This has probably been asked countless times, but switching from Despotism...

[Captain Corky]

I currently am in a despot government, and every time I switch to a Republic, I can't afford the cost of the military. I have 5 cities and 7 towns. That means 22 unit support, whereas in a despot, I have 48. You can see the clear advantage of despot from the military angle.

Monarchy would give me 34 unit support. So the question in my mind is how, or perhaps when to make the transition. Do I build up my towns into cities, and then make the switch? There are other things to consider besides unit support, but it's a definite bottleneck.

 

[civverguy]

You should disband some warriors that are in your cities. In republic, you don't have military police so you don't need many units in you cities.

 

[psweetman1590]

Plus, make sure you have roads on every worked tile. You need the commerce.

You don't need a huge army either, as said. Disbanding old units should dramatically cut costs.

Waiting until at least some towns become cities is not a bad idea either, though not mandatory.

 

[Aabraxan]

It has been asked before, but it's a problem that continues to trouble me. In fact, I asked a very similar question here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=188837

Maybe something in that thread will help.

 

[Kool Keith]

At the time I switch to republic, I generally don't have any military except for a couple of warriors. I put all of my shields into settlers and workers that early in the game. Then, when it's time for war I can throw together my attack force pretty quickly because my cities have plenty of population and thus plenty of shields. And by that time I am generating enough commerce that the cost of military is no issue at all.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

If you have a lot of units, those units should be conquering new towns. So you wont be paying for very long. Don't build defensive units.

 

[gmaharriet]

Also keep in mind that during your turns of anarchy, your towns continue to grow. What was a town going into anarchy, may become a city by the time it ends...or close to. I usually try to play into that, revolting as towns reach size 5 or 6. Or sometimes I wait until 3 or 4 settlers have just completed in several towns.

 

[DBear]

Generally I wait until I have markets or at least am capable of building them before the switchover.

 

[Desertsnow]

I'm of the same mindset as DBear; as I've said often enough, I don't get out of Despotism until I have at least several markets either operational or under construction, all the more so if I've had good growth. On the other hand, it is still good to get out of Despotism as soon is it becomes feasible.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I don't build markets before i have conquered up to 5 luxes or so. I don't wait for republic that long.

 

[gmaharriet]

There's something I haven't seen mentioned in THIS thread, but it's been in almost every other thread I've read on the same topic.

Republic gives you a commerce bonus...1 additional gold generated on every worked tile that already was generating at least one. That alone increases your civ's total income.

Let's say your towns were generating 60 gpt in Despot. In Republic it's more likely to be 100 gpt. (I'm pulling numbers out of the sky here. ) You can afford to lower your research slider from 100% to 60% and still get the same rate of research, while reducing the apparent loss of gold when you first come out of your revolt.

That, combined with eliminating your obsolete MP's and your towns' pop increasing to city level for unit support, should get your economy under control, and it will continue to improve.

 

[Aceman101]

I don't think i'll ever get used to Republic. I like Monarchy (Warmonger Choice).

 

[Sashie VII]

IMO the reason Republic confuses many is that immediately after the change, it doesn't seem to be a better position for you. This is because the situation is often not optimal for Republic yet. For instance; small towns, lots of units, still in landgrab phase etc.

For some time after you switch, it's a matter of managing unit costs, keeping only units you must have around, and really keeping an eye on the tiles your citizens are working. Once your empire is consolidated, necessary terrain improved, and population grows, the Republic's advantages begin to assert itself.

You can see the clear advantage of despot from the military angle.

From a military angle, units that does nothing is a waste. Republic don't have MPs, so regular warriors policing your capital for example can be disbanded. As WackenOpenAir pointed out:

If you have a lot of units, those units should be conquering new towns. So you wont be paying for very long. Don't build defensive units.

Initially you'll have cash and happiness problems, but in the long run it'll be worth the extra attention to keep things in hand.

Even for warmongering, the bonus cash from Republic is tremendous and outshines Monarchy in the long run almost all the time.

 

[Aceman101]

I don't know why, but even with all the advantages, I can't adjust to Republic. I've tried Republic many times, but not once was I pleased.

