Tibet for VP

[hokath]

Yes the Yak makes the mountain workable, and I think this sort of table specifically looks for unworkable tiles.
I wonder if it affects the Mountain Pantheon as well...

Edit: apparently this wasn't the problem

Unique City-States (@adan_eslavo expansion)

Wouldn't that make Tulou farmable for free citizens? Could make a check if Tulou was ever built on a given plot and not give a citizen if true. Also, how about making Unique Improvements granted by CSs valid for Ideology Tenets' bonus for UI? I have a bunch of Tulou and they are pretty weak in...

forums.civfanatics.com

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

I played my first game as the Tibet on immortal and i think this is one of the most over tuned civs i have ever played even on a mediocre start that did not have a lot of mountains; I like the kit a lot as a principle but going god of open sky into Revelation with prophecy and cathedrals and whatever second follower belief is ridiculous.
I found my self sinking in in gold (over 20K gold in the renaissance era).
The unique luxury is fine but spawning them on mountains with god of open sky creates some early super tiles.
The early faith is fine as well as the GG points, the unique GPTI is also ok but it's spam-able with the right beliefs.
Both UU are fine by me while the Dob-Dob is a little too strong especially since it does not need to be upgraded.
I enjoyed my game a lot although it was way too easy.
Edit: also one funny thing is the unique resource can be spawned on top of natural wonders since some of them are considered mountains

Spoiler :

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

The Dob-Dob does not seem to be able to interact with embarked missionaries whetherthe unit itself is on the city or embarked as well

 

[jarcast2]

For you save the game and close, go to MODS\Jarcast & Hokath's Tibet for VP (v 4)\Lua and replace with the attached lua file then reload the game. The edit is savegame compatible.

For the others the updated download is online.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

I tried two more games using the tibet going different strategies and beliefs both on Immortal and Deity and these are my two cents:
1- Absolutely enjoyable civ to play although it's a little bit overtuned, the kit is extremely synergistic and lends itself very well to achieve it's win condition.
2- the UA: It's like a kind of cheat to be honest as it has an extra unique component (Dzong, Dob-Dob, and Yak pasture); i enjoyed using all of them to be honest but starting with 3 Unique components against other civs with only two feels like cheating; an enjoyable kind of cheat but nonetheless cheating.
GG points from turn 0 is not as broken as it might look( you can get the CS quests for GG very early tho), however free faith is kind of nuts .... I found my self playing the ancient era exactly as if i was playing the Celt, go mining, rush pyramids and do not worry as you can catch up the pantheon race very easily as god of open sky is almost uncontested for such civ, even better than the mountain pantheon.
The other half of the UA is a little bit overlapping with the Inca, sure only workers and other civilians can climb mountains but they can also build roads there allowing military units to go on top of mountains.
Yak pasture generates more yields than a GPTI early on not even counting god of open sky bonus to it.
Dzong is extremely powerful for how early it can be obtained, it's just a couple barbarian camp quests away from getting a super tile with faith and culture in addition to it's defense bonus and tile expansion ability.

2- Dob-Dob: honestly if this was just a civilian unit that has no CS i would have still purchased it and stationed it in every single city; the production bonus from yield conversion can reach more than the yield of a manufactury during late medieval/early renaissance eras plus the ability to consume enemy missionaries is actually useful.

4th UC

3-Kumbum

A building purchasable with faith is always welcome especially in early medieval where the building queue is always full of "essential" buildings, better yields, gold to faith on purchase more thn makes up for it's cost.
On paper it comes later than the temple but realistically it's usually built in my cities before i usually manage to get normal temples online due to how this particular period of the game is full of other stuff beyter to do than build a temple for 3 faith per turn.


4- Rtakhrab Pai'dpung
A cataphract but purchasable with faith, basically a stomping machine even against the toughest units, the promotions are balanced imo although 3mp on knights are kind of restrictive but nonetheless a well balanced unit that still feels unique.


Overall i really enjoyed the modmod -although it could use a nerf or two and would still be fine- and i genuinely appreciate the time and effort put into it, amazing quality of work.

 

[hokath]

Yes I agree with the analysis that Dzong is kinda a 5th unique component.
It's evolved from "Prophets can build Citadels" to something that, because of the numerous ways to buff Holy Site yields, is a strong economic component.
The history of playtesting this mod is to basically nerf it over and over again. Perhaps the reason this has not been so successful is because while the components look reasonable on paper, there is effectively one-too-many of them...

