The UU-A-Day Countdown

[Louis XXIV]

The thing is that, in the past, defensive UUs have been very useful. The problem with the Minuteman for me is that it's a fairly late defensive UU. If we were talking about a Spearman with combat bonuses in territory, it could be useful for letting you focus on building and expanding without having to build too many units. Once you've reached this period, you usually have a good sense of how many units you'll need to build to protect against neighbors and whether you need to supplement your current troops. It seems the best it could offer is to allow you to disband other units and scale back on military costs (or maybe launch them all in a final war while your new units protect your home).

 

[Babri]

I was comparing Minutemen with Musketeers. If Napoleon attacks you with Musketeers, will your Minutemen be able to hold out ? Is the bonus is going to be enough to beat 20 strength Musketeer with a 16 strength Minuteman in friendly territory ?

 

[Avatan]

I was comparing Minutemen with Musketeers. If Napoleon attacks you with Musketeers, will your Minutemen be able to hold out ? Is the bonus is going to be enough to beat 20 strength Musketeer with a 16 strength Minuteman in friendly territory ?

The least they can do is a -25% malus , else this units would be kind of lame, and since it comes late and the american UA is not breathtaking, it is probable

 

[Snoopaloop]

Any chance we can either:
A) get likes in the OP to the initial post for each UU
B) get a mod to split each UU into its own thread

?

Either of these suggestions would help the readability of this thread a lot. I have been waiting for days for the 2nd UU discussion to start, and didn't realize it was on the same thread. (I'm all caught up now).

I think you mean "links" instead of "likes". This is CFC not Facebook

Sciguy, Polobo is referring to links like this in the first post of the features thread.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=372188

I don't see where you're going with the facebook comparison. CFC is obviously a much better site.

 

[Louis XXIV]

He was making fun of the typo, that's all. The post said "likes" instead of "links".

 

[Babri]

I don't see where you're going with the facebook comparison. CFC is obviously a much better site.

I totally agree with you.

 

[SuperSmash5]

I can see the reason they wouldn't count the bonus in such a way, but it certainly makes more sense from a realistic standpoint to count "friendly territory" as territory in which your culture dominates, not based on whose controlling the tile. If the idea of the Minuteman is that he's supposed to be protecting his home turf, then he should certainly get a bonus if it involves retaking a captured city.

 

[12agnar0k]

Nope, home is what you own, if an enemy captured your land you no longer own it or have it in your posession, therefore a "friendly territory" bonus won't work.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Nope, home is what you own, if an enemy captured your land you no longer own it or have it in your posession, therefore a "friendly territory" bonus won't work.

That is questionable, since you can control a city (and therefore its tiles) without 'owning' it (ie it always counts as a conquered city.)

 

[Lyoncet]

Nope, home is what you own, if an enemy captured your land you no longer own it or have it in your posession, therefore a "friendly territory" bonus won't work.

Source please. I agree that it's likely that "friendly territory" means "hexes with your culture," but what about cities that you just occupied? Is there a difference between liberated cities and conquored cities? Puppet states? I don't think we've seen anything that gives you any grounds to make such broad statements as unquestionable facts.

 

[Stefanskantine]

I'll reserve judgment on the minuteman, and trust in the devs and their wisdom to balance the game until I get the chance to play it for myself. Although if I were designing the game I would have gone with something like -50% hammer cost for the minuteman. This is in keeping with its defensive character (allowing you to rush build if you're caught in a surprise war) and fits with its historical namesake- they were able to be "ready in a minute."

As it stands now there are some definite possible uses as others have pointed out, but certainly not one of the UUs that really screams "awesome" just from looking at the stats. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Babri]

I'll reserve judgment on the minuteman, and trust in the devs and their wisdom to balance the game until I get the chance to play it for myself. Although if I were designing the game I would have gone with something like -50% hammer cost for the minuteman. This is in keeping with its defensive character (allowing you to rush build if you're caught in a surprise war) and fits with its historical namesake- they were able to be "ready in a minute."

