The worlds two largest EVER empires not in game??

[Jimbo30]

The day that your people grow the balls necessary to declare their independence and break off from England's rule is the day that you can have your own separate civ in a video game.

We aren't ruled by England and never have been. As mentioned previously, Scotland won the war of independence against England - a long long time before the US was even conceived.

There are so many things that you clearly don't understand about this situation, feel free to shut up about all of it until you do.

 

[kettyo]

Hmm to be fair, while playing the demo I just found Edinburgh as a city state. I'm not sure how it works, maybe that means England isn't in my game or something?

I don't have the game (yet) so just took others comments into consideration.

 

[YoHo]

Is every single British Civ Player going to make this thread?

It sure feels like it.

 

[_random_]

I think your nationalism is fatalling affecting your rationalism

Are you quoting somebody's response to a post of yours?
Anyhow, Mongolia is a loss, but I'm not really upset about Britain. It's a bit like complaining the absence of the Soviet Union. Sure, it was a distinct and very powerful entity, and only having Russia doesn't encompass Ukraine, Poland, Belarus, etc, but the culture is still represented for the most part.

 

[bernlin2000]

America was the dominant force of the entire 20th century, a time that was marked by rapid advances in nearly all fields that is unprecedented in human history: just because it's "new" doesn't mean it should be ignored. British Empire vs. English Empire: aren't they both based in England? I know Britain includes Wales, Scotland, Ireland, but it was England that was the major force in imperial expansion. I agree they should have included the mongols, but this goes back to the usually "why didn't they included xyz?" arguments, and the answer is always that they decided to include some new civilizations that have not gotten attention in previous games that the developers felt deserved some.

 

[kettyo]

America was the dominant force of the entire 20th century, a time that was marked by rapid advances in nearly all fields that is unprecedented in human history: just because it's "new" doesn't mean it should be ignored. British Empire vs. English Empire: aren't they both based in England? I know Britain includes Wales, Scotland, Ireland, but it was England that was the major force in imperial expansion. I agree they should have included the mongols, but this goes back to the usually "why didn't they included xyz?" arguments, and the answer is always that they decided to include some new civilizations that have not gotten attention in previous games that the developers felt deserved some.

Incuding the Mongols as a civ should have been a HUGE insult to all other true civilizations.

 

[kettyo]

America is definitely an empire. From the initial breakaway colony they conquered vast amounts of native American lands and also stole a huge part of Mexico.

Russia could be considered an empire for the same reasons IMO. Anything east from the Urals are actually Russian colonies. Also they stole a huge part of Finnland.

 

[Smidgey]

America was the dominant force of the entire 20th century, a time that was marked by rapid advances in nearly all fields that is unprecedented in human history: just because it's "new" doesn't mean it should be ignored. British Empire vs. English Empire: aren't they both based in England? I know Britain includes Wales, Scotland, Ireland, but it was England that was the major force in imperial expansion. I agree they should have included the mongols, but this goes back to the usually "why didn't they included xyz?" arguments, and the answer is always that they decided to include some new civilizations that have not gotten attention in previous games that the developers felt deserved some.

Yet the game talks about Britain all over the manual, the Civilopedia and in terms of the English UUs and special ability. The only things entirely English about the civ in the game are the city list and the leader.

Even if England was the major force behind imperial expansion it still does not take away from the fact that the British empire would not exist, at least as we knew it, without the other constituent parts.

It is quite insulting really, when we consider that, taking Scotland as an example, that in Civ 4 they had Winston Churchill as a leader of England - a man who's constituency was Dundee in Scotland and at the same time ignoring a country which, excluding any civilian additions to the empire, must have lost more than a million people to the cause of Britain in it's 303 year history.

As for Russia and the Soviet Union, if the Ukranians object to Kiev being used as a city, then that is for them to make that case - I do not know whether they object or not. It is important, however, to remember that the Soviet Union was, for all intents and purposes, an empire created through conquest following WWII. The United Kingdom was created in 1707 with a constitutional arrangement of two equal partners (whether that is the case economically, etc is not what our constitution is based upon and is a different matter). Furthermore, legally the states of England and Scotland no longer existed after 1707.

 

[HisDivineShadow]

Also, like most scots I'm bi-lingual, that is I can speak or write both Scots and English. The fact that I choose to write in English is for the same reason everybody else does.

Most Scots speak Scots? Ummm... Most Scots live in the Central Belt, where most of us certainly do NOT speak Scots! But maybe if you're a teuchter?

 

[Jimbo30]

hahaha

I'm Scottish, so I know that's complete bollocks.

Most scots speak scots? You must surely have known when typing that, that any other scot is just going to laugh at it.

Or maybe you're a teuchter

Most Scots in my area do at least.

What you say is true however, most of us aren't bi-lingual - at least the vast majority of people I know cannot even pretend to speak English in a manner that anybody else would understand.

My Swedish girlfriend was visiting for 3 weeks in July, and she really hudnae a clue at aw. Ah swear tae goad she wis like "whit is he sayin??" noan stoap.

 

[Jimbo30]

Most Scots speak Scots? Ummm... Most Scots live in the Central Belt, where most of us certainly do NOT speak Scots! But maybe if you're a teuchter?

