TJS1 -- Going on the Pill-age

[Lanzelot]

@Speedbird:

• Why do you want the GLib?? We are the tech leader! And the AI is extremely slow in this game, we definitely don't want to wait for them to discover Invention... The game should be over long before that...
• We don't need iron, and we can reach most of our rivals very quickly via ship-chains.
• None of the UUs will cause any trouble: the Dutch don't have iron, so can't build their Swiss Mercs, by the time any of these small Russian towns has completed Zeus, we are ready to take it over and use for our own purpose, Arabia will also be destroyed before they get to Chivalry, and the Numidean Mercs are just like Pikes: no match for a Berzerk...
• Yes, we had a slightly bad start position, but with Republic monopoly and the first irrigations getting online, we are already leaving the AI behind in the dust...
• We have not "traded away" several technologies, we gained almost 10 technologies for free. The AI is still backward: most of them are still 5-6 techs behind. (And they don't look to be in the shape that they would be able to catch up any time soon... My estimate is that we eliminate most of them, before they even get Pikes! Not to mention Muskets...) Only "slight" problem might be the Carthagenians, which are only 2 techs behind. But they are currently being slowed down by their war against Arabia. And we can always skip them and take the necessary territory from some other rival, e.g. the Aztecs or Ottomans.
• "Two of our rivals are scientific". That's wrong: Russia, Ottomans and Byzantines makes three. But I don't understand, what this has to do with your claim that little is going according to plan?!
• It will still take ages, before all AIs have contact to each other. And even then it's not a problem: what should they trade among each other, if they have nothing to trade... Even the Osmans and the Aztecs don't know each other yet, and they are on the same continent...! And Russia and Arabia don't know each other yet, even though they are next-door neighbors! And Byzanz is completely isolated and knows no-one except us!
• "Someone will build the Great Library, then ALL of our rivals will have pikemen and knights" -- Don't understand this at all. Only one nation benefits from the GLib, not ALL. At the moment no one has iron except for the Ottomans. And I do think we can eliminate most of them, before they even get Feudalism. This is only Emperor, not Sid...
• "At least 3 of our continental rivals have a culture advantage, making it difficult to keep conquered cities" Nonsense. I bet we won't see a single flip in this game. (This is only Emperor, not Sid...) We will soon have 2-3 Libs and a wonder online, and if we choose Artemis, culture won't be any problem whatsoever. (We could even opt for a quick'n'dirty 100K win here.)

So all in all, I would say that considering our bad start position, the plan is progressing nicely here. We have everything under control.

I don't know what SirPleb's game has to do with this game here? That was a Gallic Swordsman based rush -- completely different strategy from the Berzerk based one. Also the "window" for the Gallic (attack 3) is much smaller than the "window" for the Berzerk (attack 6 and immune to counter-attack). I don't think that any of the strategies applied by SirPleb in GOTM18 applies to the game at hand. Especially not setting science to 0 and using the GLib... We could wait forever for the AI to do the research for us...

Regarding phony wars: we already have a war going on between Arabia and Carthago, which plays very well into our hands. We can start a war between Arabia and Netherlands, if we want to. (But it won't be necessary at the moment.) And due to the slow AI-to-AI contacts in this game, this is about all we can do in the moment. I, as well, would love to see a war between Aztecs and Osmans, but what can we do, if these slow-pokes haven't met each other yet?
And by the way: are you sure that SirPleb in his GOTM18 already had "lots of phony wars with distant enemies & recruiting allies to fight them" at this early point in the game (850 BC)? In any case, we are definitely going to do that as well, as soon as it becomes possible.

Aqueducts will be needed short- and mid-term in 5 of our core towns. So it's not only Copenhagen that'll benefit.

Anyway: I would say, that none of your fears is actually justified. (Have you been playing too many Deity/Sid games lately?) We are doing fine and have the game completely under conrol.

That is 4-5 cities devoted to settlers + workers & the rest can do military + galleys.

