Time for a new spin-off?

[Commander Bello]

Thank goodness we have you around to point out these things.

It's been a pleasure serving you, Sir.

Please honour me by visiting again soon.

 

[GoGerbilGo!]

I find your position on this intriguing because I think actually modders need to do almost the exact opposite. Modders cannot simply ignore DLC. Suppose for example all the game-files needed to turn a DLC civ are included with the game but are "locked" by something like the exe. (At the moment I think this situation - having the content for DLC on everyone's machine - is the most likely scenario.) Modders who are not well versed in the details of what is DLC and what is not would need to take care not to accidentally release some of what is official DLC in a mod of their own.
It may not work exactly that way of course, but my point is that modders will at the very least need to be aware of what they can touch and what they can't.


This is one of the reasons I'm disliking the whole DLC proposal. It's just likely to turn out to be unfriendly to modders. Modders who do use official DLC for their designs will be disappointed to know their audience is limited more than the civ5 audience because not everyone will buy the DLC. Especially if lots of DLC is released, it will become very likely that hardly anyone will have most of the DLC and so modders have to make tough decisions about what to use. No doubt 2K and Valve will refuse to give us any idea of how much DLC is actually utilised so even modders will have no real idea what percentage of their audience are using a particular DLC.

Hello, PieceOfMind. With apologies, I am failing to quite grasp what it is you are saying here. Is your concern that the copy protection system will hamper modders' ability to create user generated content? Or is it that modders who use DLC material will find fewer users to share his mod with? If your concern is the latter, then I don't think you should be worrying. A modder who intentionally uses DLC material does so knowing that only a few can play his game. This situation is a bit akin to modmods. You can make Fall Further, but if few people have Fall From Heaven II, then few people will be able to try your mod. The principle is different, but similar. A modder who uses DLC need only state that such and such DLC is required to play his mod. He is completely aware that not everyone will be able to use his mod.

If your concern is the former, then no one here can reply to you intelligently at this time because we do not know how Firaxis will be implementing copy protection for their DLC yet. If the worst case scenario comes to pass such that the Civ modding community is unable to function well enough to be fun for users, then I guess this is where I'll be getting off the bus. It will have been a great ride, but I play the game only because the modding community is enthusiastic and talented and offers a great free service.

But I just don't think Firaxis is trying to kill the goose that lays their golden egg. If anything, I'm sure they are a little intimidated by the change of practice, too, if they are in any way aware of what is being said on these Civ-related boards. That's why we should wait and see.

 

[Commander Bello]

Hello, PieceOfMind. With apologies, I am failing to quite grasp what it is you are saying here. Is your concern that the copy protection system will hamper modders' ability to create user generated content? Or is it that modders who use DLC material will find fewer users to share his mod with? If your concern is the latter, then I don't think you should be worrying. A modder who intentionally uses DLC material does so knowing that only a few can play his game. This situation is a bit akin to modmods. You can make Fall Further, but if few people have Fall From Heaven II, then few people will be able to try your mod. The principle is different, but similar. A modder who uses DLC need only state that such and such DLC is required to play his mod. He is completely aware that not everyone will be able to use his mod.

You are aware of the fact that some people pick a given mod and add just this one functionality/item/feature they think is missing?

Well, with all kind of combinations of DLC present, they will have to carefully scan that initial mod about its contents and remove them manually, in case they by themselves would miss some of these DLC's.

Major hassle, if you ask me.

If your concern is the former, then no one here can reply to you intelligently at this time because we do not know how Firaxis will be implementing copy protection for their DLC yet. If the worst case scenario comes to pass such that the Civ modding community is unable to function well enough to be fun for users, then I guess this is where I'll be getting off the bus. It will have been a great ride, but I play the game only because the modding community is enthusiastic and talented and offers a great free service.

But I just don't think Firaxis is trying to kill the goose that lays their golden egg. If anything, I'm sure they are a little intimidated by the change of practice, too, if they are in any way aware of what is being said on these Civ-related boards. That's why we should wait and see.

Honestly, I think all these questions are so obvious that an answer should already be present.
Yet, it is not transferred to us, which in turn makes me think that there isn't a satisfying answer.
Draw you own conclusions.

 

[GoGerbilGo!]

You are aware of the fact that some people pick a given mod and add just this one functionality/item/feature they think is missing?

Well, with all kind of combinations of DLC present, they will have to carefully scan that initial mod about its contents and remove them manually, in case they by themselves would miss some of these DLC's.

Major hassle, if you ask me.

That may be the case. But since the DLC using modder will have publicized which DLC he has incorporated, it should not be difficult to figure out what is what. My impression is that Firaxis is cheap when it comes to making civ-specific unit art, giving only UUs a different art. With time, we should be able to figure out what these are.

Honestly, I think all these questions are so obvious that an answer should already be present.
Yet, it is not transferred to us, which in turn makes me think that there isn't a satisfying answer.
Draw you own conclusions.

!!?
Aren't you the one who grumbled to me that: "After the experiences of the last three months, I am not convinced that "open communication" is within 2K's interest?"

I now understand that I had misunderstood what you meant by that. You just can't help assuming that when Firaxis reveals its DLC system that we are going to learn that it is absurdly byzantine for modders. Well, it may be just that. But Firaxis is not such a big outfit that it can ignore a significant backlash from the likes of us. If the worst case scenario occurs, what we should do collectively is kick off the great bit@h off. That may have a positive effect.

But I am reserving judgement for now.

 

[Commander Bello]

That may be the case. But since the DLC using modder will have publicized which DLC he has incorporated, it should not be difficult to figure out what is what. My impression is that Firaxis is cheap when it comes to making civ-specific unit art, giving only UUs a different art. With time, we should be able to figure out what these are.

And the sound effects.
And what if the initial modder had just made use of a UU's animation to create another unit for a different civilization?

There would be lots of trapdoors, I think,

Aren't you the one who grumbled to me that: "After the experiences of the last three months, I am not convinced that "open communication" is within 2K's interest?"

I never ever grumble!!!!



(There's quite a chance it might have been me... )