PS, there are about 2 million scots in the central belt, and 5 million scots overall so that puts your "most scots live in the Central Belt" argument to bed.

And I live south of the central belt, not north, thought at barely 30 miles away I'd hardly call myself a lowlander.

 

[Tarkhan]

Speaking of keeping the Scots happy - I know they were never an organized "empire" but I wouldnt mind seeing the Celts return as a playable civ.

 

[MercuryP]

The inclusion of England and not Britain does have a logical explanation other than "the game creators didn't know what they were doing." Namely, that their criteria for choosing Civs to put into the game was not "which were the 18 most powerful countries/empires/civilizations of history?" but rather "what mix of 18 civs will give us a good variety in region, personality, and time period?"

So, answering the second question, they chose England over the British Empire. Now that we've picked England, what units or buildings should be used? Well, England's greatest era was during the time of the British empire, so we'll focus on that. It's not so much deliberate neglect of history as the desire to include England's history throughout time rather than focus only on the British empire. Also, the unique units/buildings/abilities chosen are not the game designers' way of saying "Hey, this is the era we were focusing on when we chose to put this Civ in the game." They're more likely to be just whatever made the most logical sense from a gameplay perspective.

As for Mongols/Vikings/Spain/Mali/All the other European countries/Whoever else, they'll probably be coming, but the initial selection of 18 civs was based on variety rather than historical influence.

 

[Jimbo30]

I'm guessing Tarkhan that the first expansion will be like Civ 5's version of Warlords, adding Mongols, Zulu, Vikings and other aggressive nations. Aside from Monty there is a distinct lack of "oh " neighbours with Vanilla Civ 5 I guess. Time will tell.

 

[HisDivineShadow]

PS, there are about 2 million scots in the central belt, and 5 million scots overall so that puts your "most scots live in the Central Belt" argument to bed.

And I live south of the central belt, not north, thought at barely 30 miles away I'd hardly call myself a lowlander.

The only significant towns and cities outside the central belt are Aberdeen and Inverness!

And only 30% of Scots speak Scots (and here in Edinburgh, I don't actually know ANYONE that speaks it!).

 

[Chieron]

We aren't ruled by England and never have been. As mentioned previously, Scotland won the war of independence against England - a long long time before the US was even conceived.

There are so many things that you clearly don't understand about this situation, feel free to shut up about all of it until you do.

Somehow it's funny that Elizabeth's greatest conquest for England still is not accepted in full. Scotland was won by simply having no heir and having the Scottish king reside in London, making him an English one essentially. By the way, why should the nationality of royality matter all that much? - the rulers of England were of French(Plantagenet), Welsh(Tudor), Scottish(effectively French again), Dutch(Orange) and afterwards German noble houses..

England was the dominant part of Great Britain at all times, as was Russia for all states it was part of (making it viable to have the Georgian Stalin as a Russian leader), as was Prussia for Germany later (Frederick in Civ4).

So far, every civ game had America, Aztecs, England(!), France, Germany, Russia, Rome, Greece, Egypt, Persia, India, China and Japan in its vanilla version, if I'm not mistaken, always under this names, other civs to follow in expansions. (and except for the HRE, I could live with all of them)

 

[tonberry]

BTW only settled cultures (with agricultural origins) can be civilizations as civilization really means something like 'constructed world'. So nomadic cultures like the Mongols or hunter-gatherer cultures like most of native Americans are excluded by definition. It does not mean inferior at all just cannot be considered civilized. The fact that such parties are playable in the Civ series means that the developers use the term 'civilization' much instead of the term 'culture'.

Sorry to tell you but Mongols always had a good place in the civilizations roster. They were in the original release of Civ4 and the second expansion of the Civ3. They were always one my favorite civ. I don't mind too much their exclusion tough. I know they'll be added eventually and understand that there are many civ in the world deserving a spot.

 

[Bibor]

*snip*

 

[Jimbo30]

And only 30% of Scots speak Scots (and here in Edinburgh, I don't actually know ANYONE that speaks it!).

Maybe you should get your arse out of Edinburgh every so often?

 

[Jimbo30]

Somehow it's funny that Elizabeth's greatest conquest for England still is not accepted in full. Scotland was won by simply having no heir and having the Scottish king reside in London, making him an English one essentially. By the way, why should the nationality of royality matter all that much? - the rulers of England were of French(Plantagenet), Welsh(Tudor), Scottish(effectively French again), Dutch(Orange) and afterwards German noble houses..

Rofl yes, it only took three attempts for Englands begging for Scotlands alliance to work, and the 3rd time they even let us have kingship.

What a seriously whacked version of events you've been taught btw.

England was the dominant part of Great Britain at all times, as was Russia for all states it was part of (making it viable to have the Georgian Stalin as a Russian leader), as was Prussia for Germany later (Frederick in Civ4).

Define dominant? To me that would mean actual dominion? You know, over the Island? It's not like it's even all that big, and I can't think of any other real nation that didn't manage dominion over it's whole island.

Only poor England didn't manage it, against the weak Scots, less than 10x population. We won the war btw, did I mention that?