TJ01: Famous Five

[Northern Pike]

Good work so far, Space and Karasu.

Ted? Baxter? Mr. Jones? Well, we're never going to have many soldiers playing this variant, so I suppose we might as well treat them as individuals.

Naming all our cities "X Famous" is likely to create confusion--did we learn nothing from the Izmit/Iznik fiasco? Let's call them First Famous, Second Sight, Third Person, Fourth Horseman, and Fifth Wheel.

On reflection, I think our northeastern city should be founded on the grassland tile one NW of my site 3 (or one SW of Space's red dot). It's probably worth sacrificing one BG to get a second coastal city, and (less importantly) to avoid any overlap with site 4.

If we're going to give First Famous a break before it produces its next settler, I'd rather see it build its temple than more warriors.

 

[Karasu]

Be strong, space.
I have been thinking about the eastern cities. It may be good to found 3 on the coastal hill site (i.e., to space's original suggestion), since:
- with border expansion it will get two more incense that may have some trading value (if we ever spend some time at peace with someone)
- it may not be bad to have two coastal cities. As MB said, having to build both Colossus and Lighthouse in the same city may be too much of a constraint. Plus, we will want to build some boats sooner or later.

Of course, that will mean loosing some BG. But I think the trade-off is worth considering.

Other than that, I would build the last two cities as soon as possible. With all those hills and mountains, I wouldn't be surprised to see Iron within our borders or not too far away.

EDIT: Hi, NP. We cross-posted, it seems...

 

[TedJackson]

I've got my fingers crossed


Ted

 

[Northern Pike]

So we agree that city 3 should be coastal. The second cultural expansion will take in the incense even if we choose the site I now prefer, and we probably won't need it for trade any earlier than that.

 

[a space oddity]

Originally posted by Northern Pike
Ted? Baxter? Mr. Jones?

I lacked one to put you all in, sorry to leave you out. But I guess I'll get another chance to make it up to you before this game is over.

 

[Yndy]

I’m not sure we need two coastal cities. It’s not going to be easy to build the Colossus and the Lighthouse in the same city but building all the Ancient Age Wonders seems tough enough anyway with seven wonders in five cities.

This is the my current suggestion:

Second: Colossus + Lighthouse = 500 shields; 5cpt
Third: Pyramids = 400 shields; 4cpt
Fourth: Oracle + Great Wall = 500 shields; 6cpt
Fifth: Great Library = 400 shields; 6 cpt
First (backup): Hanging Gardens = 300 shields; 4 cpt

First is used as some kind of back-up, it already has some culture from the Palace, will get the earliest temple, but if we’re in danger of losing a wonder it will probably be the city to complete it fastest.

Of course temples are a priority right now and that the Great Wall will be timed to trigger the Golden Age.

 

[Karasu]

Yndy, I agree with your point on building 'coastal wonders'.

I was actually thinking more of galleys: there will come a time when we want to build some ships and land a few units on another continent.
If we have a single coastal city, and she's busy with a wonder, we may have to wait quite some time.

Other than that, I think your plan looks good.

 

[TedJackson]

Good point Karasu,

I vote for the 2nd coastal city.


Ted

 

[Yndy]

OK, here goes. Rename cities to First Attempt and Second Minute. Some better names would be appropriate.

2510BC 1A: Warrior -> Settler;
2470BC 2M: Worker -> Worker
2430BC 1A grows to size 4
2390BC ThreeCows founded: Temple *sorry for the lack of inspiration*. German border spotted.
2350BC 1A: Settler -> Warrior; Incense hooked. Settler sent towards city four. I'm not sure that we want to give 2 Bonus grasslands for 2 Incense hills. Do we?
2310BC Meet Germany. They already have IW but lack CB. We don't make the trade.
2270BC 1A: Warrior -> Temple;
2230BC 2M: Worker -> Temple;
2190BC Four Corners founded: Temple
2150BC Nothing. I tried to MM 1A to get one extra commerce as it grows anyway.
Famous Four for now

 

[Karasu]

Good play.
It's good that Germany is there too -I was a bit worried that Spain would not be able to entertain us...

 

[Northern Pike]

Got it, hope to post in about 24 hours.

 

[Karasu]

Does this "hope to" mean that you didn't manage to avoid being up in 7 SGs at the same time?

 

[Northern Pike]

Well, my games are in synch to a regrettable degree, but let's not throw around numbers like seven. That pinnacle is reserved for mad-bax alone.

