The Worst War Ever?

[Verbose]

If it's horrific actual battles we're discussing:
Maybe WWI, Verdun, combat inside Fort Vaux.
Cramped, dark, dirty, and since the water supply has been cut, everyone's major problem is thirst. Men crawling through tunnels, knifing each other in desperate fighting over the toilets...

 

[Domen]

battling heavily armored Teutonic Knights throughout the morning and the middle of the day

With the exception that not all Teutonic knights were heavily armored.

Actually more than half of the Teutonic army were relatively light troops.

The Lithuanian light infantry divisions at the Battle of Grunwald had it pretty tough.

I don't think Lithuanians brought any infantry with them to Grunwald.

They were most probably an exclusively mounted force.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Were they?

I base my knowledge of Grunwald on those rather old Polish War movies my dad made me watch as a kid, so I am not surprised if I am wrong.

 

[Domen]

But even in that old movie (there is only one Polish movie about Grunwald, unless I missed sth.) Lithuanians were cavalry.

Lithuanian forces can be seen between 0:52 and 3:36 charging Teutonic lines:


Link to video.

Also some Teutonic light cavalry (covered only by mail armor) can be seen in the movie.

However, in real both Poles & Teutons made extensive use of mounted crossbowmen, which is not represented.

 

[TheLastOne36]

What's the name of the movie? I feel like watching it again after that.

Also, it's Light Calvary, not Light infantry, my mistake.

 

[Domen]

Yes. But Lithuanians also had large amount of heavy cavalry (for example I doubt Lithuanian nobles and Ruthenian nobles from Grand Duchy used light equipment), but they were equipped in Ruthenian (i.e. eastern) and Baltic style (so for example they rather didn't use plate armors - like many Poles & Teutons did).

For example instead of coat of plates + mail armour they used lamellar armour.

In the Polish army only units from Mazovia and conquered Ruthenian territories (i.e. Halych-Volhynia, which was under Polish rule since 14th century) included many knights armed in Ruthenian-Baltic style. Other units were equipped in Western style.

In the Teutonic army native Prussian subjects of the Teutonic order (both cavalry and infantry) used such equipped. But also ethnic German soldiers of the Teutonic order adopted some forms of the Baltic weapons from their Lithuanian enemies - for example pavise shields and sulica spears.

What's the name of the movie? I feel like watching it again after that.

The name of the movie is "Krzyżacy" ("Teutonic Knights"):

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054004/

It is available on You Tube - entire movie is here in one part:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koJXC7Byh1A


Link to video.

But without English subtitles.

I recommend you download the movie from You Tube (using for example Real Player) and then you search for English subs.

 

[TheLastOne36]

I wouldn't mind learning more about the Piast dynasty, unfortunate English language doesn't have much information on the internet. (I have trouble reading in Polish)

The youtube video will do, I understand it fine.

 

[Domen]

However, in real both Poles & Teutons made extensive use of mounted crossbowmen, which is not represented.

"Krzyżacy" movie is also not very accurate regarding the way how cavalry in this part of Europe (also in Germany) fought at that time.

What we can see in this movie are chaotic, disorderly mobs of cavalry charging each other without any coordination - apart from maybe that scene with king Jagiello giving orders to different tactical units (so called banners) to reinforce various sections of the Polish-Lituanian battle line:


Link to video.

In fact Polish & Teutonic cavalry banners at Grunwald most likely (nowadays most historians support this view) fought in wedge-column formations:

Wedge-column formations at Grunwald were most likely similar to these ones (described by Albrecht Achilles in his "Unterricht" from 1477):

Wedge of each banner always consisted of best "lancers" with heaviest armor and best close-combat equipment. Column consisted of lighter "shooters" (in its central part) and remaining heavy "lancers" (on both sides / wings). So lighter troops were protected from all sides by heavier troops.

"Shooters" could attack enemy from distance using their crossbows even when banner was on the move (shooting above heads of "lancers" in front of them).

Best-equipped & armored horsemen from the wedge were the "striking power" / "shock power" of a banner in close combat.

So basically a banner deployed in a wedge-column formation, while charging the enemy, was relying on: a) firepower of crossbows from the center of its formation to "soften" enemy unit with their fire before clash, and then on: b) striking power of heavy lancers, mainly those finest ones from the wedge.