Thoughts on "Religious Strategy" in Isabella win

slobberinbear

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Excited having just won a (legit) Isabella Religious / Diplomatic victory on Emperor / Pangaea / Normal, and wanted to share some thoughts. Much of this is basic information but I'm including it for completeness' sake.

Early Religion at Monarch and above

Early religion is generally frowned upon by experienced players in favor of going for military and worker techs. At higher difficulty levels, going for an early religion is even more problematic due to the difficulty in beating the AI to the religion-granting tech and the delay in expansion caused by beelining religious techs.

To get a religion-granting tech first at Monarch+ difficulty, it is best if you start the game with Mysticism and have a commerce tile to work early (gold, gems, oasis, coast, seafood, lake, floodplain, etc.) It is also helpful to be Financial, to get an extra beaker early from the commerce tile you are working. Due to the AI's production advantages, you generally have a better shot at getting Polytheism/Hinduism than Meditation/Buddhism unless you have a superb commerce tile to work right away. And of course trying for Polytheism first has the additional benefit that if you miss Hinduism, you still have a shot at Judaism (by taking Masonry and Monotheism). I am not saying that Buddhism is impossible to get, just that you can find yourself losing the Meditation race fairly often, in which case you are now even further behind the AIs that were going for Hinduism and/or Judaism from the start.

Early religion is also going to be dictated by the opposition. If you draw a lot of warmongers, you have a much better shot at getting an early religion, since few of them start with Mysticism or are inclined to go for early religion. Of course, unless you set up a custom game and know your opposition, you won't know who the AIs are at this stage in the game.

Early religion is handy for several reasons. You deny it from the AI; you get free culture and happiness; you get free religious spread to cities without religion; you get an opportunity to build a holy shrine for culture, cash, and specialists; and it can give you major diplomatic benefits.

In my game, I founded Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam ... and missed Taoism and Confucianism by one turn each.

Religion-Spamming

A core feature of the classic Spain on a Lake game was the use of religion-spamming. The players managed to get all three early religions right out of the gate due to Madrid's superior commerce production and Isabella's starting techs. Their difficulty level was also fairly low (Noble) and the game's AI was different then. Still, it was a fun and impressive feat.

There are several benefits to religion-spamming: denial to the AI, and huge cultural, happiness, and potential cash boosts. It also sets up some interesting diplomatic situations, as your neighbors may each adopt a different religion based in your civilization. Being spiritual here is very helpful, so you can change your religions as needed for diplomatic reasons. The spam also presents the option of building multiple holy shrines for even more income.

Unlike the original SoaL game (played on Vanilla v. 1.0 and at Noble difficulty, IIRC), getting Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism is next to impossible at Monarch+ difficulty in BTS. Thus if you want to religion spam, you will probably have to use beelining, the Oracle, and lightbulbing to get three or more religions.
For example, you could get Hinduism early, beeline to Monotheism, build the Oracle and try to grab Theology/Christianity or Code of Laws/Confucianism, then use the Oracle Great Prophet to build a holy shrine or three. Remember that Divine Right/Islam flows from Theology, and that Philosophy/Taoism is just a short jump from Literature.

Realistically, founding more than 3 religions is very hard at higher difficulty levels. Putting the effort in to get Theology/Christianity, for instance, will likely preclude you from getting Philosophy/Taoism.

Lastly, as in the SOAL game, you may want to consider not adopting a state religion right away if you religion-spam, simply to keep your diplomatic powder dry. While you won't get the state religion happiness boost (and other religious civics boosts), you can still build (cheap Spiritual) temples for each religion. Once you have picked a neighbor or two you wish to remain friendly with, you can match your religion to theirs and commence your holy wars. Of course, not adopting a state religion deprives you of many of benefits of religious civics, which undercuts the power of a Spiritual leader swapping between civics.

In my game, I researched Polytheism and Monotheism manually (I had nearby marble, so getting early Masonry was easier to justify), Oracled Theology, and lightbulbed Divine Right. I adopted Judaism after my nearest neighbor (Sury) converted.

Religious Spread

A key benefit of early religion is free religious spread. Most cities without a religion will eventually get a religion. You can increase the chance of free spread by hooking up your cities to the trade network and owning a holy shrine. Once a city has a religion, no religion will spread there for free -- a missionary is required. Thus, the sooner you get a religion and get connected to other civs, the better chance that your religion can spread at no additional cost to you.

That said, if you are committed to a religious strategy, you must also commit to producing at least some missionaries. You should think of these units as mini-merchants and diplomats, for that is what they are. I credit my first RPC win as Sitting Bull to converting an AI civ to my religion, then using him as a war ally against our religious adversaries.

