ntr0py
Chieftain
I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. The past two games I got randomly dowed by friendly neighbors (Attila, Napoleon). It just depends on personality.
They need to hotfix AI agression now
- Thread starter godman85
- Start date
dashwinner
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2010
- Messages
- 320
yeah... no
1. You're playing on King.
2. You captured 2 of his settlers - in the early game that is a HUGE loss for anyone. Judging from the screenshot, you also blocked off his chance of expansion. After your first war, and probably all his gpt in the peace deal, there really wasn't much he could do. He could have built units, sure, at the cost of being even further behind the rest of the civs. He had to focus on his economy and to rebuild his gpt, instead of going into the red with unit maintenance. IMO I don't think your example is a great one to advocate them 'definitely needing a patch', although a patch is definitely on its way.
apocalypse105
Deity
- Joined
- May 17, 2011
- Messages
- 2,705
exactly its a shame i can't give thumbs up like in youtube so here you go
only certain leaders are know warmongers
Does the AI weigh terrain? Like on a fractal map with a narrow choke point, only a sea invasion is possible. I was in a game with Monty right next to me and I was a 5 city tall Babylon pumping food and science like crazy. All I had defending was one warrior, with money saved up to mount a defense if need be. He never invaded. In fact, he declared friendship with me before denouncing me a few turns before I was set to launch. I just don't get it. Pretty sure this was Immortal difficulty. I had enough delegates to prevent a Diplo victory which was the only other remote threat to me.
There are definitely several problems with the BNW AI but it's perfectly normal since we haven't got any patch yet. I don't think agression is the problem, I think it's more a combination of buggy DoW checks (the checks AI performs just before DoW) and also a bit of lack of money early in the game.
The things I see :
- a check performed by the AI just before a DoW seems to fail too frequently. So you see AI building huge armies and still not declaring war. AI units just stand here ruining their economy for nothing. This DoW check must be buggy because there aren't enough opportunistic war anymore right now compared to G&K. If you leave your cities undefended on high level and your AI neighbour has a huge army, you should be attacked.
- undefended cities (not frequent) : Portugal on Emperor settled far from its land to take some land from me but long after that, its 2 new cities at my door were still nearly undefended (1 warrior each).
We had a declaration of friendship so maybe that's why portugal didn't defend the cities, but I couldn't resist easily grabbing those 2 cities, they should have been better defended, especially since those cities were both far from its capital AND at my door.
The things I see :
- a check performed by the AI just before a DoW seems to fail too frequently. So you see AI building huge armies and still not declaring war. AI units just stand here ruining their economy for nothing. This DoW check must be buggy because there aren't enough opportunistic war anymore right now compared to G&K. If you leave your cities undefended on high level and your AI neighbour has a huge army, you should be attacked.
- undefended cities (not frequent) : Portugal on Emperor settled far from its land to take some land from me but long after that, its 2 new cities at my door were still nearly undefended (1 warrior each).
We had a declaration of friendship so maybe that's why portugal didn't defend the cities, but I couldn't resist easily grabbing those 2 cities, they should have been better defended, especially since those cities were both far from its capital AND at my door.
MonorailCat
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2010
- Messages
- 74
I noticed that in my last two Emperor games. Enemy Armies shuffling around my border and denouncing me .. but never declare war. They just watched me building my spaceship.
Funny thing is in another Game I played, Germany shuffled around my borders for ages .. and then attacked the very same turn I lost influence on a nearby Citystate ally.
That's exactly what I want changed but the AI is definitely better about decision making in the Early part of the game so it seems. I completely agree with ur statement on that part of AI army not attacking to win. Hopefully it's miswriten code and not intentional.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
apocalypse105
Deity
- Joined
- May 17, 2011
- Messages
- 2,705
NO definitly not the problem with gods and king was you couldn't prevent early wars.
they should give you a positif modifier if the Ai is trading with you.(trade routes- so he doesn't declare war
however if you settle near them they should see that as a act of agression that needs to be changed the AI needs to regognise agressive settling again like earlier
don't need to make the AI hyper agressive again just need to add a few negatif modifiers that are removed like settling close
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2008
- Messages
- 14,928
Half my trading partners would go bankrupt if they declared war on one of their neighbors.
