Shurdus]

Hey guys!

Been very busy so I did not catch this thread until recently.

Spoiler :

I tried to rush the French as well, building loads of axemen to do so.

My research however has dropped to a dramatic 0%, with my units on strike. I do not fully understand what it is I am doing wrong - that is why I am playing on immortal anyway, to learn. I do not fully understand what techs I should pick at what moment and why. I just went with CoL because of the UB, but CoL is taking ages - literally to complete and research has halted because of it.

How can I avoid disasters like this? What should I do instead? Thanks in advance!

Here is my saved game. Any advice is much appreciated!

 

[Dirk1302]

@Shurdus

Spoiler :

Hi Shurdus welcome,
I can't look at the save right now. To avoid crashing your economy:

- Be sure to have writing
- Before rushing but after writing set tech to zero and accumulate gold.
- Try to pickup alpha when making peace

After rushing

- research with 2 scientists in as many libraries as possible
- if you've got alpha set production to research in your production cities

I remember in my game that i could just avoid a strike because i had saved gold before the rush, scientist and production research netted me +/- 40 beakers/turn allowing me to research Col in 8 turns or so. Alternatively you
can goto Currency first depending on circumstances.

After Col, chop/whip courthouses and research towards currency.

A lot of this was discussed in more detail in the first pages of this thread, valuable info .

 

[Sleepless]

@Shurdus

Spoiler :

Just loaded up your file and had a quick look and played a couple of turns. What I did was dial research down to 0. Put Teno and the city above it on maximum commerce ie work the seatiles which stopped unit strikes etc. Then attacked. You have a decent amount of troops. I'd take Rheims (remember not to attck over the river move 1E first) then Paris then see how many troops you have left after that but would try and take the city SE of Paris, Orleans I think. Then take it from there. I wouldn't make peace to soon as when you attack him again Han will be annoyed with you for attacking a friend. Don't over do it though make sure you have enough troops to keep what lands you take.

One thing we have learnt in these games is the benefit of exploring. I would have sent a wb out early to help map the lands and would have explored the mainland better as well.

As for teching once you have lost a few troops, gained some cities you should have some gold in the bank and can up research. CoL and Currency are essential for a growing empire. Pottery for cottages and alpha for building research help the tech rate as well.

Good luck with your next turns and I'll be interested to see how you do.

Dirk makes a good point about libraries and running scientists as well which I missed.

 

[Shurdus]

Thnx for the quick replies guys.

@ Dirk1302 and Sleepless

I decided to load again instead, see what I can do with the new info.

Spoiler :

I did run scientists but I did not accumulate gold. I timed my attack in such a way that I could pay my standing army by pillaging Paris.

Then I took the city SE of Paris and held it. Now I have a small army left, not sure if I should push on or not. I have spent LOTS of time researching CoL yet again, close to 25 turns or so. I did this because I was not at all sure what else to research as every useful tech took ages.

I think my main goal will be now to sigh a peace and then get a useful tech in return. then I'll build up my army again, repair my infrastructure somewhat - cottages would be very welcome right now, maybe a temple or two - and then finish off those French.

Any tips would be much appreciated again. thnx guys! You rock!

 

[Dirk1302]

@Shurdus

Spoiler :

I'll take a look at your save tonight, Col may take 25 turns now but it'll probably speed up along the way when captured cities come out of revolt and you'll whip libraries there. Added advantage: you'll get one or 2 scientists pretty quickly, be sure you bulb philo asap.with one of them (more important than academy since the slider'll be low for some time). You can backfill most of the techs you're missing now by trading philo. Try to take out the French completely, i don't know till which year you're game has progressed but there is a definite risk that French vassalize to Hannibal if Hannibal has Feudalism, which is disastrous since i guess Louis's still pressing your borders culturally.

 

[silverbullet]

@Shurdus:

Spoiler :

I just opened your save and you are in an excellent position:
1) You have captured the pyramids. Revolt to representation immediately. All your hapiness problems will be solved and your scientists will produce +3 beakers.
2) You have a lot of cash. Turn research to 100% and start losing money. You will get CoL in 2 turns that way (and 60 gold less).
3) Next time, don't promote your axemen to combat II. You need city raiders. What I usually do is wait with the promotion until I attack. If the city has archers only, I promote a few axemen to cover (+25% vs. archers), if they have a mix of archers and axes I promote them to city raider (+20% vs. cities).

4) As long as you have cash, run 100% science and try to get currency as well.
5) When you capture new cities, you will get more cash, keep running 100% science as long as possible.
6) You have enough army to capture Lyons once the paris garrison heals. Losing half of your units should not be that bad - you will get money from capturing the city and you will have less maintenance. After that I would sign peace and try to get some techs - especially alpha. Wait and rebuild a bit before attacking again.
7) Stop building army in Tenochtitlan. It's too far and you can start building infrastructure. Granary is important as well as lighthouse. This city is going to be your GP farm.
8) Trade fur for crab with Hannibal. At this stage you don't need crab, you need happiness resources.

Advice on recovering from war: (After Lyons has been captured)
Granaries and sacrificial altars are very important. You also need much more than 4 workers. More like 8.
You will need a lot of farms because most of your infrastructure production should come from whipping, growing the cities quickly is very important.

Most players in this game moved their capital to Paris. It greatly reduces maintenance costs.

