Theocracy or Free Religion

[RedRalph]

I'm a bit of a war monger, noble level, and I always go for Free Religion ASAP, I think the Research bonus negates the exp points you get for Theocracy, any thoughts? The diplo bonus is handy too as more foten than not the majority of the world aint my religion. Any thoughts?

 

[DaveMcW]

The 10% research bonus isn't that great, because it doesn't boost the output of libraries and other buildings. Your total research only goes up by 5% or so.

The diplo penalty is definitely a good reason switch. But if you have some good religious buddies to trade with, maybe you don't need the heathens to like you.

I don't think you're much of a warmonger if you want to give up an extra promotion for every unit.

 

[ABigCivFan]

If at war, Theo is much better than FR.

the 10% research bonues is very weak, if you have 50 base :research: in capital, it only gives you 5 more :research:

Theo allows:

1). +2xp per city, it is like adding a military instructor to ALL your cities.

2). If you spread your religion well. you can see enemy cities. free military intel.

 

[Dirk1302]

Indeed, if you have your religion well spread through your empire all the religious civics are stronger than FR barring execptional circumstances as theocracy wtihout warring, OR while only building units everywhere or running pacifism with
100+ units on the map. But the diplomatic situation often demands a switch to FR.

 

[obsolete]

I avoid ever getting monoethism, so that means I never get theocracy. I don't mind this, because it keeps my tech slots low, which means I am able to trade for much bigger techs, and I get GGs to boost exp anyhow, so theocracy is just an expensive and almost useless civic to me.

 

[RedRalph]

I don't think you're much of a warmonger if you want to give up an extra promotion for every unit.

Yeah but I do like being able to send tanks in to fight musketmen

 

[Mango]

Free religion is only good if you're gunning for space race victory or diplomatic victory and you need a friendly from another religion.

+2 xp is far better if you're a warmonger, and if you have tanks while your opponent still has muskets then you probably should have taken him out when you had cavalry while he had longbows.

 

[[db]Perseforis]

I'm a bit of a war monger, noble level, and I always go for Free Religion ASAP, I think the Research bonus negates the exp points you get for Theocracy, any thoughts? The diplo bonus is handy too as more foten than not the majority of the world aint my religion. Any thoughts?

Hmm. I echo most other's thoughts.

Theocracy for war. Free Religion for diplomacy.

The thing I'd add is I'm all for Organised Religion for the build bonus and to spread my religions (mostly during peace times!) prior to going Free Religion later on if I have 3+ religions or if I need the diplo bonus!

Don't forget that having religion can also be a diplo bonus - my current game (Fractal, Huge, 11 Civs) I lucked out - there are at least nine of us in close proximity on one huge continent and I've founded three religions, have four religions and my state religion (Hinduism) is the state religion of three other civs. With a bit of top-shelf trading I've even managed to stay on at least even (and mostly better) terms with those who don't share my religion.

Now all I have to do is roll my catapults through Hannibal....

 

[InvisibleStalke]

Normally I would go Theology for warring, but in some circumstances Free religion can be useful for warring too.

- Late game you are often taking cities with 2-3 religions that may not be yours. Free religion means 2-3 extra happy in those cities and fast border pops without the need to build theatres (which is good because you may not be in slavery any more).

- If you have multiple religions of your own due to multiple holy cities, you may want the extra happiness from free religion more than you care about the XP bonus.

- It may allow you to bring in allies into a war who would otherwise hate you.

- Your state religion is not sufficiently spread for enough cities to benefit from the Theology bonus. Some games I find lend themselves to a tech path which avoids religious techs and I may end up with just a variety of religions that have spread at random into my cities.

- Ideally you should run Theology before a war - when you rapidly construct the bulk of your army - and then either org religion (improved whip productivity in new cities and fast spread of your religion to them) or free religion (extra happy and border pops) during the war. Hurray for Spiritual.

 

[NoMan]

- Ideally you should run Theology before a war - when you rapidly construct the bulk of your army - and then either org religion (improved whip productivity in new cities and fast spread of your religion to them) or free religion (extra happy and border pops) during the war. Hurray for Spiritual.

That's a good idea. Wish I had thought of that in my current game.

I would add Theocracy is preferred pre-industrial but I would go with free religion post-industrial to fight WW.

 

[RedRalph]

The thing is, do I have to adopt an actual religion to run Theocracy? Like if I change my Civic back to Theocracy now, , will it force me to select a religion or can I be an "Atheist Theocracy"?

 

[JujuLautre]

You can be an atheist theocrat. But you will never have the XP bonus, only the "no religion can be spread" effect

 

[hvevo]

I often stick with religious civics until the discovery of Scientific Method, which obsoletes monasteries. After that my tech rate usually drops significantly (usually have 4+ monasteries in my science cities, for a total of 40% boost in science), and if I'm aiming at Diplo or Dom victory, I prefer to switch to FR. Not only gives this boost in happiness and science but also helps with diplomatic relations.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The thing is, do I have to adopt an actual religion to run Theocracy? Like if I change my Civic back to Theocracy now, , will it force me to select a religion or can I be an "Atheist Theocracy"?

No, you go back to your last State Religion

 

[pigswill]

Depending on how much you rely on your capital you also have the option of going for vassalage instead of bureaucracy and run religious civic of choice.

 

[obsolete]

I don't agree with people claiming theocracy is better during wartime because it is war oriented.

FR keeps enemies off your back. If you're warring, you certainly don't need your opponent to easily bribe someone to join in against you. Someone who doesn't like you because of your heathen religion...

There is another issue though, a big one. FR allows a lot of tech trading. I love trading for Gunpowder, and getting my cavalry online generations before the AI, etc. Stuff like this overpowers theocracy by a long shot.

 

[mudphud]

The diplomatic effect of FR makes it hard to judge it against others. If you have some buddies who are all the same religion why would you go FR? Even if you aren't warlike pacifism is pretty good. On the other hand going FR may be the route if you need to for tech trading.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Warmonger or not, you should abondon theocracy when you have conquered enough cities so that whatever religion you choose, only half your empire will benefit from it. Even in the late game, sometimes religion is your only source of culture in your newly conquered cities. Theocracy is therefore a niche tech.