Take a look at the map: there is only space for like 10 more towns. And the AI will settle some towns for us as well. Our 1 settler factory and 1 worker factory is sufficient.

I don't like the T of A because the temples disappear with education

We will never research Education in this game. What for?

The Knights Templar.
To fill armies when we get leaders.
Because we have no iron, we can't make knight armies.
Because berserker armies lose their amphibious capability

• We will never research Chivalry. (What for?) And even if we would, we should use our SGL now, to get the most benefit from it, and not let it sit idle for several centuries... (If we really wanted the Knights Templar, we could better get it with a prebuild by then.)
• Berzerker Armies are much better than Templar Armies.
• Berzerker Armies are amphibious!

 

[Lanzelot]

Here is a little calculation that shows, just how powerful Artemis is: in order to completely cover a territory of 50x50 tiles, you need (50/4)^2 = 156 settlers without Artemis and (50/6)^2 = 69 settlers with Artemis! That is huge!

Oh, yes: I never mentioned it explicitly, but I assume we are going for domination. It will be much faster than Conquest, as we won't have to go for the far away civs. Our home continent (with Artemis ) and perhaps a few more towns closeby on the Ottoman/Aztec continent should be sufficient for domination.

(If we are not going for domination, we should discuss this now, as the desired victory condition has a huge impact on our strategy, what wonders to build, how far to research, etc.!)

 

[Lanzelot]

... to get 66% land (or does that required percentage also include Coast/Sea tiles?), and 66% population is then just a matter of time.

Coastal tiles count towards the domination limit, sea and ocean tiles do not.
Getting the 66% population is usually not a problem. In my games I always reach 66% pop long before I reach 66% territory. (And if necessary, one can always join a bunch of captured slaves to towns 1-2 turns before getting to 66% territory.

 

[Elephantium]

I'm not sure I understand Oslo's Courthouse build. At 26% corruption, that doesn't seem quite bad enough to require such an early build

It doesn't need a Duct, so it can't be a prebuild...

As for the GLib, I don't think we care about that. We want to turn off research after we can build Berserks, not right now!

I'm fine with Pyramids or ToA; they both do nice things. In any event, we can win without either, so they're just gravy.

 

[Lanzelot]

I'm not sure I understand Oslo's Courthouse build.

Ahem, yes indeed?! Didn't catch that... Oslo should be building Barracks right now, according to what we discussed before robbus' turnset?!

 

[Elephantium]

By the way, nobody discovered the real reason why my proposed culture attack would have worked against Yekaterinburg, but with the Great Library my culture attack becomes obsolete. We should still try it if we go for the Pyramids instead...

Speedbird, perhaps you could share this secret reason? I'm not a mind reader, you know...

 

[tjs282]

It doesn't need a Duct, so it can't be a prebuild...

Ahem, yes indeed?! Didn't catch that... Oslo should be building Barracks right now, according to what we discussed before robbus' turnset?!

Really? I didn't catch that. Robbus was building an rSpear there when I took over, remember? I thought I was supposed to (pre)build the FP there, since it's 2nd-ring, but will be slow-growing (and hence have low shield-output) until we irrigate (in progress). The CH was for when we hit 10 towns, at which point we could either finish it (cash-rush?) then start FP, or change directly to FP.

If you'd rather have a Rax, sure I can switch to that instead, but I was under the impression that I/we weren't going to build a significant number of units over the next couple of turns/sets, until we have more free-unit support...? Once Oslo is at Pop5-6 and has a CH (or the FP), it should be able to knock out a 20-shield Rax in 3-4T, easy, and then Archers/Horses in 3-5T.

I would like to finish my set and post the log/save today (preferably before midnight!), so can we agree on a Wonder for the SGL (ToA or Pyramids seem like the best options?), and finalise the town-plans...?

