This War is killing my Civ and still no-one will talk!

[DarkSchneider]

I started what I thought would be a relatively short war against Montezuma. It was infantry against grenadiers/rifles/cavalry and we had them in roughly equal numbers. After losing two of his cities, Monty capitulated to Brennus, and now I'm at war with Brennus.

The problem is, neither Brennus, nor any of his vassals will talk. Although Brennus will be even easier to deal with than Monty (Brennus just sent a stack of crossbowmen, knights and elephants) I can't afford the war weariness on my cities. I have jails in all of my cities, and in my capital alone there are 6 people out of work because they are opposing the war.

The war itself is going about as well as a war possibly can, I have a stack of infantry and 4 cannons. One turn to blow away a cities defenses, and kill all of the defenders. A turn to heal and then it's on to the next city.

I am fairly certain that Brennus will give me money and/or cities for peace. Yet I have to wait another 10 turns before diplomacy is an option! This is the last time I start a war before Mt rushmore is complete...

 

[Sjaramei]

Or just make sure you get the capitulation and not him next time?

Vassal system sucks, and it's silly it works that way

Oh and it's possible having war without Mt.Rushmore and jails. (I do it all the time,just let them starve! Suitable punishment for not working for the glory of my empire! )

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Haul your troops back to your territory and fight the invading forces off there until your enemies are willing to give up. Battles fought in territory where your culture is dominant contribute to the opponent's war weariness, not yours, and WW declines slowly over time if nothing is adding to it.

 

[DarkSchneider]

Haul your troops back to your territory and fight the invading forces off there until your enemies are willing to give up. Battles fought in territory where your culture is dominant contribute to the opponent's war weariness, not yours, and WW declines slowly over time if nothing is adding to it.

There are no enemy units on my soil at this point. In fact, there are very few left in Montezuma's territory. Just two cities left before Monty is done. It's strange though, I havn't really lost any units, at most one or two. It's probably becuase I'm running democracy/free speech/emancipation that they get angry so quickly.

 

[ds61514]

If your culture slider isn't up to 40%, you're not trying hard enough .

 

[Sjaramei]

Haul your troops back to your territory and fight the invading forces off there until your enemies are willing to give up. Battles fought in territory where your culture is dominant contribute to the opponent's war weariness, not yours, and WW declines slowly over time if nothing is adding to it.

AI gets almost no War Weariness at all. It's a no factor for them. Instead of retreating kill the newly made vassal as soon as possible since that will "end" the war and clear the former war weariness. In most cases the "Master" will agree to peace then too.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Pull your troops back anyway if you need to stem the WW. Taking a city, whether you keep it or raze it, gives you a HUGE shot of WW, and beating an enemy unit on their soil gives you a little bit per enemy unit. As many units as you're likely beating in a modern war like that, this WW will add up fast.

I forget the algorithm these values go into, but it goes something like this:

Attacking and beating an enemy unit: 1 WW point
Attacking an enemy unit and losing: 3 WW points
Getting attacked: 2 WW points, whether you win or lose
Taking a city: 6 WW points, whether you keep it or raze it
Firing a nuke: 12 WW points
Getting nuked: 3 WW points

All of those apply only if they happen on enemy soil except, of course, the getting nuked one.

 

[DarkSchneider]

Pull your troops back anyway if you need to stem the WW. Taking a city, whether you keep it or raze it, gives you a HUGE shot of WW, and beating an enemy unit on their soil gives you a little bit per enemy unit. As many units as you're likely beating in a modern war like that, this WW will add up fast.

I forget the algorithm these values go into, but it goes something like this:

Attacking and beating an enemy unit: 1 WW point
Attacking an enemy unit and losing: 3 WW points
Getting attacked: 2 WW points, whether you win or lose
Taking a city: 6 WW points, whether you keep it or raze it
Firing a nuke: 12 WW points
Getting nuked: 3 WW points

All of those apply only if they happen on enemy soil except, of course, the getting nuked one.

My goodness! And here I thought that beating the opponent and capturing his cities reduced WW, since it showed you were winning!

I think I'm just going to wait out the ten turn talking holdout, I just didn't expect to get it twice, since it was roughly 10 turns into the campaign against Monty that he vassaled to Brennus and started the 'no-talk' clock over.

Looks like I should get at least one more city out of it... My cities however are all starving, it's a really lucky thing I researched Biology.

Does having enemy naval units in your territory cause WW? At the beginning it took a really long time to thin out Brennus's frigates.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Nothing that happens in your territory gives you WW except getting nuked.

