TNT Files - Term 5

[peter grimes]

The letter did not specifically mention trading Chivalry and Engineering, nor trading Education (et alia) and Gunpowder (et alia).

And besides that - do we want to trade any of these things before the threat of the Great Library has been neutralized?

EDIT: Great letter, other than that. There is something really happy and playful in the tone. Well written

 

[Chamnix]

Actually Feudalism is 32 not 36, so TNT is getting the better of this trade as well. Also, are we sure we want to go for Chivalry? Thoughts coming in the Domestic Ministry thread...

Just to make sure my previous post doesn't get lost since it was the last one on the previous page - I don't think TNT will be researching a Middle Age tech at all - I think they are planning to do Monarchy.

 

[fe3333au]

Actually Feudalism is 32 not 36, so TNT is getting the better of this trade as well.

could have sworn I had checked ... will correct

Also, are we sure we want to go for Chivalry? Thoughts coming in the Domestic Ministry thread...

I was just going with and extending Plan D in Domestic thread.

I don't think TNT will be researching a Middle Age tech at all - I think they are planning to do Monarchy.

I believe they mentioned that too I guess it will give us a bigger advantage and better possibilities of getting a SGL if they spend some time researching Monarchy

Big question ... do we want to continue to trade only with TNT?

We have certainly given them a big boost which I hope they will look favourably if trades are not totally in their favour ... and now that our MA swap worked to their advantage, they certainly owe us IMO.

A threat we need to address is the Great Library

Are we going to ignore it and allow another to build it? ... if we are ahead in the MA techs, can we trade the techs we have researched for someone else neutralising the GL threat? ... can we talk TNT into doing this for us in return for whatever we choose to research?



In regards to the letter to TNT how about this ...


Greeting to the newly enlightened

Greeting Donsig grand vizier and good ambassador Greekguy

It seems that Meleet looks down and smiles on the true believers.

The gift freely given to us was Monotheism (36) and to you Feudalism(32). A knowledge trade while not equal in value, MIA believe that the outcome offered the best scenario that could be possible for rapid growth, prosperity and security. Now as per our agreement we will swap them between us and be strong ... please SEND Feudalism with ACCEPT as we require a strong military immediately.

We understand that you are busy researching Monarchy, once completed we were wondering if you would like to continue to combine our scientific strengths and research different Middle Age technologies with the aim of swapping them again, thereby furthering our respective leads on those that have forsaken the path of enlightened wisdom.

We are open to any ideas you may have on the subject especially if it incorporates a speedy neutralisation of the Great Library threat. Imagine seeing your technology lead dissolving when the backward team is gifted EVERY scrap of knowledge known by two others, especially if the main candidate for this is your mortal enemy the Nutters.


What say you? Will the Enlightened combine their brains

We await your answer eagerly


Warmest regards


Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Office

 

[Black_Hole]

I think we should continue trading with just TNT... After they finish monarchy I think we could split the tech tree in half, this way we both research twice as fast and we both can get far ahead of the Dnuts, and Kiss...

Once we are this far ahead the only team to trade with will be TNT, eventually we can get far enough ahead that we can easily squash Kiss with more advanced units and then have the island to ourselves, but that is thinking pretty far ahead...

 

[Chamnix]

I was just going with and extending Plan D in Domestic thread.

The fact that you are following the plan I posted is no reason to think I'm going to agree with it . Seriously, the fact that KISS' military is not as strong as expected makes me wonder about the usefulness of knights.

As far as future plans, it seems likely that we are going to be trading mostly with TNT, but I would avoid any more exclusive deals for now.

The longer the game goes on and the more techs are commonly known, the less worrisome the Great Library becomes. I don't view it as quite as big a threat right now as I once did.

 

[peter grimes]

When two civs know Feudalism, the the GL civ has access to MDI. That effectively levels the offensive playing field. One natural consequence of this is a 3 vs 1 against he who lags.

But I'd rather that just two of us remain out in front.

One thing to consider: KISS may decide to switch their FP build to the GL once they realize that we can't trade them our Freebie. Boy, they are going to be pretty upset!

I'll take on the role of "Education Lobbyist" if need be. I think the GL is a real threat at this point in the game because this is the first real Technological Gap. Earlier, TNT was lagging quite a bit, but we eliminated that gap for various reasons. I see no point in passively allowing KISS or DNUTs to catch up with the lead that MIA has worked so effectively to achieve.

We need to get Education at some point, so convince me that now is not the best time. I'm open, but I'll need convincing.

 

[Chamnix]

Assuming the Monotheism/Feudalism trade is completed as planned, the Great Library will already give Feudalism no matter what we do.

In order to minimize other damage from the Great Library, we have to research Theology and Education, and give them both to someone else, and not get any techs in return until the following turn.

First, do we trust TNT that much?

Second, to me that gives away our tech advantage as surely as ignoring the Great Library. Consider if we research Theology and Education right now - by the time we are done, KISS will certainly have Construction and Feudalism. We will still be up, but only by a couple of non-military techs which really don't seem to matter much right now. On the more important (for military purposes) bottom half of the tree, they will be equal, and they wouldn't have even had to waste 400 shields to get there.

I'm not sure we need to get Education at some point - if the game explodes into war, Military Tradition may be the last tech researched.

 

[peter grimes]

In order to minimize other damage from the Great Library, we have to research Theology and Education, and give them both to someone else, and not get any techs in return until the following turn.

Am I reading this correctly to mean that it takes two civs having Education in order to neutralize the Great Library? If so, that certainly changes the strategy.

 

[fe3333au]

Wow ... I hope you are wrong ... cos I never heard of that ...

