TNT Files - Term 5

[Chamnix]

Received via GMail:

Greetings Minister Feaurius III,

Just a quick note to let you know that greekguy is currently indisposed. We've built our first library in Dynopolis and we can't seem to get greekguy out of the place. He keeps muttering something about midterms. We do not understand this phrase - it's all Greek to us.
Until greekguy comes out of his library induced stupor I'll be responsible for communicating with you and your people.

My last note raised a couple questions regarding chivalry and the Great Library threat. My people have grown tired of war and so we are willing to forego the idea of chivalry in favor of engineering and theology. We only await your word on this. It will take us approximately twenty turns to learn either theology or engineering. Please not this does not take into account any down time in research due to anarchy. It the war can be ended we will seriously consider switching to a republican form of government.

Your last note seemed to indicate we should ignore the Great Library threat and just proceed with the Science Alliance and swap techs as we gain them. Is this assumption correct? If so, we need only lock down and firm up which tech each of us will research and then try to set out timing so that we'll each finish our research around the same time. (A tricky thing due to anarchy.) I suggest you research engineering and we research theology. Once research has begun we can keep in touch and adjust our efforts so as to finish at the same time, then we can trade the two techs and start over again on the next pair. I think this is a fair system as the one who can research faster will be able to ease off and collect gold while the slower researcher is catching up.

What say you to this proposal my friends?

signed
donsig
Grand Vizeer of the Ironic and Iroqi Peoples

We do Engineering, and they do Theology sounds reasonable (obviously depending on the outcome of our Domestic Minister's poll/discussion). I'm not sure why it's important to finish at the same time - I guess they want to make sure we stay at tech parity. Even without the Great Library, we may be better off not exchanging quickly to avoid lowering tech prices for Donuts and MIA. For example, we do Engineering, TNT does Theology, but we don't exchange until after Donuts or KISS research Engineering (they will probably both get it at the same time since they will be trading).

I don't know how easy that will be to sell to TNT, but it's a thought...

 

[classical_hero]

We need to know how long it will take for them to get Monarchy, because we could make a side trip to Chivalry without losing any time while they catch up to our position.

 

[fe3333au]

They are not researching Monarchy ... I guess we should await poll results until a reply is sent ...

Mind you I really like the idea of them going the Theology ... Education route and us the Engineering then we swap later after the education swap ... more on the poll thread

 

[peter grimes]

I'm wondering if anyone else is curious about that whole 'Dancing Banana' snafu earlier in the game. Now that we are Partners with TNT, we might be able to ask them, as friends, what happened from their point of view. We could certainly offer them some details of our deliberations at the time, if they asked. It might also help to make them think that we aren't too clever in the analysis department

I really don't want to open any old wounds, but this could be a way to bring them further into our confidence. Does any one think this is a good idea or a bad idea?

 

[fe3333au]

I will be sending this in the next 24 hours

Hail donsig II
Grand Vizier of the Ironic and Iroqi Peoples

Apology accepted

In future, we should consult prior to the release of dis-information, that way we can ensure maximum impact and disruption Interesting to note that KISS misquoted your conflict enjoyment comment. Your wording was certainly a little less provocative than was claimed.

Regarding Chivalry, we were only suggesting this as a possibility since we are researching Engineering and that way you too would have been able to access a military technology. We did not want you to feel as though we had manipulated you into studying the humanities even though it is the only way to neutralise the Great Library threat.

We feel, and would like your feedback, that the best way to counter the Great Library effect is for you to gift (with ACCEPT) us Theology one turn before completing Education, which you will then gift (with ACCEPT) the next turn when you finish learning it ... These technologies will then automatically be passed onto the Great Librarian who will in turn have an embolism ... the Great Library is then neutralised ... The following turn, we shall send you Engineering and Invention since it will then be safe to do so.

Alliance of Science

Research Route for MIA is ... Engineering (36/1080) ... Invention 44(1320)
Suggested Research Route for TNT is ... Theology (40/1200) ... Education (44/1320)


Also good fortune to your militaristic endeavours in the sweating jungles, we have seen military units, a mixture of warriors, spears and swords moving north through high mountain passes. Of course all this information was not sourced through us

We were just wondering, could you tell us what happened early in the game when you refounded the capital, it certainly caused a big furour in the UN


Regards

Feaurius III
Foreign Department MIA

I am prepared to remove the beaker costs ... but feel that it is better to be open when it comes to these matters ... also what about sewing some seeds of doubt

what do others think

24 hours and tickling

 

[Chamnix]

I'm still in favor of less detail, and I don't care much about the Dancing Banana fiasco, but based on our recent knowledge of the military situation, perhaps it would be appropriate to add a sentence like:

Stop building tombs and libraries and build some freakin' military before you get wiped off the map, you morons.

Also, did we see any swords? I don't remember any...

 

[peter grimes]

I wouldn't include two paragraphs:

Regarding Chivalry, we were only suggesting this as a possibility since we are researching Engineering and that way you too would have been able to access a military technology. We did not want you to feel as though we had manipulated you into studying the humanities even though it is the only way to neutralise the Great Library threat.