Re. our SGL-Wonder:
Frankly, I think the Byzzies are too far away to go and get GLight from them when we'll want it: potentially we'll have to sail a long way along their coast, running the boot-risk or the Dromon-gauntlet to do it, without being able to retreat out to Sea until we've captured Const'ple. Which we would really also need to do before we've got Zerks. Not to mention, Dora doesn't actually know Maps yet, IIRC...? And if we're going to gift her something, let it be Maths, so she can build SoZ instead of Cathy, and go and kill Hanni's NuMercs. On attack, our Zerks can smash ACavs just as easily as they can smash Spears...

So I would prefer that the Dutch build the GLight, since it will be much quicker/ simpler to send our Horses/Archers overland to get it directly from Willy, than go after the Byzzies before we control 'our' northern coast (we want to wait for the Russians to finish Oracle?). Unless by building ToA, we can guarantee that the Ottos cascade their ToA-build to Pyramids, finish it, and the Dutch then win GLight by default, we should build the Pyramids ourselves, not ToA.

Berzerker Armies are amphibious!

They don't fit in Galleys though, unless we only put 1 Zerk in them And if we want ToA to cover our land, we're not going to aim for Astro/Caravels, are we? That needs Edu...

 

[Elephantium]

I'm leaning more towards Pyramids now. ToA is nice to use very few towns to cover lots of territory-but we'll want to build lots of towns for unit support (capture plus fill in tax farms).

 

[choxorn]

I'd also prefer Pyramids. Heck, depending on how long AI's have been building wonders and what techs they have, we could reasonably build the Temple without an SGL after we build the Pyramids.

 

[Lanzelot]

Ok, Pyramids then! That ain't too bad either...

Regarding Oslo: you are right... The discussion had been after robbus' turnset, and I wasn't quite sure yet myself, whether Barracks or FP would be better... See beginning of #225 ...

 

[Spoonwood]

Do we get Wonder pop-ups from Civs we've never heard of?

No. Only from tribes you know. To test this, just open a Sid game with a lot of opponents on an 80% archipelago map (or maybe some lower level with accelerated production on), try not to meet anyone and note if you saw a pop-up before The Colossus got built. Maybe make them seafaring also, and/or scientific (though the AI tends to research Bronze Working fast if they don't have it). Even if you did see such, did you see a Colossus pop up from most of your opponents?

 

[Elephantium]

I would appreciate some input on the next Worker-moves.

I have 2 free to move this turn. Should they mine the Grass that Robbus irrigated (2*3 WT), or
irrigate the BGrass I just roaded near Bergen (2*2 WT, but the Worker near Trond can't start that job this turn)

Bergen needs 5 FPT right now, but Trond will need 5FPT (+7SPT) in 3T...

Irrigate. Both cities need (and have, with judicious tile assignments) +5fpt. Mining the irrigated reg. grass will drop Bergen to +4fpt.

The Worker near Trond should start chopping for Reyk, then road.

Have you decided where to rush the Pyramids?

Trond: Nah, SGL-rush would screw up food/shields MM.
Bergen: SGL-rush would screw up food/shields MM here, too.
Copenhagen: Wastes 3 shields, costing 2 turns of progress on our next Galley (no loss there), but culture growth here doesn't help much in the short term.
Reykjavik: Wastes 6 shields and resets Lib progress, but culture growth gets access to fish and a BG! Unfortunately, Angstrom can't get there 'til next turn
Oslo: Wastes 17 shields

All told, I'm leaning towards Reyk -- and we could rush a Worker there this turn, so the Leader would be operating on an empty shield box. Now, that puts the city back to size 1, but it doesn't matter; Reyk can only work two tiles if they're both coasts (due to unhappy faces). It'll take 6-7 turns to road to it vs. 8 to grow again, so I'd say it's a worthwhile tradeoff.

Here's a food/tile map. Every city easily gets 12 tiles to work if we put Orange Dot CxC with Yekaterinburg -- it looks to be a bit tighter if we have it CxC with Copenhagen (but probably still doable).