If you religion spammed, building missionaries for each religion is a serious undertaking requiring 1-2 cities dedicated to the task. Maintaining open borders and good diplomacy is key during this phase. You will also need a few great prophets to build holy shrines

In my game, I spread Judaism to my own cities and a few neighbors, but didn't go wild with it, mainly because I wanted to keep control of the AP and needed the hammers elsewhere.

Diplomatic Aspects of Religion

Sharing a religion is one of the best ways to make friends. The converse is also true. You should carefully select your state religion based on the religions of your neighbors. It's also worth researching Alphabet and using your spies to convert your neighbors to the religion of your choice if they won't convert diplomatically. This can be used both offensively and defensively, to make neighbors happy, break religious blocs, and create enemies for your religious furor.

Suppose you have two religions and two neighbors. You spread both to each neighbors, and all three of you are running the same state religion. Switch to the other religion, send a spy to convert a neighbor to the other religion, and now your neighbors will not like each other, and you can adopt the religion of whatever side you choose. Throw in an AP holy war for good measure.

This is another hidden benefit of early religion; you can spread it with easy Open Borders treaties in the early game, before your neighbors adopt Theocracy (and become immune to missionaries) or close borders with you.

In my game, I managed to have a buffer zone of friendly Jewish allies between me and my main adversary, Buddhist Hannibal. Using the AP, I was able to keep Carthage in check by having constant war against him from most or all of the other civs. I fact Hannibal and I only actually engaged in one battle before the game ended. This had the additional effect of giving me bonus diplomatic benefits from "shared war." Even though Hannibal had a bigger army (and one vassal), I still won the game due to my diplomatic relations.

Happiness & Cultural Aspects of Religion

Each religion in a city grants +1 culture if there is no state religion. Temples add +1 culture, monasteries +2, and cathedrals +50%. These are substantial benefits whether you are in a land-grab mode, trying to maintain your border integrity, or are pursuing a culture victory.

Having a state religion adds +1 happiness in a city. Temples add +1 (regardless of state religion) and cathedrals +2 (or +3 with certain resources).

Thus, optimal cultural generation involves having no state religion, while happiness is highest by having a state religion. Either way, a religious civilization will likely have large cultural powerhouse cities, limited only by health.

In my game, Isabella ended up with many large cities due to the Expansive trait's health bonuses and cheap buildings. This vertical growth in turn supported the economy and boosted production.

Religion and Wonderspamming

Many wonders indirectly benefit a religious strategy, particularly those that generate great prophets. Prophets are key for building holy shrines and provide a significant early game hammer and gold boost. Prophets are also handy for lightbulbing expensive techs like Theocracy and Divine Right. And once you get Divine Right, you would be surprised to learn that Prophets can be used to lightbulb a lot of non-religious handy technologies.

Good "religious" wonders include Stonehenge, the Temple of Artemis, the Oracle, Sistine Chapel, Anghkor Wat, Notre Dame, the Spiral Minaret, the University of Sankore, Chichen Itza, and of course the Apostolic Palace.

The Apostolic Palace, in particular, is the crown jewel of religious wonders and efforts should be made to secure it if possible in a religious game. Just remember that your religious-swapping ways may come to an end once the AP is built; you may be loathe to lose control of the AP by switching to another faith.

In my game, due to having marble, I built the Temple of Artemis, Oracle, Spiral Minaret, AP, and the Colossus (I had a nice coastal location on a Pagaea map with several island cities).

Optimal starting techs and traits for the Religious Strategy

Spiritual is the obvious first choice here. Cheap temples and no-anarchy civics and religion changes are very powerful in a religious strategy. You can successfully pursue a religious strategy with a non-Spiritual leader but it will be suboptimal.

Other good choices include Expansive (more health supports bigger cities with high religious happy caps; cheap granaries and workers), Charismatic (more happiness for bigger cities), Imperialistic (cheap settlers help offset slower early production), Philosophical (more prophets!), and of course Financial for obvious reasons.

The best starting techs are Mysticism and Fishing, which frequently allows you to work a 2-commerce tile on turn 1. Of course, if you start with gems, gold, silver, riverside Wine or other 2-commerce tile adjacent to your capital, that works too.

