TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
You know me... I can never resist an easy target 
Ted
Ted
TJ01: Famous Five
- Thread starter TedJackson
- Start date
What can I say: I can't read instructions... I only write them. 
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
As promised, here are the starts.
I cannot believe how long this took. I used the Editor to generate maps for general form & shape then went through about twenty starts to get these four.
I think they have enough in common yet are different enough to choose between. So here they are:
Start A
Start B
Start C
Start D
Vote for your favourite.
Ted
I cannot believe how long this took. I used the Editor to generate maps for general form & shape then went through about twenty starts to get these four.
I think they have enough in common yet are different enough to choose between. So here they are:
Start A
Start B
Start C
Start D
Vote for your favourite.
Ted
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
B is a McDonald's start (endless food, no resources), and easy to eliminate. C is nice, especially since the rump of a second elephant can be discerned, but I don't think it can compete with two cows. In an ordinary game I'd prefer D to A, because two good city sites can already be seen (just NW of the settler, and on the eastern hill). But if we take the view that overlap between cities is unacceptable in a 5CC, this argument doesn't apply. The single best site on offer is probably one tile SW of the settler in A.
Hmmm, I agree A and D look the best. On both of them there's coast visible. There's no way to know, but A looks like fresh water where in D it might be salty. Which is interesting since we need at least 1 city to be on the sea.
edit: to prevent any comments
I should make clear that if forced I would choose A too, for its bigger early growth potential.
edit: to prevent any comments
I should make clear that if forced I would choose A too, for its bigger early growth potential.
- Joined
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- 5,242
I vote A or C. I believe A is much better than D because it has hills, gold and a BG visible. Later in the game it will have a high shield and commerce output and will have enough food to comfortably support a pop of 26 or more.
The mountains in D will reduce the POP limit later in the game.
I also have a sneaking liking for C. The game/wheat combination is powerful and there is a lux we won't need to colonise. We can use forrestry to control shield output. So irrigate the Game and mine the wheat for a 4 turn settler factory, then mine the game after four settlers have been made, (and eventually re-forrest it).
A is better though. More river tiles and 2 cows. Gotta go with that.
The mountains in D will reduce the POP limit later in the game.
I also have a sneaking liking for C. The game/wheat combination is powerful and there is a lux we won't need to colonise. We can use forrestry to control shield output. So irrigate the Game and mine the wheat for a 4 turn settler factory, then mine the game after four settlers have been made, (and eventually re-forrest it).
A is better though. More river tiles and 2 cows. Gotta go with that.
My vote is also A. But I dont know whats your problem with B. If one location can support micromanaging its B that can get almost all combinations of food and shields. Theres also a lot of riverbanks. I agree that the settler needs to be moved to get the golden hill and move away from potential salt water tile.
So its A, then B.
So its A, then B.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
I wasn't expecting you all to be so consistent
Start A it is.
I'll update the first post later today and post the save Sunday night/Monday morning unless people want to start sooner.
Ted
Start A it is.
I'll update the first post later today and post the save Sunday night/Monday morning unless people want to start sooner.
Ted
T-hawk
Transcend
Don't move for the gold hill. You won't use the gold hill until well into the middle ages, and another city will likely pick it up long before then. One salt water tile won't kill a city either; you won't even use it until 1600 AD. The starting spot is just fine; it has food bonuses for fast early growth and four hills (there's another one beyond the NE hill) which is just as many as you get by moving.
The starting spot is just fine; it has food bonuses for fast early growth and four hills (there's another one beyond the NE hill) which is just as many as you get by moving.
Just popped in to say A would have been my vote too (if we're playing Regent we need not be maniac about luxuries -yet).
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
I was just being Democratic Karasu
Four out of Six having voted for A. A it was
Ted
Four out of Six having voted for A. A it was
Ted
Of course. I added my vote just for the record
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
So, first question: where to put the first city... stay put or move to SW.
Staying put has the following
pro's
- Palace is built one turn earlier
- 2 cows in the first 9 tiles
con's
- possible 1 salt water tile
- miss the gold hill
I think the pro's outweigh the con's.
4000BC - turn 1
Let's move the worker to the grassy cow first before deciding.
That reveals more grass and a forest, no reason to move.
I found our capital on the spot. That reveals the coast is a small lake and there's one more cow on plains! Start building a worker.