Whip some sacrificial altars to reduce maintenance in all cities expect Paris (it should build a palace).
You need to grow a city to size 7 or 8 before you can whip a sacrificial altar, so do it as quickly as possible (remove specialists).
Whipping a granary should also help you get there faster, so whip it before that in the smaller cities).
Tlatelolco is growing really slowly. Turn citizen automation on there and watch it growing quickly working the sheep and farm tiles.

Switch to caste system (ideally after whipping essential infrastructure), and work as many specialists as possible in Tenochtitlan. Great scientists will help you bulb philosophy once you have alphabet.

What did you do with your first GS? did you bulb mathematics? It seems kind of a waste to me. You could either save him for a better bulb, or an academy in paris or settling him in a city (+9 beakers with pyramids).

 

[Shurdus]

@Shurdus:

Spoiler :

I just opened your save and you are in an excellent position:
1) You have captured the pyramids. Revolt to representation immediately. All your hapiness problems will be solved and your scientists will produce +3 beakers.
2) You have a lot of cash. Turn research to 100% and start losing money. You will get CoL in 2 turns that way (and 60 gold less).
3) Next time, don't promote your axemen to combat II. You need city raiders. What I usually do is wait with the promotion until I attack. If the city has archers only, I promote a few axemen to cover (+25% vs. archers), if they have a mix of archers and axes I promote them to city raider (+20% vs. cities).

4) As long as you have cash, run 100% science and try to get currency as well.
5) When you capture new cities, you will get more cash, keep running 100% science as long as possible.
6) You have enough army to capture Lyons once the paris garrison heals. Losing half of your units should not be that bad - you will get money from capturing the city and you will have less maintenance. After that I would sign peace and try to get some techs - especially alpha. Wait and rebuild a bit before attacking again.
7) Stop building army in Tenochtitlan. It's too far and you can start building infrastructure. Granary is important as well as lighthouse. This city is going to be your GP farm.
8) Trade fur for crab with Hannibal. At this stage you don't need crab, you need happiness resources.

Advice on recovering from war: (After Lyons has been captured)
Granaries and sacrificial altars are very important. You also need much more than 4 workers. More like 8.
You will need a lot of farms because most of your infrastructure production should come from whipping, growing the cities quickly is very important.

Most players in this game moved their capital to Paris. It greatly reduces maintenance costs.

Whip some sacrificial altars to reduce maintenance in all cities expect Paris (it should build a palace).
You need to grow a city to size 7 or 8 before you can whip a sacrificial altar, so do it as quickly as possible (remove specialists).
Whipping a granary should also help you get there faster, so whip it before that in the smaller cities).
Tlatelolco is growing really slowly. Turn citizen automation on there and watch it growing quickly working the sheep and farm tiles.

Switch to caste system (ideally after whipping essential infrastructure), and work as many specialists as possible in Tenochtitlan. Great scientists will help you bulb philosophy once you have alphabet.

What did you do with your first GS? did you bulb mathematics? It seems kind of a waste to me. You could either save him for a better bulb, or an academy in paris or settling him in a city (+9 beakers with pyramids).

@Dirk1302

thnx man that is much appreciated.

@Silverbullet.

Thank you for the feedback. The level of detail is really helping me see the logic as to why one should do things this way or that. I am sure it will help my game in the future a lot.

I have played some more, with both this new feedback and before that a bit as well.

Spoiler :

This first time went really well, until Louis did sign a vassal deal with Hannibal, then the culture killed my best cities and everything went downhill from there

I will let you know how the game went with this feedback, I am sure it will help a lot and things wil take a turn for the good, until I mess up again that is.

I am sorry to keep you guys busy so much with poor me, I am a pretty poor player but I am willing to improve. Thanks for your patience guys! Karma all around.

 

[silverbullet]

@Silverbullet.

Thank you for the feedback. The level of detail is really helping me see the logic as to why one should do things this way or that. I am sure it will help my game in the future a lot.

I have played some more, with both this new feedback and before that a bit as well.

Spoiler :

This first time went really well, until Louis did sign a vassal deal with Hannibal, then the culture killed my best cities and everything went downhill from there

Spoiler :

That hurts. It is very important when doing early rush to finish it before anyone gets feudalism. If this is your first immortal game I would suggest you reload and rush more effectively this time (City raider axes should be much more effective - less lossed, less time to heal, march forward more quickly). I don't think you need more than 10~12 axes and 2 spearmen to declare war. The rest will come as reinforcements during the war.
I think the game may still be winnable at this point, but very difficult and I don't know if I could pull it off from this position, I am sure better players could. Han has more land and a huge tech lead. If you had eliminated the french you could catch up, but as it is it is going to be very very difficult.

One important thing which I forgot to do in my game - scout with a workboat past the germans. Meeting all the AIs is very important for tech trading opportunities. On this game you can run a lot of scientists with caste system in Tenochtitlan, and being spiritual means that you can switch back and forth between slavery/org. religion and caste system/pacifism and get lots of great people. The more AIs you know, the more trades you can do to keep up in tech.

I am sorry to keep you guys busy so much with poor me, I am a pretty poor player but I am willing to improve. Thanks for your patience guys! Karma all around.

Don't be sorry, that is the purpose of this thread.
Some advice - if you want more people to give you advice, post more details (and some screenshots). Many people don't have the time to open your save and look at it, so screenshots of your empire, city screens and tech status help.