The war with the Spanish

[Ballazic]

I know there has been alot of talk about war with the spanish in not so near or far distance future. I realized though that before I really championed this cause, i didn't talk to our nations great minds and see whaist you guys think. I haven't heard and dissonance, but what do you guys think. Is it to premature? Is it a good idea? Bad idea?

This is your place to share.

 

[blastoidstalker]

Here is my ideas of war with the Spanish. As follower of the Word these decisions fall partialy in my arena though it is important enough for all to discuss and execution of the war is up to the warlords.

• I am running on the assumption that the copper we see is the only copper they have easy access to. I wish we had the scout over there to swing around to Hatty's west to check.
  
• Note that Hatty and Lincoln are pleased an 0 modifies. We will incur a -1 penealty to lincoln each time we declare war.
  
• I am assuming we will research archery next and produce some horse archers.
  
• First thing to do is open boarder with both civs when we can. We want to get some + bonus with lincoln ASAP.

Executing the war

• We should move a couple of horse archers to spanish boarder. We should have then make a quick dive into Spansih lands under open boarders to recon. Note any Copper or iron if we know of it.
• Bring archers just out of boarders in positions to worker steal.
• Declare war at a time when we can steal 1 or 2 workers. The more the better.
• First escourt worker back to our land then return to pillage. Metals and horse first then food then anything else.
  
• If Hatty never got use of copper she should have no spears. If she does, travel in pairs and kill it when it takes one of our horse archer out.
  
• If she has a second city, it may be weakly defended and we take it out.
  
  
• At this point we can choose either to make peace or do a long drawn out war.
  
• If we stay at war, use 2-3 horse archers to keep hatty from doing anything. Once we get cats or spies. Take out her culture and take her cities.

We could also declare peace, move our units out of her boarders and watch her as we tech to cats or spies. Then we declare war, take more workers and wipe her out.

 

[Provolution]

I think we need IW asap (After Myst), or our war will be conducted blindfolded.

I am not a stupid player, even though some players prefer to see me that way, however, if you allow yourself to ignore their creed and ways for a little bit, you will see that iron working makes perfect sense after mysticism.

 

[DaveShack]

Most of the argument against CoL is based on not needing Confucianism, because we will be acquiring religion from Spain.

Please clarify this issue. Will we be expecting to take Spain's religious city? How long will we need to wait by following this path?

 

[DaveShack]

I am not a stupid player, even though some players prefer to see me that way

Some people would call this trolling. Nobody said, or even implied, anything close that I'm aware of.

 

[Provolution]

Trolling? What has forum rules to do with this?

I am merely stating that my ideas are as valid as anyones, in spite of the derogative remarks my ideas has gotten.

 

[DaveShack]

Claiming that someone has made "derogative" remarks when in fact they have not.

 

[Provolution]

Ok, forget the very idea then, all is perfect.

 

[blastoidstalker]

Getting back to the point and Dave shacks question.

How quick the war can go depends on factors we do not know, like Spains forces and wether She has two cities or one, whether she turtles or not. If she does not turtle I think it will be fairly quick and we will not need cats. But if she does we have to accept that we need cataupults or spies.

I agree with Provo that IW needs to be researched for war, though i still say Archery first.

 

[Provolution]

Yeah, I asked for Archery, Myst and then IW.

 

[DaveShack]

So we can't count on taking the religion city?

Getting back to RP, I would think there is a faction that should get pretty upset if we go another 2000 game years with no religion and no plan to get one.

 

[Provolution]

The plan is simple, Open Borders to Spain, scout them, let Hinduism come to us, and at the same time prepare for war. Also, Meditation and Aesthetics, to build Shewdagon Paya, gold doubles speed, choose religion civic at will (it is a wonder). I proposed it, but again, everyone seems to ignore my proposal.

So am I really wrong about being ignored or belittled, or what?

 

[DaveShack]

That's an interesting plan. Doesn't match what the rest of the thread says, but worth consideration.

Will Hinduism come to us? I don't know, but have doubts. My thoughts on this is that AIs seem to me to be notoriously inefficient and unreliable religion spreaders, at least until they build their shrine.

Is choosing a religion civic important? Is it good enough to put hammers into it that could be spent on military, or maybe Mausoleum of Mausallos (1.5 times GA length) or Colossus? I don't use anything other than OR and occasionally FR when the UN vote makes me. Others opinions may vary.

 

[Ballazic]

The thing is researching CoL will take along time and we are not assured of even getting Confusicisism, hinduism well much better established in our lands. It makes sense taking advantage of our production etc and going for them. I think an invasion is more concrete then a tech battle agianst the whole world for CoL. We are already behind in preq techs for CoL. Its not likely we will get it first.

 

[joncnunn]

Personally, I think if we're going to make the effort to declare war on anyone we need to be assured of getting something worth while.

In my mind, the only thing the Spanish have that would justify it is the Holy City. Now there just so happens in BTS to be a quest you can get if your at war with whoever has the Holy City in your state relgion.

So ASAP open the borders with Spain so she can spread her religion to us before the war starts.

 

[Provolution]

Yeah, we want a foreign affairs round to "Open Borders" with Spain, please bring this to Legion. We want to scout their interior too, before we go in, as well as getting Hinduism.

 

[Lord Civius]

I agree. Though I would add bring a worker (as soon as we can spare one) and connect our city with her capital (Holy City). Barring we are not connected via trade routes. In my experience it is the quickest way to spread the religion to us. A road will also help the war effort.

After scouting her lands we will have a better idea of what defensive units she has. If she has copper we will need IW. The war effort to build all of those axes will shut down production in Arete. If she has copper I would suggest waitng until we have IW and Construction. This will also give us time to gain a State religion peacefully and build political ties with Lincoln.

 

[Seymoo]

If she has copper I would suggest destroying it before she builds anything with it. Unless she has had the foresight, to build spears with it, then our horse archers will still have mastery of the surrounding land

 

[Provolution]

I would still like to have IW, to actually do something.

 

[dutchfire]

War with the Spanish?

Why?