There can never be peace...

[RaidandTrade]

Three questions arising in relation to this:

1. What prompts an AI to move to this level of hate?

2. Do they ever negotiate peace or are they true to their word?

3. Are some AIs more likely to get to this state than others?


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[HughFran]

There are times when the AI will refuse to negotiate peace and it is normally because of a combination of factors. If you are the one to declare war then that is like double the insult to them than if they declare war and it will take longer for them to consider peace. If they think they are militarily in a stronger position than you then they will not accept your terms of peace but might offer you terms which include taking some of your cities. If there has been an accumulation of hate between you (different ideologies, opposing congress votes, different allies) and the AI has a strong military, then be prepared for a very long war. The only way to get them to the table is to wear down their army to the point where you are way stronger than them or you are close to taking one of their major cities - then watch as they come grovelling to you!!

 

[beetle]

What prompts an AI to move to this level of hate?

The AIs enter into war trades with each other like the player might with an AI. You may have noticed that if you sometimes cannot ask for peace and their is a mouse-over message something thing like “you cannot negotiate for peace for X turns because of a deal you made with another player.”

So some of the no-negotiations is owing to that. But I have not been able to figure out which messages specifically track to that. There is some variation to the message, but maybe that is just for flavor?

Do they ever negotiate peace or are they true to their word?

They will eventually negotiate peace. It can take many turns though. Sometimes you have to be clearly wining. Sometimes you just need to wait it out.

Are some AIs more likely to get to this state than others?

Yes, and it directly correlated to other warmonger traits, but I cannot be more specific than that.

If they think they are militarily in a stronger position than you then they will not accept your terms of peace but might offer you terms which include taking some of your cities.

If they will accept peace at all, they will accept a white peace. Many people characterize this as an exploit

The only way to get them to the table is to wear down their army to the point where you are way stronger than them or you are close to taking one of their major cities - then watch as they come grovelling to you!!

But if they have agreed to war due to a deal with another AI, then even if you are crushing them you will have to wait 15 turns.

And then sometimes you are crushing them, but the AI will only accept white peace. Even though they have some money left. So their hate of you is definitely a factor.

 

[HughFran]

Sorry to sound dumb here but what is white peace?

 

[beetle]

White peace where you just make peace and neither side gets anything. If you can get to the peace negotiation screen, just delete the cities or whatever ridiculous thing the AI is asking for, and then click the peace button. The AI will accept the offer.

It is a similar mechanic to how you ask a friendly AI what they want for a spare lux and they respond with 9 gpt plus 5 horses and 5 iron. So you delete the horses and iron and they still take the deal.

 

[reddishrecue]

The ai sometimes does that when you deserve peace. If its really conquering your civilization then the ai would probably find it difficult to make peace with you.

 

[Sclb]

Certain AI such as Shaka will not make peace unless you manage to capture his cities or by some miracle until 100 or so turns passed. Usually it's a bad idea to steal workers from him if you expect peace for that reason.

 

[Kullervo]

I'm pretty sure their likelihood of being in constant war is based on their Boldness flavor. There's a detailed chart of all these flavors somewhere on the net, but I don't have it saved.

Certain leaders have the maximum 8 for boldness, like Napoleon and Catherine. These civs will not ask for peace even if they're losing pretty badly. Like, they would have to be getting their face completely caved in before they admitted it. I've had games before where I would take four of Napoleon's cities, lose only one unit in the process, and he still demands my three largest cities in exchange for peace. This attitude seems to drop off really quickly, though. A number of other factors come into play. Montezuma's Boldness is really high, for instance, but he's also very likely to be Afraid, so I rarely have that problem with him.

And yeah, as stated before: If the AI thinks that it's superior to you in strength, it will not give in to peace talks very easily. Also compounding insults will cause the war to be longer, etc.

 

[phillipwyllie]

Certain AI such as Shaka will not make peace unless you manage to capture his cities or by some miracle until 100 or so turns passed. Usually it's a bad idea to steal workers from him if you expect peace for that reason.

If you spawn next to Shaka he must be disabled before he reaches Civil Service or your Renaissance will be spent killing his Impis(or watching your cities fall). He always covets your lands.

 

[beetle]

There's a detailed chart of all these flavors somewhere on the net, but I don't have it saved.

It is pretty easy to remember, without saving it as a bookmark, but I don’t think it actually answers OP question conclusively: civdata.com

 

[sixty4half]

If you spawn next to Shaka he must be disabled before he reaches Civil Service or your Renaissance will be spent killing his Impis(or watching your cities fall). He always covets your lands.