 

[Aabraxan]

As Sashie VII pointed out, an early Republic does need a little extra attention to function well. My economy consistently drags when I first make the switch. Once I've done sufficient conquering, though, Republic really starts to take off. What is it that you don't like about Republic, Aceman101?

 

[Aceman101]

Everything! Ok not absolutely everything but...

1. I dislike the 2 gold per turn per unit
2. I dislike the low unit support.
3. I dislike the WW.
4. I dislike the no MP.
5. I dislike having a small army.
6. I dislike the slow science rate because you have to increase the lux slider a lot due to WW.

Things I like about it...

1. I like the free commerce bonus.
That's it. I only like one thing about republic.

 

[Sashie VII]

1. I dislike the 2 gold per turn per unit

2. I dislike the low unit support.

3. I dislike the WW.

4. I dislike the no MP.

5. I dislike having a small army.

6. I dislike the slow science rate because you have to increase the lux slider a lot due to WW.

1. I don't like it too, but it balances the game. IMO, maintainance of 1 gpt per unit would've make Republic too strong.

2. I dislike having to pay more for troops too, but after the war is over I can keep less troops around so it's not really a big problem.

3. War Weariness isn't nice, true But it doesn't really matter as long as you fight efficiently; minimal losses, short wars etc.

4. No MP can be mitigated by other happiness factors; luxuries, buildings, luxury slider etc.

5. You don't have to have small army! Get more towns and specialist farms and you can afford a large army

6. Again, the slider doesn't have to stay high for long. Once you're done warring, the slider can go down a bit and your science gets up again. If you have a healthy treasury, you can afford to run negative income for a few turns for faster research of important techs.

IIRC someone once posted that a Republic at 50% science can outresearch a Monarchy at 100%, but I've not tested this so I can't really say.

 

[Aabraxan]

Everything! Ok not absolutely everything but...

1. I dislike the 2 gold per turn per unit
2. I dislike the low unit support.
3. I dislike the WW.
4. I dislike the no MP.
5. I dislike having a small army.
6. I dislike the slow science rate because you have to increase the lux slider a lot due to WW.

Fair enough. I think Sashie VII has addressed all of these pretty well. Clearly, the increased support and absence of WW make Monarchy the choice for AW games. But the extra unit support offered by Monarchy is only good if you're fielding the largest army that your gov't allows. In other words, you're wasting gold if you field anything smaller, because the gold that you're saving on unit support can't be used for anything else. Even though Republic offers less unit support, more gold is freed up for science or luxes.

Of all of the things that you've mentioned, they are all manageable in Republic. Nobody likes the 2gpt for over-the-limit unit support. But get enough towns down (which requires warring to clear out some room), and the commerce bonus overtakes the unit support problem. In my games, Republic stays hard on my economy until probably the middle of the MA. But after that, it really starts to take off. WW is a matter of fighting on your terms, not the AI's. Use the terrain and minimize losses. How high are you having to run your lux slider in Republic?

On the science issue, yes, you'll have to turn down the science slider for a little while after switching. But once you get your empire laid out and "tuned" for Republic, you'll easily outrun the AI. Besides, a little crafty trading goes a long way to overcoming that problem.

I've heard the same thing about a Republic at 50% doing the same research as Monarchy at 100%, but like Sashie VII, I haven't tested it. I don't have access to CA2 at the moment, but you can use the Economy tab in that program to test it.

Edit: Aceman101, if you really want to see Republic at its finest, try it out with a commercial civ. As you now have C3C, the Iroquois or the Romans come to mind. The Iros have, of course, the Mounted Warrior and start with, IIRC, Alphabet and Pottery. (IIRC, you're less than thrilled with the MW, but the IROs still start with Alphabet for the Rep. Slingshot & the ability to build granaries). The Romans start with Warrior Code and Alphabet, for early archers and a good jump on the Republic slingshot.

 

[Aceman101]

"How high are you having to run your lux slider in Republic?"

I hardly use Republic. But the last time I did use it, it was about 60% with WW

 

[Aabraxan]

Ouch. (10 chars)