The war with the Spanish

[Lord Civius]

I believe the whole talk of war with the spanish was a simple statement made about placement of cities. That we could take one of Hatties if she settled here or there. The Triad Leaders have not to my knowledge declared an imminent war with the Spanish. So please stop reading into this for more than it is. Some Citizens favor an early war with the Spanish and others do not. I personally don't like early wars unless an opportunity presents itself. Our opportunity here is early Horse Archers. If after scouting we learn she is weak (without spearmen and a weak garrison) we should invade her as it will give us many benefits. If she is strong defensively then IMHO we shouldnot invade for a few gold and a worker. The benefits of open borders with her far outweigh a worker.

 

[dutchfire]

War with the Spanish?

Why?

Anyone care to answer my question?

 

[Provolution]

Mostly to control our side of the continent, since they are awfully close. You cannot ask for a more "rational" and "logical" explanation than that.

 

[Lord Civius]

Anyone care to answer my question?

To take the road that benefits us the most. If that road is war then so be it.

 

[dutchfire]

Mostly to control our side of the continent, since they are awfully close. You cannot ask for a more "rational" and "logical" explanation than that.

You've almost got me convinced there...

To take the road that benefits us the most. If that road is war then so be it.

"Why should we do it?" "Because it's the best."

Thanks a lot for totally failing to address my question.

 

[Provolution]

More so, we got Horseman Archers as a great military lead, if we build up a core army of these after barracks and stables, I am convinced that with a couple more additions from other unit types, we can conquer Spain. Their culture is also a pain, as our borders are continuously under cultural attack.

 

[dutchfire]

More so, we got Horseman Archers as a great military lead, if we build up a core army of these after barracks and stables, I am convinced that with a couple more additions from other unit types, we can conquer Spain. Their culture is also a pain, as our borders are continuously under cultural attack.

Last time I checked, their borders were at least 4 tiles away from ours, and we had a grand total of 1 cities.

What about, you know, developping our own country first, before we start losing a war?

 

[Provolution]

We plan to develop 3-4 cities first yes, but the war must be done somewhat quick.

We expect Spain to do the same, but Horseback Archer is something we have now.

Do not assume we are more stupid than you think, Dutchfire, I know where you are coming from, but we are not that dumb.

 

[Seymoo]

everyone is seems obsessed with barracks and stables before building horse archers, but the horse archers are currently good enough without upgrading, an unupgraded horsearcher would probably defeat on an unupgraded archer in a city, such is its superiority at this stage. It will be absolutely unbeatable while it is outside the city and worker stealing and pillaging at the very least.

 

[Diamondeye]

A horsearcher against a spear attacking is around 20%, not absolutely unbeatable. But I agree with Seymoo, speed is of the utmost importance. We should be able to workersteal and then wreck copper out of their hands. After that they wont be able to kill horsearchers, even with 2 archers.

 

[blastoidstalker]

Anyone care to answer my question?

This is what I attempted to do in post 40, it is on the previous page. If it is not to your specifications then please be more specific.

here it is again quoted directly from post #40


The gain for this war
1 or 2 workers
A few gold from Pilaging
a drastic reduction in Spains power and ability to develope. Our gain in worker(s) is there loss. Particulaily if we can put them down to zero workers. They then fall behind and become an easier oppenent to handle later. What we add to us we subtract from them. This idea of a worker steal war was in the triad platform.

I see this as enough benifit for little effort on our part


Again this is my opinion but I see it as answering your question and several others of the same kin. If not you need to explain why it does not. There are early places in early threads where reasons to be agressive towards spain has been suggested and discussed. See the early intelegence threads on spain and babylon.


Other citizens like Lord Civius have disagreed with these ideas or reasons but they have stated why. This is usefull and makes for a good discussion and help effect the direction things will go. You seem to be claiming that nobody has explained why war when it has been explained several times. So take the places where it was explained and state counter arguments.

I want to keep this thread a discussion on how to play the game and not a shouting match or a place for catty comments. So for ALL the people who are doing this, and it is on both sides of the fence, keep to the point so we can stay on task.