As it stands now there are some definite possible uses as others have pointed out, but certainly not one of the UUs that really screams "awesome" just from looking at the stats. We'll have to wait and see.

They should loose health in foreign territory then so you don't spam them to attack your enemies.

 

[12agnar0k]

I don't need to prove that a city when conquered is "friendly territory" thats obvious, if you wish to be concerned about the matter then thats your concern.

Kirkk, that won't be the case, plus "conquered cities" or "annexing" won't last forever, building a courthouse will remove the unhappiness penalty, also this annexed citizens anger at you has absolutely nothing to do with ownership and friendly territory, if you conquer a city then you own it, you are not borrowing it off someone else. Therefore all your cities are friendly territory, also allie territory will be firendly too.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I don't need to prove that a city when conquered is "friendly territory" thats obvious, if you wish to be concerned about the matter then thats your concern.

Kirkk, that won't be the case, plus "conquered cities" or "annexing" won't last forever, building a courthouse will remove the unhappiness penalty, also this annexed citizens anger at you has absolutely nothing to do with ownership and friendly territory, if you conquer a city then you own it, you are not borrowing it off someone else. Therefore all your cities are friendly territory, also allie territory will be firendly too.

Conquered cities lasts Forever... a courthouse just reduces the penalty, it doesn't make a conquered city 'unconquered'

And the territory belongs to the city.

I personally would like it if "Conquered Cities" and their territory counted the same as as their civ did for you.. ie no healing if you were at war, etc.

 

[Babri]

What is the next UU to be discussed ?

 

[City Raider]

I actually think the Minuteman could be a great tool. Maybe not the best UU, but can certainly be used for conquering b/c once you capture a city your Minutemen now get a defensive bonus in defending your new city and surrounding land. Even if your enemy is sending an army to cut you off, once you flip that city all of a sudden your minutemen get the defensive bonus before they can attack.

I think the Americans are going to excel at expanding and then holding any land they do claim/conquer.

And they might be a good civ for the AI, due to the defensive capabilities. Might be a good rival to rush and try and get rid of early before gunpowder.

 

[Calouste]

The problem is that they can be leveraged the most while you are losing the war. This means that they might stop you from losing a city, or make you lose a lot fewer cities, but will be very little help in making you gain cities. Thus, they are hard to leverage as they being in a position to do so generally requires you to be losing a defensive war. For the AI this is a great UU as it might dissuade the player from attacking them for an age or two, but for the human it hard to actively benefit from it by persuing a particularly strategy.

Thus, I rank it as one of the worst UUs.

Fighting a defensive war doesn't mean you are losing. It can be very profitable, even in Civ4, to entice an easily provoked AI to send a stack into your territory and then annihilate it using your local movement advantages.

 

[Ahriman]

Will the tiles that come with a conquered city constitute "Freindly Territory"

Of course.

I can't even begin to understand how people would think otherwise.

Even if a city is a conquered city, its tiles that you own/control/can work are still clearly friendly territory (as opposed to neutral territory or enemy territory).

Why would anyone make it more complex than this?

 

[12agnar0k]

Yeah I tried to explain that to Krikk but he seems oblivious.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Of course.

I can't even begin to understand how people would think otherwise.

Even if a city is a conquered city, its tiles that you own/control/can work are still clearly friendly territory (as opposed to neutral territory or enemy territory).

Why would anyone make it more complex than this?

Because there is a conquered city status and it would be a way to work in reistance.

If say the territory of a conquered city had the effect of neutral territory (instead of friendly to the conqueror and enemy to the original owner) Then that would
1. make sense from a realism standpoint
2. work to resist the 'snowball' from a gameplay standpoint.

Of course it is possible that something like that will happen while the city is in civil disorder.


I think that you are Probably right in that all tiles you can work are Friendly territory.
But, I'm not sure.