 

[tjs282]

Turns 80-85 have now been logged on the previous page (Post#252). Here's the rest of the log, the Handover notes and the 750 BC save. There is bad news (Green-dot's a bust right now, as is Pyramids), good news (all towns are now getting up to strength, Pyramids is on our Continent), and better news (we can still build ToA, and the Dutch -- and Aztecs -- are building GLight, so capturing it will not be difficult). Onwards and upwards...

Spoiler Turns 86-90 :

T 86, 850 BC
GAME SAVED immediately for team discussion...
...
[Screencard: "Two days later..."]
...
I just woke up at 5 am on Saturday morning. I can't sleep. Better play instead...
Trond's Worker to chop+road+irrigate Forest outside Reyk (1+4+3T)
Bergen's Worker starts irrigating newly roaded BGrass (4T)
Reyk's rArcher sent to scout for/disperse barb-camps near Green-dot
If Pink-dot (Sugar-town) is to move NW off the Hill, I will also push Green-Dot 1NW (i.e. 3W of Trond), to grab the coastal BGgrass immediately, make more room for Trond+Reyk (and potential 2nd-ring Tundra cities, which can get to Pop12, with Harbours + Ducts + Libs + Markets), and give us more freedom to shift tiles around between Cope, Orange-Dot, and Yek'burg
Dr Angstrom therefore sits tight, waiting for Green-dot to be founded, where we will immediately rush Pyramids to get the Whales (oh yeah, and free Grans everywhere else on this Continent...), without wasting any other town's shields
rWarrior finds Yakutsk behind the Mountain, 5NW of Eindhoven, and 1 tile away from freshwater... If we only get the soft-boot, I'll move 1N next turn...
vGalley goes to oversee the Coastal channels from here to the Aztec core
rCurragh discovers barb-boat on its second move, and retreats out to Sea -- it's a choice between a low risk of sinking, and a near-guarantee of being sunk
IBT
Soft-boot order -- excellent. We'll get a free kick N or NW next IBT. Or not: Russian Worker just moved where I wanted to go *sigh*
Trondheim's border pops from the LIb-Culture, but not quick enough...
Bergen: --> 2T Worker
Dutch begin GLight in ??? (didn't check at the time). Awesome! Willy obviously wants it, so when we hijack the Pyramids, he should shift the build over to Amsterdam!
Oh crap! Willy just founded Arnhem on the coastal BGrass next to (my new) Green-dot! But I don't want to piss him off yet...

T 87, 825 BC
Trond double-checked that it will complete the Settler in 1T. Since it's only getting 2 FPT (and will unfortunately waste 1f), I make sure it has 10SPT coming in from current worked tiles
Bergen's new Worker sent to road Plains to White-dot (1+3+1+3T), to speed the next Settler. rArcher covers him (and eSpear will be free in a couple of turns)
rWarrior blocked to the north, so I turn west instead, out of Russian borders
rCurragh survived the IBT! Question is now, whether the Barb-galley will chase it east...
Reyk's Archer returns home -- nothing to see here, folks...
IBT
rCurragh sinks Barb-boat!
Trond: Ready to start pumping 4T-Settlers (after MM)! Will need close watching!

T 88, 800 BC
Trond MM'd for 7SPT, 5FPT; Worker east of Trond begins irrigating river-BGrass (4T)
To keep 5FPT in Trond for the next Settler-pump cycle , both Reyk's citizens must be sent fishing for 0FPT net for 2T(?), until Trond's worker finishes irrigating the riverside-BGrass (and Trond can thus give the non-river irBG back to Reyk)
Settler sent to found White-dot, with eSpear (4T to arrival, because we have no roads yet)
Oslo MM'd for growth in 2T at 3FPT; Worker SE of Oslo begins irrigating BGrass (4T)
rWarrior sees (still unhooked) Iron on Hill to the north, between Novgorod and Rotterdam
rCurragh continues east, mapping Byzzie north coast
vGalley heads north, mapping west coast of Azteca/ Osmania
IBT
Our Horses are hooked! Soon there'll be trouble for someone...
Hanni cancels MA, I don't want to renew the RoP on its own. And he now has Monarchy, but won't trade for it, suggesting he got there before Ozzie. No Iron though...
Arab rSpear shows up near Arnhem!
Bergen: --> 2T Worker
OH CRAP: Byzzies finish the Pyramids in Const'ple! ToA it is, then, once the Settler arrives at White-dot...

