The Vault Dev. Canteen (General Discussion)

There is a 2249 or something map that comes with the mod. It has all the civs start around where they should.

I had made a scenario from I think The Calin's map of the Western US that set all the civs around where they were supposed to be. But it didn't make it into the release of the mod :( It was bundled with some re textures for the resources as well. I'm not sure if it will work with the current version but here it is:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13516297#post13516297
 
Hi Ivan, Glad you are enjoying it!

So lets go through your points:

US Map: There is a plan to make a proper scenario map, there was one, but it was found to be badly balanced and didn't work too well, and it was built on the old version, so is probably hideuosly broken!

There should also be a 'blank' american map called ozzy's america. You should be able to make scenarios yourself from that if the mood takes you. that is the one I plan to use oneday (I think).

Era: I will eventually change the eras to Pre-Fallout(Ancient) Fallout 1(Classical) F2/Tactics, F3/NV or something along those lines. It's purely cosmetic so not a high priority.

Settings: Yep Noble difficulty is the one you want as it is the only one I have really set up the game for. Try a bigger map size, this will give more vaults (For the 3 vault civs to expand) as well as generally more space to expand. Also use Pangea map, this will generate one large land mass (like the US) and should hopefully make the most of your map size.

Watermill: Total Oversight on my part... To be honest I have not put much effort into the later parts of the game yet, everytime i play I see things I need to fix/change/add/improve, so I rarely get that far, or I am just busy working with new mechanics that we are introducing. I don't know what watermill stats are at the moment, but my guess is compared to other improvements they might be quite rubbish!

City Spreading: No they should definately be expanding, I have seen them all do it, even the Vault civs with their special rules. It might be a map size issue. I may need to reenable the ability for Settlers to cross enemy borders, that might have got switched off in the remake, so they might be boxed in too much.

'City Capture': Eventually I will come up with a better name, for these guys. the concept is this, until you research Conquest, you cannot capture enemy cities, this is to represent the idea of needing the logistics, manpower, and administrative ability to subjugate a whole town of people against their will. You can genrally pillage and cause mayhem in a number of ways before this point, you jsut can't annihilate an entire Faction in the first half of the game!

Mutants: Yeah I noticed this fact as well in a BoS test game I played. Did you find it was only the mutant machine gunner that appeared? Chances are I have just missed him out of the faction exclusions, or perhaps it got lost in the remake. It's essentially a typo. I do plan to introduce the ability to acquire Mutants and such as Humans, through various means. (Think Marcus from F2)
In fact you can already in the not quite finished story event prototype. But this particular glitch is a mistake that I will eventually put right in a patch!

I hope you continue to enjoy the mod, and look forward to hearing more of your thoughts and feedback on all the aspects of the game. I find it really helpful and motivating.

My best piece of advice for improving your gameplay would be use a large pangea map.
 
Oh sorry about that clanky, it was not an intentional snub!

I do remember you doing that now, with the resource graphics, there are lots of bits and pieces that may or may not have made it into the rebuild, simply because there is so much changing it is hard to keep track of it all.

It also maybe that the scenario will freak out, as so many 'rules' have changed from the way they were.

Let me know if they function ok.

I think at some point I need to make a thread for Scenarios that people make, so they can share them and such, then when we get some that get good player feedback and are well balanced, etc. we can bundle them up or add them to the main mod.

I do want to eventually make a proper full blown US Map Scenario, with all of the major fallout locations and objects. Right now I am still just focussed on building the core mechanics of the game.
 
I think one thing we might need is some kind of basic 'hunter' unit, that requires no resources, has a low combat strength, but is very effective against animals. I think one of the reasons some factions might not be expanding is their lack of strong units to deal with monsters so they can get out and found new cities.

In my game the BoS have got themselves 3 cities, same as me, but everyone else has 1.

It is only the classical era though.

Some factions may not even have the technology yet.

I may need to look into further decreasing the price of ancient era techs, or implement some more early science buildings, perhaps that obselete in the classical era.
 
The wanderer is the unit which I used when expanding, as this 'hunter'. Though it comes a bit late. Maybe you could put it a tech or two earlier.

As for the city conquest, you could do it this way (jus a suggestion). Leave out the special ''conquer city'' units and special Conquest rules.

And then, for the real Fallout scenario, when you have the time - simply take a big Western US map and let the game start with a capitol for each civ. In that capitol put 2,3 immobile 'Town Defence' or ''HQ'' Units with good stats. (not too high states and not producable by player).

In that way there will be no early rushes for the Capitol cities, the game will last longer and you setup a good ''historical'' position for the game (they shouldn't be close).

For the other maps simply leave out the Capture City Units and let the game play without them.

Also another thing I've noticed: there are no naval units. I think you can simply take some ironclad unit from vanilla civ4, rename it to post war destroyer and it's done. Same thing with transport and a work boat. You don't need any new techs, put them in some existing mid game techs.

Also, please make one visible and clear place with the download link of the latest version (and with the date clearly stated).

I feel like half of these mods here are updated but aren't properly ''advertised'', so newcomers could be confused. I am never sure did I get the latest version (I speak in general for the whole civfanatics forum).

For example, I am not sure is the latest version of this mod here on the first post.
 
Wanderer: Yeah this unit is meant more for exploring, so it will get more explorer perks, for the nuter I am thinking like strength 2 but 1000% against animals, so strength 20, which will allow it to take on any animal, but get trounced in a man on man fight.