That's not entirely true. While Shaka is an aggressive warmonger, he is also a loyal ally. He will rarely backstab. Stacking Green Modifiers with him is actually worth it more than most AIs and definitely more than other warmongers. Give him a Lux for 4GPT and give him Embassies (after an appropriate amount of time) and try not to settle cities within 6 tiles of his cities and you should be alright for the most part.

The main problem comes when he forward settles you. He isn't intentionally starting , but because of close borders and "covet land" his Red Modifiers might start to outweigh some of the Green ones. Keep stacking Green ones to make up for this. Give him a Horse. Give him an Iron. Every little thing adds up.

Obviously there is a limit to this. If his Grand Scheme is Domination Victory, and he is down to the point where your capital is the only one left, he'll backstab you to try and win.



If you can't stack Greens; You can always bribe him to war other civs during Renaissance. Wait till you get to Longswordsmen or Crossbows and then his Impis aren't as big of a pain in the ass.

 

[reddishrecue]

Sometimes impies could chew longswords even. I tried them out once with a couple of composites once and saw them lose a couple of lines to mass impies.

 

[Sclb]

The problem with allying Shaka isn't about the backstab. He's very likely to get negative diplo with every other civs, so every other civs will hate you.

 

[BurnBabyBurn]

I played out a game last night with a random roll of the dice. I got Boudicca and spawned within 8 hexes of the Zulu Capitol. I stole 2 of his workers and killed 2 of his warriors right off. Then went straight for CBs-PicWarriors...

I took his Capitol right off(I experimented with Liberty though and I just am too far behind to win the game) but Catherine and Maria of Austria both DOWed me. I tried something new, as Persia sent a horde to my gates... I denounced him, and he actually retreated away ??? Weirdest suggestion I got on here that actually worked. The Pictish Warrior held up the Pikes just about. The Zulu Impi held off Darius the entire game well into gunpowder and cannon. Had I gone Tradition I probably would have won the game...

The other weapon that shocked me was I believe Siam's War Elephants(I had an epic start with salt against these and Mountains protecting me, these things were like bulldozers and my CBs-Spear(not enough spear) just were eaten alive) I do not believe I have ever seen anything quite like this.

If you are spawned next to warmongering races and you do not have forest-hill-mountain tiles to protect you, you prepare to sack them... Also beware capturing more than 1 city in the early eras(BadBoy) negotiate and hold them in war and pillage them to death(more profitable) Zulus were more than happy to peace with me and give me a city after I destroyed their entire army and took their Capitol. : )

Sometimes impies could chew longswords even. I tried them out once with a couple of composites once and saw them lose a couple of lines to mass impies.

 

[Sclb]

If you took an AI capital early before they found a 2nd city, you have huge warmonger penalty and might invite remaining AI to join DoW. It is difficult to defend against that.
The other thing is Siam's Elephants are basically strong but slow knights so of course they would chew through your classical era CB/Spears. You really need pikes to hold them.

 

[reddishrecue]

Yeah, xb asap is a must.

 

[Primacide]

Back to the OP: one of the most effective ways I've found to get the other guy to accept peace is to bribe another civ to declare war on them. The AI just hates being at war with two civs at once. Just can't stand it. Drives em crazy. Like lice and dreadlocks, dude.

Get a second front open, wait a couple of turns, and then you will usually get a pretty sweet peace deal.

 

[RaidandTrade]

Like lice and dreadlocks, dude.

Will try some lice. Thanks (all) for the tips.

I've usually just sucked it up and pushed on thinking that was their final position on the matter of peace.


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[Volcanon]

Civ 5 AI almost always negotiate peace but you have to give it time. You can't declare on turn 1 and get a treaty the next turn, unlike some older games.

They will be willing to negotiate faster if you are winning.

Also I've had the AI demand cities before but always settle just for a treaty in Civ 5.

Civ 5 is actually better about this than previous games. In Civ 1/2/3 and SMAC you're virtually in permanent war against some of the AI if they hate you enough, and often only because of your social picks or because you're the biggest empire. I've had situations in SMAC where one or all of Yang, Miriam and Santiago refuse to sign any peace treaty of any kind and continue making outlandish demands for money and territory until I destroy their last city. If you give into their demands for free cities (often ones you've captured from them), they nevertheless betray you within a few turns.

 

[reddishrecue]

Some Ai will attack you for no reason, by surprise and out of nowhere. Having troops available becomes important because of this.