Interesting. It could mean the final check before DoW accounts for total power including city states. Maybe the bug is the AI overvalues city states when it checks for enemy power before DoW.
I disagree. That's the old debate between an AI that plays to win and an AI that lets you play your style.
I'm definitely in the "human player-like" AI camp. I want to feel the AI tries to stop me from winning in every possible way.
When I play any game that's the same thing I expect anyway. When you play chess your opponent tries to make the best move, even if this opponent is the CPU. You don't ask him to roleplay an opening you like. You just adapt to him as he adapts to you.
If the best move is a military attack as it is here (if I'm defenseless and AI has a huge army, attacking is clearly the best move), so be it.
Being friends doesn't mean you must throw the opportunities to the air. Portugal AI settled 2 undefended cities near me. We had a DoF. Guess what ? I took the cities. I expect the AI to do the same, otherwise it's boring, it would mean they don't even go for the win correctly.
In chess terms, not attacking defenseless cities when you have a big army is a bad move.
DemonMaster
A.K.A. Fenhorn
... and welcome to the concept of EU. We might not always like each other, we may oven dislike each other, or heaven forbid, worse, but it started as a trade union to prevent war and well, since Europe has been called "The Continent of War" sometimes, I must say (even though I personally dislike EU) it has made us need each other so much that the only wars you see is on the sport arenas (hopefully).
But, hmm, that hasn't stopped us (EU) and our main trading partner (US) to go to war elsewhere, sadly.
This was very well reflected in my latest game. Me (Poland), Ottoman and Portuguese went Order, the other went Freedom and Autocracy. There where so many wars in the late game so "we" on the same side, only traded with "safe" CSs and each other.
Sure, there isn't any ideologies in the early games, but I have noticed that to much trade can sometimes prevent wars. In my game (as Poland) I was also very religious. There where several wars in the Classic/Medieval eras between religious groups, good for me that I was smart enough to foresee that and most of my early game trade routes went to my religious partners.
There is significantly less wars in the Ancient era, but in all my games so far, there has been some wars in classic eras (mostly by classic era civs) and even more wars in the medieval era and later. This is good change. There is still a chance for an early warmonger to come for you (it happened to me extremely early), but most of the time you have the chance to at least build up something. Pretty much the same as in other civ games, actually. I remember Civ 4, the only one that ever did a warrior rush there where the barbarians.
IAmOzymandias
Warlord
Everybody who is complaining about the AI needs to play an online game so they can complain about connectivity issues instead.
phillipwyllie
Wannabe Deity
I wouldn't say the AI is less aggressive, it seems to be better at planning for a future military conflict with you. It doesn't plonk a city right on your borders to really peeve you off, but rather near them hindering your own expansion. It tries to trade with you and be your friend. The only way to really know for sure is if you spy on them, and even that doesn't give you the time when they will attack. In my last 2 games I have to say the AI played the game well(Ottomans and Germany). To win these contests you have to be the aggressor, and war is costly, very costly.
Wow I'm scratching my head at the OP. My first game on King playing Morocco sure it was peaceful for a long time then I had Boudicca DOW me around 1100AD and after that it was almost continuous warfare amongst the 8 nations till the end of game.
Stepping up to Immortal OMFG. Every single game I get aggressive neighbors who build up massive forces and spawn 3-4 cities to my one and breed like cockroaches. I have yet to get away with sitting around with a minimal military going for wonders and/or science victory. Every single time that happens I see a massive force at my doorstep and an invasion next. Hell even in the current game of Venice after I took two CS with pretty sizeable forces Genghis still brings a large force my way and tried to attack me. Luckily the 3rd CS I purchased had a sizeable army and I sent him scurrying away.
Making good progress with my Venice and Poland immortal games and confident I can pull off victories but it has been anything but peaceful lol.