Conquest:
To be honest that idea doesn't really fit with what I want it to be, or with fallout, as most early settlements, didn't or wouldn't have mega defences.
For me this would be far more immersion breaking than my system.
My system has a sense of common sensse logic to it.
Like I said it takes a lot to be able to actively subjugate a population against their will.
Also with the intentional closer starts, you need a way to not have everyone wiped out by the one group that has munitions next to their capital (or Vault Factions).

Navy:
The only real 'naval' unit in the fallout games was the tanker that sends you to the oil rig, Rivet City Carrier was long since immobilised.

Also, the game is designed to be palyed on a representation of the US, so naval ships would pretty much be a waste of time and resources as they can only sail up and down one coast line.
That is why I say use pangaea rather than a 'world' map as you won't be able to go anywhere.

Date for Download:
Yes, I usually date the Downloads. You will see when you follow the link, that it has the version name, and a date next to it, and the previous versions.
Also my sig. which is in all my posts including the DL thread has the Version name and date it was released.

This is the main Mod Forum for FTTW, so will always carry the latest news and links.
 
Lib.Spi't said:
Wanderer: Yeah this unit is meant more for exploring, so it will get more explorer perks, for the nuter I am thinking like strength 2 but 1000% against animals, so strength 20, which will allow it to take on any animal, but get trounced in a man on man fight.
Click to expand...
I think the dangers of wastelands are quite good represented with the animals right now. And wanderer has a bonus versus them, I think you could simply put it in an earlier tech and it's good. Any further buffs will make it too easy to expand in the wasteland.
Conquest:
To be honest that idea doesn't really fit with what I want it to be, or with fallout, as most early settlements, didn't or wouldn't have mega defences.
For me this would be far more immersion breaking than my system.
My system has a sense of common sensse logic to it.
Like I said it takes a lot to be able to actively subjugate a population against their will.


Also with the intentional closer starts, you need a way to not have everyone wiped out by the one group that has munitions next to their capital (or Vault Factions).
Click to expand...

I think If you have an immobile, free maintenance 'HQ' unit with a strength of lets say 16 or 20 in each capital - you get a good protection from early rushes.

The idea of an immobile capitol defense unite isn't mine, it is actually something already implemented in a quite good Fallout mod for Darkest Hour (a Paradox strategy game). It is the simplest way to keep the main civs alive, but still allowing conquest an dynamic change of ownership of other smaller cities and forts.

But it is your mod so, I don't think I will persuade you. :)

Navy:
The only real 'naval' unit in the fallout games was the tanker that sends you to the oil rig, Rivet City Carrier was long since immobilised.
Click to expand...

True, but the western seaboard is quite big. I think Enclave had something.
Anyway I don't think it would ruin the game,it would simply add another good aspect to it. And for the other maps it would be quite useful (but also not bad for western US).

And you make them all expansive, the transports being able to carry max 1 unit and no fear of massive d-days.
 
Everyone is now expanding in my game, so I don't think the hunter is of any real concern, I don't feel like anyone has fallen unreasonably far behind me at this point.

So I think it is a false alarm.

Dynamic changing of ownership didn't really occur until after F2 (at least militarily) the NCR were alble to culturally unite a lot of places (which can happen at the moment so long as it is not a capital) but military expansion didn't happen very often until after tandi's death and the rise of the Legion. (Which is about the spot of Conquest tech on the mod time line).

Most 'Conflicts' were more batter and harass than wholesale conquest in the earlier fallout eras, which is what we are working towards with the operative system.

As far as I am aware, the Enclave used veribirds, not boats to travel from poseidon to the main land.

By the time you would have boats, the goal of the mod would be to expand eastward (as with the fallout games) so spending money on boats would not help to achieve this goal.

Right now we don't have a proper map script for the mod, I just use pangaea, but eventually the mod map will generate a single land mass the 'size' of the US, with no north/south coastal waters.

Also most boats that could be built would probably be eaten by some kind of terrifying radioactive sea creature, if a scorpion grew to the size of a radscorp, what would happen to a shark, or blue whale, or giant squid.... *shudder*
 
I have officially entered hyperdrive over the competition, I am almost double points of the BoS..

I wonder if I need to add some assists to the computer in the handicap settings.

in turn 380, I make over 1000 gold per turn! That is using wealth though, I think I need to get round to introducing the 'wealth-lite' process for the earlier game, so it doesn't convert 100% hammers this early.

Things are taking a while to setup, but it is not feeling like much of a struggle at this early stage..
 
Any chance for a simplification of civics?

Every civic, every single one, has multiple negative attributes to it. I think we should return the civics to the "opportunity cost" system they had in vanilla. Where the main disadvantage of a civic was that there was another option. Not that the civic itself tacks on +5 Gold maintenance for all units, +25% war wariness, and -10% unit production.
 
I will be working on civics eventually, but I like the system, some of it I was just experimenting with, but overall I like the +/- effects of civics.

What I would love to get eventually is an extra screen that does a 'net effect' display, that shows all of the civic effects you have chosen in a single entry, so all the +/- are combined into a final value etc.

I also eventually want to write out a bunch of descriptions that lay out the pros and cons of a civic choice. but many of them are somewhat common sense. In a wealth society everyone wants to get more money (so soldiers want a bigger pay check), a society built on strength doesn't care if it is at war (because it can test that strength), and a professional military takes longer to train because you are training them properly.
 
Hehe, now I am about to have a lot of fun raider hunting with my covert sniper!

"Oi Steve! What happened to Fred's head!"

Well that's interesting, I cannot range shoot workers or people inside cities with my covert sniper. I don't think this limitation applies in war time, but I shall have to find out. Intrigueing.

It is really cool to see how factions actually defend there most important terrain improvements and features, now they just need to assign security to these sites as well.
 
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