 

[TedJackson]

I seem to be suffering the same thing


Ted

 

[Karasu]

Since we got into the topic, I have been noting a strange, mindless force acting in my SGs too.

It started happening in a suspiciously consistent fashion, that people get skipped, busy or suddenly overefficient with their turns with the result that I am left with three to four saves to play between Friday night and Saturday morning...

 

[Northern Pike]

We've just (2030 BC) discovered the Wheel, after earlier getting Iron Working and Alphabet in trades. (Our continent is full of iron and horses, no problems here.) Some discussion of our next tech target seems desirable.

The basic problem is that we can't make the deity-level assumption that our neighbours will do our research for us, especially since the Germans are already well off the pace. So, what tech do we want to be certain of having in forty turns? Mysticism, since (according to mad-bax) the Oracle tends to be the first Wonder to go? Masonry, since industrious civs can work on the Pyramids from the beginning of the game? Writing, on grounds of general importance?

I incline towards Mysticism, but very slightly; I really don't know. Those of you who roll out of bed around this time and immediately log on to CFC are welcome to let me know what you think.

 

[a space oddity]

Originally posted by Northern Pike
Those of you who roll out of bed around this time and immediately log on to CFC ...

How well you know us (or me anyway)... is it that obvious?

Tough call on the tech. Maybe we should let the cultural value of the associated wonder be the deciding factor. I have to wake up a little more before I can give a coherent opinion.

 

[Karasu]

Yawns, tries invain to open his eyes...
Doesn't need them to log on CFC anyway

In our situation, I'd prefer a wonder-enabling tech rather than Writing.
Based on our renown skill in managing prebuilds, I would go for the tech we can get to in the shortest time (assuming we are not forced to 40-turns research).
If we can't run "max" science, then Mysticism is probably better, as there will be a chance to trade it for Masonry later on.

Gives up trying to open his eyes and falls asleep on his desk. It's Friday, after all...

 

[TedJackson]

I would chooes Writing or Mysticism on the basis that we'll, hopefully, be able pick up Masonry in the trading.

In a normal game I'd choose Writing almost every time but this is a slightly different situation.

Looking at the tech tree I realise why I normally choose Writing. It opens up both Literature & Map Making

Our problem would seem to be that we need more contacts to trade techs so I'll stick with Writing.


Ted

 

[Northern Pike]

2150 (0): There are various tech trades we can make; the question is how to do it while speeding up the overall tech rate as little as possible. I decide to try to get Iron Working and Alphabet in a way which denies the Germans any new techs, since they're a scientific civ. We'll have to accept the transfer of one tech to the Spanish for the sake of the twofer. So, we buy Iron Working from the Germans for 143 gold and 8 gpt, paying 81 gold more than would have been necessary had we included Ceremonial Burial. We then send Iron Working to the Spanish for Alphabet and 27 gold.

Four sources of iron appear. The only one already under our control is right beneath Four Corners, which is rather a waste, though no one's fault.


2110 (1): First Attempt temple --> settler.


2070 (2): We discover the Wheel. Seven horses appear, three of which will be within our city radii and one more of which will be within our cultural boundaries. I re-name Four Corners Fourth Horseman.


2030 (3): I choose Mysticism as our next tech target, since it seems to be everyone's first or second choice. I take Ted's point about Writing as the gateway to Map Making and Literature; but since this is a game at regent, our demanding victory condition aside, I hope we won't have to beeline to these techs to get the GL and the GL. Also, given that we don't have Masonry and the palace prebuild yet, I don't like the idea of a choice that would give us neither a new Wonder to build nor a good prebuild.


1990 (4): Not much.


1950 (5): First Attempt settler --> warrior.


1910 (6): Three Cows temple --> Colossus.


1870 (7): First Attempt warrior --> worker.


1830 (8): Zzzz....


1790 (9): I found Fifth Wheel on the agreed site in the east, and it begins its temple.

First Attempt worker --> spearman, strictly as a Gallic Swordsman prebuild.

Second Minute temple --> worker.


1750 (10): Barring some really odd geographical quirk, we're alone on our continent with the Germans and the Spanish.

The Germans still don't have Ceremonial Burial or Alphabet, so we could pick up some cash from them if it seems acceptable (or even desirable?) to help them out technologically. Using the gold we could acquire this way to fund more radical deficit research than we're already doing might well be the right idea.

To repeat, the spearman under construction in First Attempt is a GS prebuild.

If one of our neighbours doesn't produce Masonry shortly, our lack of this and hence of the palace prebuild will become a real inconvenience.