Thus, we have the following leaders optimized for a religious strategy:

  • Isabella (Spiritual/Expansive; Mysticism + Fishing paired with a lake/coastal start). Arguably, Isabella is the best for the strategy due to the ease of finding workable lake/coast tiles on turn 1. Expansive just makes her that much better to get out workers and grow her cities early.
  • Monty or Brennus (Spiritual/Aggressive or Charismatic; Mysticism + Hunting paired with a furs start)
  • Gandhi or Asoka (Spiritual/Philosophical or Organized; Mysticism + Mining)
  • Saladin (Spiritual/Protective; Mysticism + Wheel). Madrassa a bonus for early prophet generation.
  • Justinian (Spiritual/Imperialistic; Mysticism + Wheel).

These leaders can pursue a religious strategy effectively but are hampered by either not being Spiritual or not starting with Mysticism:

  • Ramesses or Hatty (Spiritual/Industrious or Creative; Agriculture + Wheel)
  • Mansa Musa (Spiritual/Financial; Mining + the Wheel)
  • Huayna Capac (Industrious/Financial; Mysticism + Agriculture)
  • Wang Kon (Financial/Protective; Mysticism + Mining)
  • Pacal (Financial/Expansive; Mysticism + Mining)

Opening Strategy

Assume you have a leader, civ, and start that are conducive to pursuing an early religion or three.

There are three key elements to the opening strategy:

1. Get an early religion
2. Expand your empire sufficiently
3. Defend yourself from barbarians

This all sounds basic, but in practice it is tricky at higher levels. If you spend too much timing chasing religious techs, you will be dead meat when the barbs arrive and the AI civs will expand right up to your border while you were neglecting worker techs and expanding.

Dealing with barbarians can be accomplished in several ways: (1) build military units (2) spawn-busting (3) the Great Wall. Due to tech considerations, spawn-busting with warriors is probably the best choice if you are pursuing the religious strategy. On some maps and starts, barbarians are virtually a non-issue.

In my game, I was on the coast on a Pangaea map. Land-based barbarians were irrelevant, but I did have to build a navy to deal with barb galleys. I eventually had four galleys and four triremes to deal with sea lane defense.

I also had an easier time in the expansion aspect of the game as most of my expansion was on islands; other than founding my second city, I was not competing with the AI for land for most of the game.

Lastly, I managed to worker-steal early on against Pacal, which greatly aided my early game development, freeing up Madrid to build workboats and harvest my seafood, which in turn boosted my religious research.
 
Early religion is generally frowned upon by experienced players in favor of going for military and worker techs. At higher difficulty levels, going for an early religion is even more problematic due to the difficulty in beating the AI to the religion-granting tech and the delay in expansion caused by beelining religious techs.

Not to mention the diplomatic problems; the AI is very willing to spend many hammers into missionaries, while you will very likely have a hard time to get other civilizations to adopt your religion.
 
Well, if you deny the religion from the AI, they have nothing to spread, and the diplomatic issues are thereby reduced. Your main opponent will be the holder of the "other" early religion.

Plus, if you are aggressive about connecting trade routes with neighbors, you can get a lot of free religious spread, before the AI has Monotheism/missionaries or Sailing for easy trade routes.

I'm just saying that the problem can be addressed if you are careful.
 
Being a random collection of counter claims and observations.

it is best if you start the game with Mysticism and have a commerce tile to work early (gold, gems, oasis, coast, seafood, lake, floodplain, etc.) It is also helpful to be Financial, to get an extra beaker early from the commerce tile you are working.

There's math for all of this - fundamentally, your ability to score an early religion is a function of two things (a) is anybody else pursuing the same tech and (b) can you beat them. The AI is researching at the Noble tech cost; therefore, if your handicap puts you a turn behind, then you are going to lose.

There are also some biases in how likely it is that the AI will go for Meditation or Polytheism out of the gate. More opposition means more competition. You may be able to tilt things in your favor by choosing the leader most likely to go after the tech you want.

Early religion is handy for several reasons. You deny it from the AI; you get free culture and happiness; you get free religious spread to cities without religion; you get an opportunity to build a holy shrine for culture, cash, and specialists; and it can give you major diplomatic benefits.

I think two ideas are being conflated here - there are advantages to having an early religion, and there are advantages to controlling the holy city, but they are separate.

I normally find that none of the religious advantages play out in the opening - grabbing an early religion is an investment you make toward the second phase of the game. This may be a matter of play style.

A core feature of the classic Spain on a Lake game

Presumably RB1: Cuban Isolationists, played at Prince level on Vanilla CiV (prior to the first patch).


Being spiritual here is very helpful, so you can change your religions as needed for diplomatic reasons.

More specifically, that you can temporarily change religions to score diplo points without taking a double anarchy hit.