We feel, and would like your feedback, that the best way to counter the Great Library effect is for you to gift (with ACCEPT) us Theology one turn before completing Education , which you will then gift (with ACCEPT) the next turn when you finish learning it ... These technologies will then automatically be passed onto the Great Librarian who will in turn have an embolism ... the Great Library is then neutralised ... The following turn, we shall send you Engineering and Invention since it will then be safe to do so.

I would definitely include information to the effect that they are by far the weakest military on the planet. Maybe something a little less exasperated than Chamnix' tirade, though:

We have strong evidence from our Military Adviser that your army is profoundly dwarfed by the size and power of your southern neighbors'. Approach peace very warily, as you would approach a grizzly in the woods. We believe your civilization to be in mortal danger.

 

[Chamnix]

I agree with peter grimes that those two paragraphs can be (and should be) deleted. Despite my previous post, I think even less strong than peter's above quote may be in order. "Profoundly dwarfed" is still pretty harsh. Maybe just the facts:

You may note when you receive the save that MIA's military has increased to strong relative to yours. While we are certainly no threat to you (our hands are full keeping our northern neighbors at bay), we feel it is our duty as friends to inform you that Donut's military is still strong relative to ours meaning that they are at least 40% stronger than you. We urge you to redouble your military builds as we believe your civilization could be in mortal danger.

 

[peter grimes]

Actually, I believe that numbers work out such that DNUTs have a minimum of 50% over TNT:

Assuming MIA is at 100
TNT <= 80
DNUT >= 120

120 = 80 + 50%

But I like your wording otherwise

 

[Rik Meleet]

lurker's comment: A gift for TNT ??
strategy article on the military advisor

 

[peter grimes]

EDIT to post 169:

My math is terrible. To all you guys still in school: PAY ATTENTION IN MATH!! Don't turn out like me!

Here's the deal with TNT. I just completed an Armory update, and based on our upgrades, TNT's strength is between 289 to 299. I tried to calculate DNUT's strength relative to TNT, and, as stated above, I should have payed more attention in school. And kept up with things after school. In any case, I think the proper figure, if we want to include it in the letter, is:

DNUT (at least 449) = TNT (289-299) + 55%

Please double check my math there, as I feel like a moron this morning

 

[peter grimes]

@RIK: I'm not sure TNT will enough info to figure out our strength in any meaningful way. Is that what you were thinking the gift was?

Personally, I wonder if DNUTs would like to know what we've just discovered about TNT's military. Maybe our Diplomatic corps could drop them a line and see how much it is worth?

 

[Chamnix]

I don't think it would be a good idea to give Donuts this information - if Donuts knew just how strong they were relative to TNT, I think they would completely overrun TNT. Donuts are probably being cautious because they are overestimating TNT's strength - they know TNT is 20% weaker, but they don't know just how weak TNT really is, and I don't think we want them to know.

 

[General_W]

I agree &#8211; we should certainly warn TNT of their perilous situation. No fancy wording required&#8230; just give them the straight Military Pophead numbers. (and stipulate, of course, that we expect them to keep our numbers confidential)

I don't mind the paragraphs about what to research.

And finally &#8211; we should NOT tell Dnuts that they have a green light to kill our new ally. That's just bad form. (and not good for us!)

 

[peter grimes]

We should ask TNT what their Military PopHead says regarding KISS. It would only be fair, as we are going to tell TNT that DNUT is Strong to us.

 

[fe3333au]

Hail donsig II
Grand Vizier of the Ironic and Iroqi Peoples

Apology accepted

In future, we should consult prior to the release of dis-information, that way we can ensure maximum impact and disruption Interesting to note that KISS misquoted your conflict enjoyment comment. Your wording was certainly a little less provocative than was claimed.

You may note when you receive the save that MIA's military has increased to strong relative to yours. While we are certainly no threat to you (our hands are full keeping our northern neighbors at bay), we feel it is our duty as friends to inform you that Donut's military is still strong relative to ours meaning that they are at least 40% stronger than you. We urge you to redouble your military builds as we believe your civilization could be in mortal danger.

We feel, and would like your feedback, that the best way to counter the Great Library effect is for you to gift (with ACCEPT) us Theology one turn before completing Education, which you will then gift (with ACCEPT) the next turn when you finish learning it ... These technologies will then automatically be passed onto the Great Librarian who will in turn have an embolism ... the Great Library is then neutralised ... The following turn, we shall send you Engineering and Invention since it will then be safe to do so.

Alliance of Science

Research Route for MIA is ... Engineering (36/1080) ... Invention 44(1320)
Suggested Research Route for TNT is ... Theology (40/1200) ... Education (44/1320)


Also good fortune to your militaristic endeavours in the sweating jungles, we have seen military units, a mixture of warriors, spears and swords moving north through high mountain passes. Of course all this information was not sourced through us

We were just wondering, could you tell us what happened early in the game when you refounded the capital, it certainly caused a big furour in the UN and also could you left us know waht KISS' military strength is relative to you and inform us of any change. We will reciprocate with Nut strength.