Stepping up to Immortal OMFG. Every single game I get aggressive neighbors who build up massive forces and spawn 3-4 cities to my one and breed like cockroaches. I have yet to get away with sitting around with a minimal military going for wonders and/or science victory. Every single time that happens I see a massive force at my doorstep and an invasion next. Hell even in the current game of Venice after I took two CS with pretty sizeable forces Genghis still brings a large force my way and tried to attack me. Luckily the 3rd CS I purchased had a sizeable army and I sent him scurrying away.
Making good progress with my Venice and Poland immortal games and confident I can pull off victories but it has been anything but peaceful lol.
King Rad
Warlord
I have had almost nothing but war in the game I've been playing. My first game of BNW - prince level, with me as Arabia and all the new civs; large map; continents; all other setting standard. I got stuck in the upper left corner of the map, with Shaka as my nearest neighbor. Started a trade route with him, then he declared war and very efficiently took my 2nd city (had just placed a 3rd one - don't remember exact start date). Eventually we made peace, then approximately 10 turns later I attacked him and took my city back. eventually peace again. roughly 10 turns later, he attacks again. I take one of his cities, which he retakes - peace. Then he attacks city state under my protection - I declare war and take city state back and liberate it. peace. 10 turns later, he claims i'm threatening him on his border - which adjoins my 2nd city and where i've been stationing troops against what i assume is another forthcoming attack. I say, 'you're right to fear" and the war begins again. i'm attacking his capital, which he loses and then retakes, and he offers peace, including his other city. i'm now building troops for a final assault after the current peace treaty ends. all of the above is before turn 182.
i've only met a couple of other civs as i've been a little busy with Shaka. and I'm behind in virtually every area, culture, science, infrastructure, because of having to constantly build military units. I've just researched camel archers [whatever tech that is] and expect to wipe him out on our next war, which is about 4-5 turns away. but he initially brought trebuckets and impis [have I mentioned how much I hate impis!
] and very effectively used them to take my city and/or to recapture ones of his that i took. So, only one game, but definitely as aggressive as any I played on G&K, but more importantly, when he launched his first attack, it took him about two turns to take my city - really improved tactics. And his subsequent attacks were well coordinated as well.
I'm guessing that as some have stated, the AI is programmed to look at more options and results than just automatically going to war, which may be why some seem to see a reduced aggressiveness. But if the conditions are right (or wrong, depending on your point of view), the conditions are definitely there for war. I've only had one other game that I can recall [over 1,600 hours played] that I was involved in anywhere close to this much war.
i've only met a couple of other civs as i've been a little busy with Shaka. and I'm behind in virtually every area, culture, science, infrastructure, because of having to constantly build military units. I've just researched camel archers [whatever tech that is] and expect to wipe him out on our next war, which is about 4-5 turns away. but he initially brought trebuckets and impis [have I mentioned how much I hate impis!
] and very effectively used them to take my city and/or to recapture ones of his that i took. So, only one game, but definitely as aggressive as any I played on G&K, but more importantly, when he launched his first attack, it took him about two turns to take my city - really improved tactics. And his subsequent attacks were well coordinated as well.I'm guessing that as some have stated, the AI is programmed to look at more options and results than just automatically going to war, which may be why some seem to see a reduced aggressiveness. But if the conditions are right (or wrong, depending on your point of view), the conditions are definitely there for war. I've only had one other game that I can recall [over 1,600 hours played] that I was involved in anywhere close to this much war.
The first game I played every civ was friendly for a long time. Hiawatha eventually declared war, but I did feel the AI was very passive. I have now started another game, including Zulu's, and they DOW'D me in a very short time. So as others have stated, it seems the way around passive games is to include warmongers!
I think the warmongers (or looking more for such an opportunity) should be more than just the Zulus and Huns. It should be a lot more that have really good UU or those finding a ripe opportunity. But for at least half of the civs, I suspect they are not even evaluating such opportunities. They shouldn't do so if the situation is not favorable, but they shouldn't have that taken away either.
In my current game (small/emperor/normal speed) I am Theodora. I am on a continent with Monty and Darius two normally aggressive leaders. It is turn 260 and I have not been attacked yet, despite the fact I have a grand total of three composite bowman, one warior a couple of dromons and a caravel out exploring. I am basically begging them to attack but they won't.
Similar threads