But I fully support neutralising the geat Library ... but I suspect that we need partners to do it confidently ... cos everyone else will be going for the sexy military techs

btw ... I want to send TNT letter ... comments?

 

[fe3333au]

I have sent the Greeting to the newly enlightened Letter to the TNT as they have received the save recently ... sent to TNT g-mail, Donsig and greekguy as PMs

 

[Rik Meleet]

lurker's comment: The Great Library obsoletes when the owner of it has Education. Usually the owner tries to avoid getting Education, where possible. However since the Great Lib gets all techs that 2 (other) civs have; making sure that 2 civs have Education forces the Great Lib owner to get it as well; obsoleting the Great Lib.

 

[fe3333au]

Hmmm ... Thanks RIK ... I guess another option could be to send the technology which makes it obsolete

Beware Greeks Bearing Gifts

 

[Rik Meleet]

Hmmm ... Thanks RIK ... I guess another option could be to send the technology which makes it obsolete

Beware Greeks Bearing Gifts

Don't you think the other teams know of these Greek gifts and simply don't accept them ??

 

[fe3333au]

Send with ACCEPT is automatic is it not ?!

 

[azzaman333]

It was a good thought fe, even though it couldnt work.

 

[fe3333au]

Wow two pigeons comming in at the same time ... one from KISS ... the other from abroad.

TNT-MIA Diplomacy

Dear MIA,

Thank the Great Meelet! My people are very pleased that your freebie was Monotheism. We are willing and ready to trade our Middle Age freebies and are now going to send over Feudalism with accept. All you have to do is hit accept, and the deal is done.

Also, my people would like to start discussing future trade deals as part of our Alliance of Science (i think that should be our official alliance name, what do you think? ) First off, we would like to tell you we aren't researching Monarchy. We have decided to not pursue that form of government. Instead, we have turned off research until our two teams put our heads together, and figure out what we are going to research. The three choices are Theology, Chivalry, and Engineering. Please give your ideas on which techs to research and swap. Also, we should try to brainstorm some ideas to counter the Great Library threat that poses our teams. The quicker we can stop the Agri civs from using it to their advantage, the better.

Now, time for some news of the Iroqi War. Although the battles between our peoples have been reduced to rare skirmishes, we have been doing some calculations on the results of our battles with the Iroqi. We have found that the Iroqi have not lost a single battle in which they were attacking. We hope our horrible luck will change in the future.

Goodbye for now.

greekguy, TNT Greek Ambassador

I am drafting a responce that will also strongly express that we are not amused at their quip to KISS ... if they want to play at goading, they are not to use MIA's name.

 

[azzaman333]

Since TNT is interested in nullifying the GL, we could propose to TNTthat we beeline to Education and they beeline to Gunpowder. If the GL has already been built, we trade edu to them and wait a couple of turns to make sure the GL is dead. If not, we try to sell everyone edu.

 

[fe3333au]

Here is a draft which we should play with ...

Greeting greekguy of the TNT.

A good name for a strong and mutual friendship, we like the title Alliance of Science ... BUT, before we discuss matters of a beneficial and positive nature, I must address something that disturbs us and seek clarification.

We have received the expected responce from KISS, they received your letter where you informed them that you could not trade Construction with them. Their reaction was no surprise, anger at being cut off from a Construction deal ... we are led to believe that they are stuck in the middle of researching Monarchy (a logical move for a religious traited civilization).

However, I am also led to believe that you ended your letter with the parting statement ... "Enjoy the war with MIA." We seek an explanation for this action and can only stress our strong dissapointment, I am hoping that you are not trying to goad KISS into attacking MIA !!?? So please reply soon as we cannot allow this type of diplomacy to be sent as it directly affects us.

On to better topics ... and as mentioned Alliance of Science has a certain ring which is pleasing to the ear.

Options
Engineering 36(1080) ... Invention 44(1320) ... Gunpowder 48(1440)
>
Chivalry 32(960) ...
>
Theology 40(1200) ... Education 44(1320)

Please write your thoughts or perhaps book an AIM session (times must be stated in GMT)

What technology would best suit the needs in your war ... Chivalry although a deadended technology it never the less produces units that can counter both our respective rival's UUs.

Also inorder to get a timeframe, could you inform us at what level beakers you are prepared to set your research levels ?!

Also and paramount should be the issue of the GL and how it effects trading between us prior to neutralisation.


Regards

Feaurius III
Foreign Minister MIA

 

[gbno1fan]

Their reaction was no surprise, anger at being cut off from a Construction deal ...

Maybe change the comma to a colon. When I first read this I thought you were trying to say KISS wasn't surprised.

Also, perhaps we should suggest what path we would like. I would prefer we go for gunpower (3840 total beakers) and they do Chivalry-Theology-Education (3480). We would need to be compensated for the difference of 360 beakers.

To compensate for the GL, we could agree to trade only Engineering and Chivalry until the GL has been nullified. This would get both of us Knights for the respective wars we are fighting.

 

[peter grimes]

I just checked the numbers from General_W's CivAssist posting that laid out how our economy would look at this moment under Republic.

We'll be hauling in 63 bpt comfortably (I converted the taxmen to scientists), which would put us at Education in 40 turns without breaking a sweat.

As much as we may want Engineering and Chivalry, I think it is MIA's best interest to go for Education. Our tech lead will only exist relative to whoever doesn't build the Great Library unless we act as swiftly as possible to neutralize it.

If we restrict tech trading with TNT until after Education is discovered then the techs that a GL builder gain aren't all that valuable:

Construction
Monotheism
Feudalism
Theology
Education​

I guess the real question is "Is this what we should be investing in right now?"