T 89, 775 BC
Horse-roader and new Worker go to mine the riverside-Grass NNE of Trond (3T)
rCurragh appears to be approaching Const'ple
Guessing that the Arabs think Trond is an easy mark, Reyk's rArcher is sent north, other Archers start assembling near Bergen (eSpear goes to cover Settler and Worker on Plains)
IBT
Arab Spear heads north (towards Bergen?) Out of the Forest though, which is where I want him... And a pink rArcher appears behind him
Treasury warning (from Worker-maintenance, I guess: we're now at -16GPT and 19g)
Dutch begin GLight! Just as we planned!
Aztecs switch to Oracle! And build it! And begin GLight!

T 90, 750 BC
Spear+Settler go N across river, leaving Plains-Worker as Spear-bait -- they will be at White-dot next turn, so I send Angstrom after them
Trond MM'd per screenie
Bergen's new iBGrass is online, so Worker retreats towards trond to mine the Tobacco
Arab rSpear (and rArcher tail) will have to pass 4 r+vArchers to get to the Worker (in 2T) and Bergen (in 3T) or Trond (in 4T). Hopefully we can kill him and his little friend
IBT

Spoiler Handover notes :

Workers:

• Most Workers will finish their current jobs in 2T, the Plains-road near Bergen and the Forest-chop near Reyk will be done in 1T. There is one currently unassigned Worker with no MP left near Trond, who should start mining the Tobacco next turn

Settlers:

• Arnhem was built just as my first Settler appeared, stymying my/our intention to build Green-dot (and SGL-rush the Pyramids there). I did not want to found the planned Green-dot right on Arnhem's border yet, or move it closer to Reyk than planned (this area is already crowded). Rather, once we're ready to DoW Willy (immediately after he builds GLight for us?), (I think) we should capture Arnhem and raze/ Worker-Abandon it, then build Green-dot on the Forest next to Arnhem's ruins (i.e. 1NW of Tusker's Green-dot)
• Because of the above spanner, and the agreement to expand outwards, the Settler-pair will arrive on White-dot (i.e. 1W of their current position) next turn, and can found the turn after that. The SGL is with them, for an instant Wonder-build (see below).

Cities:

• Trond's Pop5-7 Settler-pump now works perfectly (at 5 SPT, 6-7SPT): it needs tile-reassignment from the riverside-Forest (which should not be chopped yet!) to a 2FPT tile on growth to Pop6 (see the example screenie below, taken at the start of the first 'proper' 4T-cycle, at Pop5 with an empty food-bin)
  • NB Despite what the game is saying, the next Settler should actually arrive in 2T, not 3T, because the game takes no account of IBT-shields (similar to the situation in the screenie below: it's actually 4T to the Settler, not 5T). This next Settler should probably build Orange-dot, as marked in Tusker's food-map in the previous post (NOT as in his original dotmap!)