Regards

Feaurius III
Foreign Department MIA

Why get rid of the Great Libray technology swapping paragraph ... do we not want to make it clear that no trading can occur until the threat is neutralised ???

we saw no swords but Iron is visible ... threefore Swords may well be wandering about

 

[General_W]

I'm happy with that.

Couple of typos at the end...

and also could you left us know waht KISS' military strength is

should be "let" and "what"

 

[Chamnix]

Why get rid of the Great Libray technology swapping paragraph ... do we not want to make it clear that no trading can occur until the threat is neutralised ???

IMO, no, we don't want to make that clear - all this letter should say is that we will research Engineering, they will do Theology. It doesn't even say we will trade at all. Mentioning the trade terms can only make them rethink their path and can do us no good. Besides, what if the Great Library isn't built by the time they complete Education? It just confuses things. I think we should keep this simple - let's not research the same techs, MIA is doing Engineering, end of letter. We will talk about the trade details later.

 

[fe3333au]

Title - MIA Update

Hail donsig II
Grand Vizier of the Ironic and Iroqi Peoples

Apology accepted

In future, we should consult prior to the release of dis-information, that way we can ensure maximum impact and disruption Interesting to note that KISS misquoted your conflict enjoyment comment. Your wording was certainly a little less provocative than was claimed.

You may note when you receive the save that MIA's military has increased to strong relative to yours. While we are certainly no threat to you (our hands are full keeping our northern neighbors at bay), we feel it is our duty as friends to inform you that Donut's military is still strong relative to ours meaning that they are at least 40% stronger than you. We urge you to redouble your military builds as we believe your civilization could be in mortal danger.

We feel, and would like your feedback, that the best way to counter the Great Library effect is for you to gift (with ACCEPT) us Theology one turn before completing Education, which you will then gift (with ACCEPT) the next turn when you finish learning it ... These technologies will then automatically be passed onto the Great Librarian who will in turn have an embolism ... the Great Library is then neutralised ... The following turn, we shall send you Engineering and Invention since it will then be safe to do so.

Alliance of Science

Research Route for MIA is ... Engineering (36/1080) ... Invention 44(1320)
Suggested Research Route for TNT is ... Theology (40/1200) ... Education (44/1320)


Also good fortune to your militaristic endeavours in the sweating jungles, we have seen military units, a mixture of warriors, spears and swords moving north through high mountain passes. Of course all this information was not sourced through us

We were just wondering, could you tell us what happened early in the game when you refounded the capital, it certainly caused a big furour in the UN and also could you lef us know what KISS' military strength is relative to you and inform us of any change. We will reciprocate with any changes in the Nutter's Military strength, we are still weak compared to them.

With regards to KISS, we just received a curt note which indicated that after 470BC (T104) the mutual peace between our peoples will no longer be in effect ... simply put after this dark date, KISS are free to act with aggression without suffering a penalty.

To MIA Diplomatic Corps:

We are unhappy, and frustrated, by your recent dealings with the "Dark Side" across the water. We can no longer guarantee continued peaceful relations beyond 470BC (T104).

During this period we will view any incursion of your troops or settlers north of The Line of Demarcation set forth in the attached map as an act of war and will respond accordingly.

Bede of KISS

Regards

Feaurius III
Foreign Department MIA

Included in the KISS stuff ... regarding the reason Great Library stuff still there, I want to be totally open in all future dealings. I would hate to get all excited and then suddenly things get misinterpreted and tense due to an expectation of Engineering being swapped early.

EDIT - Sent to TNT g-mail and Donsig

 

[fe3333au]

The responce ...

Greetings and good tidings Minister Feaurius III!

We thank you for your information regarding military strengths. We are currently weak to all I think. We are not in mortal peril. We have learned much from this war and the Iroqi cannot destroy us. We are currently working on a mix of pikemen and libraries. We have a peace offering on table. Either the Iroqi will make peace next turn or the war will continue for quite some time. They are currently threatening one of our cities and we may have to temporarily disband it. They can wound us and anger us into prolonging the war but they cannot conquer us.

I see that your country is now a republic. Congratulations!

I am sorry to say that your proposal for the Science Alliance is not at all to our lliking. We do not like the idea of researching two expensive techs and giving them to you while we get nothing until (if?) the Great Library gets built. Since our war may continue we need not only engineering but gunpowder as soon as we can get it! We are currently researching engineering and will have it in 22 turns. If you haven't already started engineering are you willing to research theology? We are interested in the Science Alliance but just not under the proposal you've laid out. If you've already started engineering then we are willing to take the one turn loss and switch to theology if mutually acceptable arrangments for the science alliance can be made.

Sorry if this message sounds curt - the war weariness has set in on me and I'm very tired tonight.

signed
donsig III
Grand Vizeer of the Ironic and Iroqi Peoples