 

[blastoidstalker]

A horsearcher against a spear attacking is around 20%, not absolutely unbeatable. But I agree with Seymoo, speed is of the utmost importance. We should be able to workersteal and then wreck copper out of their hands. After that they wont be able to kill horsearchers, even with 2 archers.

that is why we need to scout first to see where copper is in spains lands if it is there and know if she has spearmen. In my experience I have not seen an AI put more than one spear in a city this early in the game. Has anyone seen differently?

 

[blastoidstalker]

everyone is seems obsessed with barracks and stables before building horse archers, but the horse archers are currently good enough without upgrading, an unupgraded horsearcher would probably defeat on an unupgraded archer in a city, such is its superiority at this stage. It will be absolutely unbeatable while it is outside the city and worker stealing and pillaging at the very least.

I agree that barracks and stables are not going to be built before the first couple of horse archers. The warlords city may build threm fairly soon after its founding but that is there decision.

What about, you know, developping our own country first, before we start losing a war?

reference back to post 40


1) we need to make sure our city 2 is safe and secure, this takes precidence over any military action put forward. It is no use to lose it to spain or the barbs. So if problems come up up there we need to address them. I hope nobody disagrrees with this

 

[Provolution]

I now support Blastoid's plan for building Horseman Archers right away after Monument, 2 of them, before we begin to build other city buildings. We need to apply force now that its fresh.

 

[Provolution]

This is what I attempted to do in post 40, it is on the previous page. If it is not to your specifications then please be more specific.

here it is again quoted directly from post #40


The gain for this war
1 or 2 workers
A few gold from Pilaging
a drastic reduction in Spains power and ability to develope. Our gain in worker(s) is there loss. Particulaily if we can put them down to zero workers. They then fall behind and become an easier oppenent to handle later. What we add to us we subtract from them. This idea of a worker steal war was in the triad platform.

I see this as enough benifit for little effort on our part


Again this is my opinion but I see it as answering your question and several others of the same kin. If not you need to explain why it does not. There are early places in early threads where reasons to be agressive towards spain has been suggested and discussed. See the early intelegence threads on spain and babylon.


Other citizens like Lord Civius have disagreed with these ideas or reasons but they have stated why. This is usefull and makes for a good discussion and help effect the direction things will go. You seem to be claiming that nobody has explained why war when it has been explained several times. So take the places where it was explained and state counter arguments.

I want to keep this thread a discussion on how to play the game and not a shouting match or a place for catty comments. So for ALL the people who are doing this, and it is on both sides of the fence, keep to the point so we can stay on task.

I have stated my points on the matter. I think one Horseman Archer should suffice until we have gotten barracks and stables up. The first HAs mission would be to sabotage copper alone, until the main force of the upgraded HA invades.

You are right about the catty comments too. A couple of players in the opposition like to snipe a bit verbally to make people look dumb as well as come with their gameplay views right afterwards. Nothing of roleplay, storytelling or anything. I had to turn up the word "cattiness" on an online encyclopedia, and now I know what it means, and its an accurate description.

Maybe this group of Gentlemen could form "the Catty Faction" in order to sharpen and clarify their profile a bit.

 

[blastoidstalker]

provo though I think most of your posts are very good. In my opinonYou as well at times fall into the "catiness trap"

 

[Provolution]

I am sorry for the "cattiness" I may have inflicted at stages,but I have improved, but I think the cattiness is a product of the habitat those remarks are made in. Some people have certain privileges...

The issue counts for where cattiness is the main communication, not some occasional deviation.

Moderator Action: Warned for trolling, this post and the previous one.

 

[DaveShack]

The argument against CoL was that we don't need to found confucianism because we'll get religion from Spain. I still don't see that inaccuracy (it was pitched as capturing the Hindu holy city) being rectified. At least it has come out that this isn't really the goal.

Taking a worker or maybe a settler coming our way doesn't sound too bad, as long as it doesn't affect our own development. But I'd say don't wait for stables, just build unpromoted horsemen once the producing city doesn't have anything better to do. And clearly do that scouting, even if it means recalling the scout unit.

 

[Seymoo]

I have to agree with daveshack here, for the moment it is how early we can get our HA's into the war that matters, not how promoted they are.

 

[NZL]

Your comments have been taken in consideration, and the Warlords Faction will act accordingly