• Bergen's Pop6-7 Worker-pump may still need double-checking on Worker-completion, to ensure that the right tile(s) are worked for 5FPT, 5 SPT: the Governator has defaulted to 4FPT every time on my set, but with the mined riverside Grass between Trond and Bergen coming online, and/or Bergen's riverside-Plains soon to be irrigated, this should not be a problem much longer. Next Worker is due this IBT
• Cope is doing well (now at Pop5, not Pop4), and will build another Galley soon. But given the success of our Curragh (see below), this may not be needed yet, so it could maybe build a Lib -- or prebuild a Duct -- instead.
• Oslo (now at Pop3) is building a CH as prebuild for FP, and is currently at exactly 30s. Switching to Rax now will therefore waste 10s, but it could also be switched to an rHorse, and then build a Rax (and then vHorses, and then the FP?) if the team agrees. We are going to need vHorses soon, to go after the Dutch
  • In the meantime, I can't remember if I gave Oslo back its iBGrass for more food and faster growth (Bergen was using it, but doesn't need it anymore). If I didn't (and if doing so won't then lead to waste/over-run), please do this before hitting 'Next turn'
• Reyk is currently not growing, but once Trond has its 3FPT+1SPT riverside BGrass to work (where the Worker is, in the above shot), Reyk can have the other one back (1NE of the Forest), and grow at +2FPT before irrigation. Bergen still needs a lot of roads/irrigation

Exploration/ Military/ Diplo:

• Our rWarrior is pretty much done mapping the fog in Russia/ Netherlands, and can start to head west now; later he can turn south, to finish mapping our future core; he cannot continue past Moscow to the west, to see if that land is a peninsula or a landbridge, unless we sign an RoP with Cathy
• Amazingly, our intrepid Curragh is still alive, and still busy mapping Byzantium's coastline; our 'Mission Red' Galley is mapping the Aztec coast on its way north, but can be back in our waters for Settler-transport or 'Mission Yellow' within the next 4-5 T if need be
• We are still at peace with everyone except the Arabs and the Aztecs. Our MA+ROP with Carthage has been cancelled, so Hanni may be making peace with Abu soon. We can start building Horsemen anytime we like, but I haven't started any yet, since our Worker-numbers are now eating a lot of maintenance (but this will go down once we found White-dot and Orange-dot, and maybe also some Tundra-fishing towns).
• Until the last 2T, I saw no hostile forces on my set. Our Archers near Bergen are fortified/sentried, but have available MP, so if the next player wants to attack the Arab rSpear they're welcome. I would suggest to draw the Archer out of the Forest and kill him first, though -- no Workers, Settlers or towns are imminently threatened

Techs/ Trade:

• We are still way ahead: no-one else knows Maths yet, and we are about 2/5 of the way to Construction (9/15T left, at SCI%=60%). However, due to my/our deficit research and unit (Worker!) maintenance costs, we now have only 19g in the kitty, so to avoid going broke before the tech comes in, we will need to drop SCI% to 40% for Construction in 14T at -1GPT. The Arabs and the Carthaginians just learned Monarchy (Hanni won't trade for it), but that's the only other new tech available to us; everyone else is still backwards, and with no Resources to sell until they build some Harbours.
• It's probably not worth selling our [near-]monopoly-techs, though, because only Arabia/Azteca have any substantial amounts of lump-sum cash right now. I haven't investigated potential trades in detail though; and CAII didn't auto-update itself while I was playing the second half, so I don't know if/ how much money was changing hands during the previous 4T.

Wonders:

• 2T after the Green-dot plan was stymied, and 1T after I had already sent the Settler westwards, Pyramids (400s) got built by Dora, starting a Wonder-cascade: Monty built Oracle (300s), and Willy is now building GLight (300s) in Amsterdam -- just like we planned! (Monty is building GLight too, but not in his capital, so I think Willy has it in the bag)
• With the tech situation as it is, I don't think it will go (much) further than this, and no-one has switched to ToA yet (Moscow will likely cascade its Oracle-build to GLib [400s] or ToA [500s], but Cathy can't finish either of them anytime soon), so we should still be able to build ToA ourselves in White-dot, in 2T -- just like Lanzelot planned!

Roster (from memory, correct me if I'm wrong):

Robbus
tjs282 [after skip] -- Just played
Choxorn --> Up next
Elephantium --> On deck (if done with LKT's Mayan-murderers game!)
Speedbird
tjs282 [per original order]
Nathiri
Lanzelot

 

[Elephantium]

Bummer about the Pyramids. I do wish you'd built Green Dot in its original location You didn't like my Reyk-> Worker->Pyramids suggestion, I take it?