 

[Amadhe]

Yes I agree with the analysis that Dzong is kinda a 5th unique component.
It's evolved from "Prophets can build Citadels" to something that, because of the numerous ways to buff Holy Site yields, is a strong economic component.
The history of playtesting this mod is to basically nerf it over and over again. Perhaps the reason this has not been so successful is because while the components look reasonable on paper, there is effectively one-too-many of them...

Tbh, I really like the Dzong and the Dob-Dob, but I'm personally not too attached to the Yak Pastures. Sure they're built on Mountains and give a Unique Luxury, but it doesn't really feel that great to me. Mostly because they are kinda just like a Pasture++ built on mountains. I do like the Yak Resource tho, so the following idea.

What if you removed the Yak Pasture Improvement and made the Dzong into a proper Unique Component that also spawned the Yak Resource.

Here is a possible implementation:

Dzong - Replaces both the Holy Site and the Citadel. The Dzong has the yields and properties of both Citadel and Holy Site and gains +2 Food if built adjacent to a Mountain. May be built by both Great Prophets and Great Generals. When built adjacent to a Mountain Tile, it spawns a Yak Resource nearby.

The Dzong described above also shouldn't be able to be built on Mountain Tiles, since in my (quite humble) opinion that's quite broken. Since it can't gain the +2 Food from being built on a mountain anymore, it instead gains +2 Food when built adjacent to a Mountain.

Alternatively, perhaps Dzongs could just provide a Yak Resource beneath their tile whenever they're built? This would be a much simpler implementation actually... I'm gonna leave the idea above since I spent quite a bit of time thinking that up, but this new idea has (in my eyes) the downside of still having Mountain Dzongs. Though the other idea has the benefit of Mountain Pastures for Tibet without giving them two unique improvements.

 

[AndreyK]

I'm confused about Dob-Dob, UA states that it converts 15% faith to production, civilopedia says 10%, but in my capital (my first and only Dob-Dob gives only 5%). When I look with IGE there is no dummy building Dob-Dob Garrison. I am still on previous version of VP - 4.6.1.

 

[jarcast2]

I'm confused about Dob-Dob, UA states that it converts 15% faith to production, civilopedia says 10%, but in my capital (my first and only Dob-Dob gives only 5%). When I look with IGE there is no dummy building Dob-Dob Garrison. I am still on previous version of VP - 4.6.1.

There's a typo: civilopedia says 10% but it is coded in sql as 15%.
When you move a Dob-Dob into (out of) a city, you have to wait 1 turn for the dummy building to be given (removed).

 

[AndreyK]

I think that Dob-Dob price should scale as CS of them scales.

 

[jarcast2]

I think that Dob-Dob price should scale as CS of them scales.

Unfortunately that is not possible unless adding more Dob-Dob units for each strength update, making the code quite janky.

 

[hokath]

Is the faith cost static or does it increase with Era like an Inquisitor does?

 

[AndreyK]

Is the faith cost static or does it increase with Era like an Inquisitor does?

static

 

[hokath]

I know there is a ProductionCostAddedPerEra column, but not sure about Faith cost (if it is hardcoded or a column)

 

[jarcast2]

Update online.

Soon-to-be-removed Improvement_AdjacentImprovementYieldChanges replaced with new table Improvement_YieldPerXAdjacentImprovement.

 

[Lumpyacidfish]

Hokath and I made the civ compatible with the religious victory mod.
Dzongs explicitly counts as Holy Sites for the purpose of reducing the religious dominance threshold.

does religious victory still work for the latest patch

 

[trinket]

Is the faith cost static or does it increase with Era like an Inquisitor does?

would it be possible to make Dob-Dob a unique Inquisitor instead? they pretty much fill the same counter-religion role already.

Here is a possible implementation:

Dzong - Replaces both the Holy Site and the Citadel. The Dzong has the yields and properties of both Citadel and Holy Site and gains +2 Food if built adjacent to a Mountain. May be built by both Great Prophets and Great Generals. When built adjacent to a Mountain Tile, it spawns a Yak Resource nearby.

+1 to this but imo Yak would be better as a food/culture focused bonus resource instead

 

[hokath]

iirc we avoided unique inquisitor because the AI didn't/wouldn't like it.
I can add it to my list to check.

Problem with Dzong spawning Yak on adjacent Mountain is also that AI will not understand this. Could make it require adjacent mountain but then you cant put citadels where you want to anymore.

 

[AndreyK]

I like this civ, but it's very OP. Yak gives a lot, also Dob-Dob faith price stays static, but his strength scales, and you have no worry about your army at all.
In Immortal I dominated the world by end of Industrial.