Time to retire "Tall vs Wide" for "Peace vs War"?

[Archon_Wing]

Under mods, yes, but not in BTS vanilla. Some AI would pick a specific routine to pursue culture.

That in itself is still better than what we have here. Though I agree it is a matter with Brute forcing via bonuses, Civ 6's AIs have even more bonus and can't even win any kind of victory even on Deity with consistency by turn 300.

Throwing denouncements/wars around based on these agendas causes significantly different conflicts than what you would see if each nation was trying to optimize its own winning chance, even if the would-be optimization isn't done particularly well.

Well, I mean some agendas are pretty sensible in most situations. Such as Cleopatra focusing on army and targeting those with small armies or Trajan targeting those people with less land, or Aztec targeting people with luxuries they want. I mean you could argue they should do that anyways, but I don't think it's inherently a bad thing. It's only when the agenda makes little sense in context that it becomes a problem.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Well, I mean some agendas are pretty sensible in most situations.

Yes, some are. Plenty are not however, especially if you include context also. I don't think the devs left such a large whole in the "are nots" by accident...somehow mistakenly believing all of them push towards a victory .

 

[Archon_Wing]

Yes, some are. Plenty are not however, especially if you include context also. I don't think the devs left such a large whole in the "are nots" by accident...somehow mistakenly believing all of them push towards a victory .

Yea, that's why you get some AIs that are always at the bottom of the barrel like Victoria who pretty much game throws out of the gate.

Then again, I don't see those 2-3 city peacevassal bait Ais at least like 4 did.

 

[Babri]

That's a small list I cannot rationalize much against peace benefits - you are scraping the barrel.

The simple fact is
You create units to defend yourself or you are dead... do you just leave those units hanging around doing nothing? Its just efficient to create war

Additional Mechanics that Benefit War
Being able to abuse city flipping
More chance of successful military emergencies (even if against you)
More eureka's and inspirations through conquering cities.
More Amenities
Higher score
Gaining districts for free when you conquer them
Loads from pillaging... (pillage an early holy site with a scout for a free pantheon)
More population = more science and culture but its spread out more so does not cost so many amenities.
More wonders
Loads of gold from peace deals that only last 10 turns.
Easier to win any victory condition.

Forcing yourself not to war is stupid and unnatural. I feel there is a middle ground... war until medi

That is a very good point. I think war is just too cheap as of right now in civ 6. Creating any army for invading another country should be far more costly to create & maintain than creating a force for defensive purposes. Primarily due to logistics as well as more professional troops that are needed for assaulting cities. Also occupying cities is often an expensive task.

I think a very straight forward solution would be to add gold maintenence to occupied cities as well as increase unit maintenance if they are in hostile territory.

Also make forts easier to build & stronger. Maybe have multiple types of forts like castles in medieval era, star forts in renaissance with far more powerful bonuses but a moderate maintenance cost.

Another option could be to allow players to reduce army maintenance in exchange for loosing something like75HP of the unit. This could allow larger standing armies for even smaller kingdoms which would deter conquerors.

In short make offensive wars tad more expensive & give defenders more tools to deal with invasions.