Thus if you want to religion spam, you will probably have to use beelining, the Oracle, and lightbulbing to get three or more religions.

Or you could wait for a third/second religion to spread to one of your new cities.

Suppose you have two religions and two neighbors. You spread both to each neighbors, and all three of you are running the same state religion. Switch to the other religion, send a spy to convert a neighbor to the other religion, and now your neighbors will not like each other, and you can adopt the religion of whatever side you choose.

Probably a lot easier to share the religions unevenly here.

Thus, optimal cultural generation involves having no state religion, while happiness is highest by having a state religion.

This overlooks Shadegwon Paya and an early Free Religion burst.

The best starting techs are Mysticism paired with a tech that allows you to work a 2-commerce tile on turn 1, such as Fishing or Hunting

I don't understand the inclusion of Hunting, which does nothing for your research rate until you manage to build a camp - T20 or so unless you should happen to steal a VERY close worker. Which you aren't likely to manage with a Scout.
  • Ramesses or Hatty (Spiritual/Industrious or Creative; Agriculture + Wheel)
  • Saladin (Spiritual/Protective; Mysticism + the Wheel)

Also notable because their unique building allows them to run extra priests.

Due to tech considerations, spawn-busting with warriors is probably the best choice if you are pursuing the religious strategy.

Almost certainly true, as Workers are a lot less tempting when you have no good techs for them to work.

Lastly, I managed to worker-steal early on against Pacal, which greatly aided my early game development, freeing up Madrid to build workboats and harvest my seafood, which in turn boosted my religious research.

Warrior Rush? At Monarch+ you are facing archers, but it may still be worth considering.


Probably needs some discussion of map - there are important diplomatic considerations when putting all but one religion on this continent, for example, and how many opponents you can send a religion to pre-Astronomy.
 
Thanks for your comments.

I realized after posting this that you are correct re: Hunting; if you have furs in the BFC you can work them with or without hunting. So Fishing appears to be the only starting tech that gives you improved production from an unimproved tile.

You're also right about the map. Had I been on a continents or hemisphere map, no doubt the game would have played out much differently from a religious/diplo aspect as well as basic stuff like barbarians and expansion.

The larger point of my post was to show that a religion-focused strategy could succeed at Emperor level.
 
If you Oracle CoL, you can then bulb Philo with a GS on the same turn. I've done it as Korea and also Japan I think.
 
The Apostolic Palace, in particular, is the crown jewel of religious wonders and efforts should be made to secure it if possible in a religious game. Just remember that your religious-swapping ways may come to an end once the AP is built; you may be loathe to lose the hammer bonuses and control of the AP by switching to another faith.

You don't lose AP hammers if not running the AP religion. You may lose control of the AP, of course. (You won't lose control if nobody is a full member -- in that case, the civ owning it is the sole candidate and always wins the election. Not sure what happens otherwise.)

One advantage to founding lots of religions (and also being spiritual) is that you can found the AP in a minor religion. Then you spread that religion only to yourself. Of course then you cannot use the AP for fun diplomatic actions. But on the other hand, you get the bonus 4 hammers/city for 140 hammers invested (a whopping rate of return, for Civ anyway). And you deny that to all the AIs.
 
I'd like to see a demonstration game of this. Can you post one? I like playing izzy, and am pretty good with her, but I never go for early religions.
 
You don't lose AP hammers if not running the AP religion. You may lose control of the AP, of course. (You won't lose control if nobody is a full member -- in that case, the civ owning it is the sole candidate and always wins the election. Not sure what happens otherwise.)

One advantage to founding lots of religions (and also being spiritual) is that you can found the AP in a minor religion. Then you spread that religion only to yourself. Of course then you cannot use the AP for fun diplomatic actions. But on the other hand, you get the bonus 4 hammers/city for 140 hammers invested (a whopping rate of return, for Civ anyway). And you deny that to all the AIs.

Good point there; I'll correct the original post.
 
Never tried this on anything above noble. I have become brainwashed against religion (this site is run by athesist- jk) I think I scored all 7 before on warlord though and 5 of 7 on noble but I think I was playing a tiny board. It was a long time ago but I remember having to make a checklist to know which missionaries to produce and spending crazy production on them.
 
I've always been a fan of early religions. I find that shrine income can often keep me from falling too deep in that old overexpansion hole that comes before currency/CoL.