 

[Welnic]

WW is done on a per civ basis. Once you wipe Monty out you won't have his WW to deal with anymore, so that should be a huge boost. You won't have much WW with Brennus if you haven't taken any cities. Just crank up the culture and keep going.

 

[Mango]

If you're still running slavery you can just whip the angries away.

 

[EmperorFool]

WW is done on a per civ basis. Once you wipe Monty out you won't have his WW to deal with anymore, so that should be a huge boost.

This is key. If you can keep up the attack and wipe Monty out completely, you'll lose all of your WW (with him) and none of his past citizens will yearn to rejoin their homeland on the next turn. Just avoid doing anything with Brennus outside your cultural borders.

As ds61514 said, crank up the culture slider and battle away. If you can't do this and pay for your army, "lotsa people gonna die." Let them eat cake!

 

[DarkSchneider]

WW is done on a per civ basis. Once you wipe Monty out you won't have his WW to deal with anymore, so that should be a huge boost. You won't have much WW with Brennus if you haven't taken any cities. Just crank up the culture and keep going.

Thanks, that is very helpful information. At this point, Monty has only one city left, defended by a solitary rifleman. Unfortunately, it's really out of the way, so I declared peace with Brennus.

I guess I'll just have to move a couple of units into position, wait out the ten-turn peace agreement and then attack!

Complete and utter anilihation will stop their yearning to join the motherland!

 

[EmperorFool]

I guess I'll just have to move a couple of units into position, wait out the ten-turn peace agreement and then attack!

Remember that he'll probably still be Brennus's vassal, so make sure you're ready for the war with Brennus as well. Just make sure to check that Monty hasn't spawned a fishing village somewhere by checking if he has any cities for trade. All non-capital cities are listed in the trade screen, even if he won't trade them.

Then, do as you say, load up a death blow force on his doorstep, but also put your main invasion force on Brennus's borders and go to town!

I must confess that I often play with vassal states disabled for just this very reason.

 

[obsolete]

Time to time I see people posting about creating war weariness for the AI. However, I've never noticed war weariness having much if any effect at all on the AI. I have yet to see any evidence (screen shots) where war weariness is having an effect on the AI. I tend to find this only affects human players.

If someone can prove to me that WW does matter to the AI, I'd like to see.

 

[DarkSchneider]

Time to time I see people posting about creating war weariness for the AI. However, I've never noticed war weariness having much if any effect at all on the AI. I have yet to see any evidence (screen shots) where war weariness is having an effect on the AI. I tend to find this only affects human players.

If someone can prove to me that WW does matter to the AI, I'd like to see.

Well certainly, this will be an issue if the statue of Zeus in the new expansion ends up doing essentially nothing! My guess is that WW affects the computer, but they get bonuses on the higher difficulty levels to deal with it, much like they get bonuses for everything else.

 

[Welnic]

What is the biggest factor in causing WW? Capturing cities. I know when I go to war I usually capture cities, so I expect WW to build. On the other hand the AI doesn't capture a lot of my cities, and most of the fighting is done on their turf, so I wouldn't expect them to have much WW problems. Sometimes one AI will steamroller another one, but in that case the dominant AI is so much bigger that it can shrug off some WW.

 

[Naismith]

Time to time I see people posting about creating war weariness for the AI. However, I've never noticed war weariness having much if any effect at all on the AI. I have yet to see any evidence (screen shots) where war weariness is having an effect on the AI. I tend to find this only affects human players.

If someone can prove to me that WW does matter to the AI, I'd like to see.

I can't prove it, but I do remember playing a game on Prince a long time ago. I had bribed Ragnar to war against Elizabeth, and it had been going on for a long time. Ragnar had lost a couple of cities. We shared a religion, and were long time war allies, so he was Friendly with me. When I saw he was willing to sign a permanent alliance with me, I went for it. I think this may have been the only time I've done a permanent alliance.

If I remember correctly, I could see into his cities. The amount of war weariness he had accumulated was staggering. Multiple unhappy faces in every city. This is kind of a fuzzy memory, but I believe my cities were affected by his war weariness.

I think you're right in assuming that WW usually doesn't matter much to the AI.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

On Settler, you and the AI have equal WW. Every difficulty level higher you go from there gives the AI -10% WW. So WW is reduced for the AI, but not to the point where it doesn't matter at all.

For example, on Monarch, the level I always play at, the AI has their WW cut in half. On Noble, the "even ground" difficulty, they have 70% WW.