Now for the research options (we have ), we are in this world with the
Persians: they start with Masonry, Bronze Working
Germans: Bronze Working, Warrior code
French: Alphabet, Masonry
Cathegians: Alphabet, Masonry
Spanish: Alphabet, Ceremonial Burial
Russians: Bronze Working, Pottery
English: Alphabet, Pottery.
Do we as group consider this knowledge an exploit? If so, I'm sorry.
Normally I would start with Pottery for growth but maybe here the Wheel is a better choice, start researching it on 20%.
3950BC - turn 2
Worker starts irrigating the cow.
3900 till 3750BC - turn 3, 4, 5 and 6
Our first Warrior is ready, start another. Worker starts roading the tile.
Now where to send the Warrior? The minimap shows we're in the east, so west seems good, the hills will provide a better view too.
3700BC - turn 7
Our capital has grown to size 2. The warrior reveals lots of mountains. No luxes yet.
3650BC - turn 8
Our Warrior reveals a better spot in the north east, with a river and wheat.
3600BC - turn 9
Our second warrior is ready, start one more. This warrior moves south, revealing jungle.
The worker moves to the plains cow, this reveals Incense in the hills.
3550BC - turn 10
Worker starts irrigating the cow.
3500BC - turn 11
Our capital has its first cultural expansion, it looks like we have some good lands in the east.
More mountains in the west, more jungle in the south.
3450BC - turn 12
Our third warrior is born, start one other.
Our capital grows again, now making 6 spt!
The new warrior goes east, adjust the slider to (7.1.2), making 3gpt.
There are Gems in the southern jungle!
There's sea in the Northwest.
3400BC - turn 13
More Incense in the southeast.
3350BC - turn 14
The worker starts a road. The warrior in the Northeast finds floodplains.
The new warrior goes east, start Rax. No temple yet because we want the cities to grow in an even tempo. Maybe this is
, but its the choice I made.
3300BC - turn 15
MM for more gold. Too bad the cows are not on the river tiles.
3250BC - turn 16
There seems to be coast in the east as well.
3200BC - turn 17
Our city grows again, the slider goes to (6.1.3).
The Rax is ready, finally start settler.
The southern warrior reveal a light blue (spanish?) border, actually quite near.
3150BC - turn 18
The eastern sea would make a good spot for the second city, near 5 bonus grasses.
3100BC - turn 19
Meet Spain. Isabella has 1 size 2 city and knows Bronze working and Alphabet, but lack Warrior Code. She won't part with Alphabet, but we can buy Bronze Working (Colossus) for WC and 17g. I make the deal.
IT
Isabella wants us to leave her turf, ok.
3050BC - turn 20
Bust some more fog.
3000BC - turn 21 (Just to even out the years, you see
)
Madrid is now size 1. I bet it was building a settler all the time and just grown to 3 and produced it!
the future:
We really need a second city to pay for the troops. Looking back I maybe should have constructed the Rax earlier, since we'll have manage our military carefully, having only the most modern best trained troops. All the current warriors are reg, so unless they can be trained, they will have to be abandoned, which is a waste and a shame, I've grown quite fond of them already.
The land:
The save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/TJ01-3000BC.SAV
Staying put has the following
pro's
- Palace is built one turn earlier
- 2 cows in the first 9 tiles
con's
- possible 1 salt water tile
- miss the gold hill
I think the pro's outweigh the con's.
4000BC - turn 1
Let's move the worker to the grassy cow first before deciding.
That reveals more grass and a forest, no reason to move.
I found our capital on the spot. That reveals the coast is a small lake and there's one more cow on plains! Start building a worker.
Now for the research options (we have ), we are in this world with the
Persians: they start with Masonry, Bronze Working
Germans: Bronze Working, Warrior code
French: Alphabet, Masonry
Cathegians: Alphabet, Masonry
Spanish: Alphabet, Ceremonial Burial
Russians: Bronze Working, Pottery
English: Alphabet, Pottery.
Do we as group consider this knowledge an exploit? If so, I'm sorry.
Normally I would start with Pottery for growth but maybe here the Wheel is a better choice, start researching it on 20%.
3950BC - turn 2
Worker starts irrigating the cow.
3900 till 3750BC - turn 3, 4, 5 and 6
Our first Warrior is ready, start another. Worker starts roading the tile.
Now where to send the Warrior? The minimap shows we're in the east, so west seems good, the hills will provide a better view too.
3700BC - turn 7
Our capital has grown to size 2. The warrior reveals lots of mountains. No luxes yet.
3650BC - turn 8
Our Warrior reveals a better spot in the north east, with a river and wheat.