In terms of really leveraging religion as a strategy (not just grabbing an early religion and then playing a normal game otherwise), here are a few tips:

1) The AP is really the best thing for a religious strat. I never use it for a cheese win (ie build AP in my own minority religion, expand it and then let my vassal vote me an AP win). Instead, I like the AP in my dominant religion for the hammers. That means get the AP, pronto!
The fastest way to the AP is a theology bulb, which can be quite easy with the religion strat. A prophet will bulb theology once you have this group of techs:

Mystic/Meditation/Poly/Priesthood/Mining/Masonry/Mono/Writing

You will already be starting with Myst, probably hit Poly for your first religion, went for Priesthood for temples and the Oracle, and myst/poly/priest opened up writing and the potential for an Oracle->CoL shot. Just add Mining/Masonry/Mono to complete the package.

Also remember that grabbing theo and christianity first will reduce the tendency of AIs to go for it to grab their own religion, giving you more breathing room for building the AP.

2) Generating GPP. You will want lots of great prophets for bulbs and shrines. I tend to use my first to bulb theo, giving me another religion and getting started on building the AP. So I want a second GP soon to build my first shrine. That means A) building any available temple to allow priest specialists (greatly aided by a food-heavy capitol) and B) building early GPP producing wonders (see below).

3) GP wonders: The list of 'good religious' wonders is different from the list of 'GPP producing wonders'. For example, UoS gives science bonus for religious buildings, but generates GS points.
The GPP wonders (and their bonus resources) are:
Ankor Wat (stone)
AP
Ch Itza (stone)
Sw Paya (gold)
Stonehenge (stone)
Any Shrine
Oracle (marble)
Spiral Minaret (stone)

The first thing to note is that there is a really nice synergy between GPP wonders and religious techs: Myst -> Stonehenge, Priest -> Oracle, Theology -> AP, CoL -> Chich Itza, Phil -> Angkor Wat, DR -> Spiral minaret. This makes leveraging religion easy, by quickly building the GPP wonders that you open up with your focus on religious techs.

You can also see that stone is handy for a religion strat, but not necissarily for the early ones. Stonehenge should be chopped ASAP, it goes way before stone is hooked up. Oracle takes marble, but also tends to be a chopper. Remember to spam these GPP wonders in your main holy city (where you will be running max priest specialists) to keep your GP points concentrated. Stone also gives a bonus for UoS and Notre Dame, but remember to build them in a different city to avoid polluting your GP pool.

In my opinion, Huyana Capec (IND/FIN Myst/Ag) is really a strong leader for religion strat just for the wonder spam.

4) Early religion vs lots of religions: Between Oracle/CoL and bulbing theology and DR, I find that it is really easy to end up with multiple religions, so I tend to only go for one of the early ones. Poly/Hindu is my tech of choice, since I find the AIs prefer to go for Meditation. Not bogarting all the early religions also improves the possibility of not ending up with a one-religion love-fest on the other continent(s).

5) Wasting a bulb on Divine Right? Might sound like a stupid move, but remember that you will be continuing to generate lots of Great prophets and that until you get DR out of the way they will be useless for bulbing. DR gets you another religion and a shot at the spiral minaret for GPP, and is also great trade fodder. Once DR is out of the way, GPs will give you a shot at bulbing CS (very nice, remember to get math after CoL), then bulb along the Asth/Lit/Drama/Music line before switching to the paper/Ed/Lib line. My most common order in using Prophets is 1) bulb theology 2) Shrine major religion 3) bulb DR (requires monarchy) 4) Other shrines or useful bulbs. Only in late game will a aim for golden age, but I generally avoid early game golden ages anyways.

5) Open borders and missionaries. You want your religions to spread to increase shrine income and diplo opportunities. This starts with open borders (and sailing for coastal/river trade) but don't neglect monastaries and missionaries. Your first missionaries should be crossing borders, not spreading in your own lands. Let them play scout in friendly territory as well as bringing religion. Often once an AI accepts your religion he will missionary spam himself, so often one foreign missionary is all it takes.

Enough for now.
 
If you Oracle CoL, you can then bulb Philo with a GS on the same turn. I've done it as Korea and also Japan I think.

Having just completed a Spanish game I found the following true. I had three holy cities each giving me 20+ gold a turn from the shrines. All three holy cities were captured off the AI. Even so with one Ai marginalised and another destroyed it left me with Mansa and Germans all happy with me. I am guessing I could of passed the religion to the other 2 Ai off continent and converted them. Instead I went with rifles and the Spanish UU and destroyed or capitulated the world.

Overall going for the early religion slows down the economy. You cant tech the early land techs. Agriculture etc. Rushing a Ai holy shrine is much more efficient.

Personally I would of used a secondary religion to spread. You do still need to acheive the happiness levels to get the votes though.
 
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