I'd like to swap with Choxorn: I have a LOT left to do in the Mayan game!

 

[choxorn]

I was just about to ask to swap with you, I'm much less busy over the weekend than I will be next week.

I'll take the next set, then.

 

[tjs282]

Bummer about the Pyramids.

Yeah... But we can still get ToA instead, and if we want the Pyramids, we can make Dora our first Zerk-target...

I do wish you'd built Green Dot in its original location

I didn't really have a chance to build Green-dot at all. The original location would have put it diagonally CxC from Arnhem, which was founded on your blue '4' (not our Pink-dot on the Hill, which Lanz anyway wants to move, to free-up the mined-Hill shields), on the turn before our Settler appeared. Aggressive Settling while still militarily weak vs. Holland seemed like a bad idea, especially given that (I thought) Arnhem would/ will get the 3x3 and Green-dot would/will have been stuck with an offset 3x3 patch of Hills and Forest, with only 1 irBG (which Trond still needs for the Settler-factory).

You didn't like my Reyk-> Worker->Pyramids suggestion, I take it?

OK, now I'm really embarrassed I didn't log in last night, but I did see your post (had family time, and in the end it was too late to start playing); but then I spent most of my time staring/ marvelling at your food-map (thanks for doing that, BTW). And I must have totally skipped over that paragraph -- I just now read it for the first time. That would have been the smart thing to do, yes.

I'd like to swap with Choxorn: I have a LOT left to do in the Mayan game!

Thought you might, I'll edit the roster...

 

[Lanzelot]

Excellent news about losing the Pyramids... ToA is much stronger anyway... (And now we can have the whole enchilada... ToA, Lighthouse in Amsterdam and Oracle in Tenochtitlan. Only the Pyramids are a wee bit far away.)

But why didn't you found Green as planned?? With a wonder in it next turn, it would immediately grab those three tiles from Arnhem.... (No need to even wait for the first culture expansion: having more culture already suffices... And who nows: perhaps Arnhem would even flip to us... )

Here is what we should do right this turn before continueing: Sign up the Dutch for an alliance versus Arabia. We can even get 29g for it, if we put Mathematics on the table. (Allows another 1-2 turns of deficit research...) As we will soon go to the offensive, it can't hurt to soften them up a bit more... And perhaps we are lucky and the Arabs raze Arnhem for us next turn...

And while we are at it: as we need to gift up the scientifics anyway, we can harvest a bit more cash. 20g for the cheapest tech (e.g. Wheel) from the Osmans, and also trade Math to the Russians for a RoP and some spare change. (Perhaps we get lucky, and Moscow cascades to Zeus, now that the Oracle is finished!) So it's important to give Russia Mathematics still this turn! (At the moment F7 shows Moscow still as building the Oracle, but they will switch interturn.)

 

[Lanzelot]

I can't remember if I gave Oslo back its iBGrass for more food and faster growth (Bergen was using it, but doesn't need it anymore). If I didn't (and if doing so won't then lead to waste/over-run), please do this before hitting 'Next turn'

This is important, please be sure to do that as well in your pre-flight, choxorn. At the moment Oslo is growing with +2fpt, but could as well do so with +4fpt. There is still an idle irrigated BG south west of Bergen.

 

[Lanzelot]

Here's a food/tile map. Every city easily gets 12 tiles to work if we put Orange Dot CxC with Yekaterinburg

Very nice!
So "New Orange" at 2S of Yekaterinburg should be planted next.

 

[Elephantium]

Excellent news about losing the Pyramids... ToA is much stronger anyway...

I'm not sure I agree. We want a lot of CxxC or CxxxC cities, not the sprawling CxxxxxC layout that the built-in culture expansions allow. ToA is GREAT for taking up lots of space with low population; it's less great for building up a lot of cities.

Not that it hurts...the free temples *do* stand in for an extra 10% on the lux slider in most cities.

Are there any other factors that make you favor ToA?