3600BC - turn 9
Our second warrior is ready, start one more. This warrior moves south, revealing jungle.
The worker moves to the plains cow, this reveals Incense in the hills.
3550BC - turn 10
Worker starts irrigating the cow.
3500BC - turn 11
Our capital has its first cultural expansion, it looks like we have some good lands in the east.
More mountains in the west, more jungle in the south.
3450BC - turn 12
Our third warrior is born, start one other.
Our capital grows again, now making 6 spt!
The new warrior goes east, adjust the slider to (7.1.2), making 3gpt.
There are Gems in the southern jungle!
There's sea in the Northwest.
3400BC - turn 13
More Incense in the southeast.
3350BC - turn 14
The worker starts a road. The warrior in the Northeast finds floodplains.
The new warrior goes east, start Rax. No temple yet because we want the cities to grow in an even tempo. Maybe this is
, but its the choice I made.3300BC - turn 15
MM for more gold. Too bad the cows are not on the river tiles.
3250BC - turn 16
There seems to be coast in the east as well.
3200BC - turn 17
Our city grows again, the slider goes to (6.1.3).
The Rax is ready, finally start settler.
The southern warrior reveal a light blue (spanish?) border, actually quite near.
3150BC - turn 18
The eastern sea would make a good spot for the second city, near 5 bonus grasses.
3100BC - turn 19
Meet Spain. Isabella has 1 size 2 city and knows Bronze working and Alphabet, but lack Warrior Code. She won't part with Alphabet, but we can buy Bronze Working (Colossus) for WC and 17g. I make the deal.
IT
Isabella wants us to leave her turf, ok.
3050BC - turn 20
Bust some more fog.
3000BC - turn 21 (Just to even out the years, you see
)Madrid is now size 1. I bet it was building a settler all the time and just grown to 3 and produced it!
the future:
We really need a second city to pay for the troops. Looking back I maybe should have constructed the Rax earlier, since we'll have manage our military carefully, having only the most modern best trained troops. All the current warriors are reg, so unless they can be trained, they will have to be abandoned, which is a waste and a shame, I've grown quite fond of them already.
The land:
The save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/TJ01-3000BC.SAV
How about all of us look and see which city spots we like?
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Good start Space 
Might I suggest 1NW of the Northern mountain as our coastal city site - 2 Cows, 2 hills (one with Incense) and a mountain.
Karasu is UP!
Ted
Might I suggest 1NW of the Northern mountain as our coastal city site - 2 Cows, 2 hills (one with Incense) and a mountain.
Karasu is UP!
Ted
Yes, that's a good spot. This is what I was thinking:
And we should claim the gems, there's probably good land under that jungle. But it'll take awhile before it's productive. On the other hand we should try to prevent Spain claiming it, a colony disappears when an AI settles close to it.
edit: sorry for not resizing the image.
And we should claim the gems, there's probably good land under that jungle. But it'll take awhile before it's productive. On the other hand we should try to prevent Spain claiming it, a colony disappears when an AI settles close to it.
edit: sorry for not resizing the image.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
I think the Eastern site should be 1 SW of it's present location (move to the hill). We pull in 2 extra BG that way.
South of the Gems might pay off long term, it depends on whether or not it's all jungle under the FoW.
Ted
South of the Gems might pay off long term, it depends on whether or not it's all jungle under the FoW.
Ted
Northern Pike
Deity
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Fine work, Space. 
Space mentions that "we want the cities to grow in an even tempo" culturally. Now, the rest of you have played games of this sort before and I haven't, so I'm not going to disagree too forcefully. But is this necessarily true? We'll have much more freedom to stuff all the later Wonders into our fourth and fifth cities, which may be necessary, if our early cities build up powerful cultural positions as quickly as possible.
To put that more generally, our goal here is so difficult that I doubt we can afford the luxury of having all five cities advance towards 20K in lockstep. We'll probably have to accept, and manage, different cultural growth curves in different cities.
Space mentions that "we want the cities to grow in an even tempo" culturally. Now, the rest of you have played games of this sort before and I haven't, so I'm not going to disagree too forcefully. But is this necessarily true? We'll have much more freedom to stuff all the later Wonders into our fourth and fifth cities, which may be necessary, if our early cities build up powerful cultural positions as quickly as possible.
To put that more generally, our goal here is so difficult that I doubt we can afford the luxury of having all five cities advance towards 20K in lockstep. We'll probably have to accept, and manage, different cultural growth curves in different cities.
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
A slightly different sitemap, and some thoughts:
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