TNT Files - Term 6

[General_W]

Quick note – in the GL deal we were working on with TNT, all payments were to be made based on the Monopoly beaker cost – hence I used those numbers.

Here's a proposed re-work of your original letter Fe.

greekguy of the TNT

Your desperation for cash to rush defensive units indicates just how dire you see your situation, however we urge you to not let fear not to cloud your thinking. Now is the time to step back and view the situation calmly from a distance ... and allow a rational exploration of every avenue open before you.

To address your letter, since you have determined that a straight swap of technology will not benefit your plight, I submit below the calculations we used to place a value on Engineering.

The Base value of Engineering = 1080 beakers
But as it is known to everyone, deduct 462 beakers [154 x 3] = 618 beakers is all Engineering is worth currently.

However, as yet another show of our good faith - we will pay you 25% of the Monopoly beaker value which is exactly what you agreed to paying us for tech in the proposed GL gambit.
This comes to 270 beakers.

As further good faith and as a show of our support, we will pay up to 400 gold – if you'd like to take some of the money on a payment plan. If you would like a lump sum now – we can offer 250 gold. If you are willing to take 200 gold now, we will pay you 10 gold per turn for the next 20 turns (total value = 400 gold)

Please understand our position, we have been researching at a deficit to gain the knowledge of Theology and therefore our vaults echo, forlorn in their emptiness.

We would also like to mention in passing that we are saddened by the continual lack of trust that you have shown toward us. After our extremely generous aid to you in the advancement to the Middle Ages, our continual good faith in providing intelligence about Dnuts and warning you that we suspected a KISS attack, and even now our generosity in helping with the war with KISS - you still withhold engineering out of fear we will not be fair with you?
I suppose we can understand that paranoia – but we hope that you will someday learn to trust us more. Our interests are truly aligned, and fear and mistrust between us only helps our mutual enemies.

As to the period of peace with KISS, let's just say that by the time that our hands are untied, it will no longer matter for the situation will have resolved to an outcome. Many changes can occur in half a century of turns.

We therefore must stress that in our opinion, for TNT to have any chance what so ever of survival, you MUST barter for the security of a lasting peace with the Nutters. We have talked with Dnuts and done as much as possible to sow fear of KISS and extol the benefits of peace with TNT. If you stike the proper tone, and maybe offer some concessions – we believe you have a good chance to tip their internal debate in favor of peace.

It's only fair to warn you, if TNT is forced to fight on two fronts, by the time MIA could mobilize to attack the Nuts, we fear that TNT would have passed the point of salvation and entered the zone where extinction is assured.


If you let us know which gold option you prefer right away, we'll send it along with the save. Even if you don't respond before we get the chance to send the gold, We hope you can still send us Engineering – our lack of that tech is becoming a sore spot for some members of MIA and is not doing our relationship any favors.
If our past record of honor is not enough – let us again reiterate our promise to deal fairly and honestly with you on this issue.

Looking forward to hearing from you and to moving on to brighter days for both our peoples!

Sincerely

Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister

For swifter response please use AIM.

What do you think of that?

 

[peter grimes]

I dont' like the 10g for 20 turns. It will be much better for them (and for us) to pay 40 gold over 5 turns. You really can't rush many shields with 10 gold. But 30 or 40 gold is definitely useful. So if we are prepared to spend 400 gold against KISS's units, we should do it in larger chunks.

I think we should mention how many turns have elapsed since they first put Engineering on the table. I think it's been three, and it may even have been 4. In either case, I think we should not forget how many worker-turns they have cost us (10?)

We might even want to be even more clear about peace with the DNUTs: Undertake all measures to ensure a long peace with them. If they'll give you 50 turns of peace for a luxury town, that is worth it. With KISS to your west, DNUTs could take the town anyway. If they'll do 30 turns for Chivalry, let us know and we'll give it to you immediately. Do whatever you can to secure your Southern Front, because our analysts believe that KISS won't stop until you are dead!

EDIT: TNT first offered us Engineering on 115

 

[Chamnix]

The Base value of Engineering = 1080 beakers
But as it is known to everyone, deduct 462 beakers [154 x 3] = 618 beakers is all Engineering is worth currently.

However, as yet another show of our good faith - we will pay you 25% of the Monopoly beaker value which is exactly what you agreed to paying us for tech in the proposed GL gambit.
This comes to 270 beakers.

This is a little confusing. We say Engineering is worth 618, but as a show of good faith, we will pay 270. I understand the point is that we are paying 25% of something, but that's not how it reads.

and even now our generosity in helping with the war with KISS

I'm sure that's not how they see it. All we've done so far is tell them we can't help.

our lack of that tech is becoming a sore spot for some members of MIA

I think we should not forget how many worker-turns they have cost us

Amen, brothers!! Not to mention settler turns - there were a couple times that we could have had a town settled sooner to cut down on support (4 gpt: 2 for the town and 2 for the settler!), and start earning food, gold, and shields a couple turns earlier.

I really hate paying gold for something we shouldn't have to pay for. If we want to give them gold because we are kind, that's our business, but this still feels wrong. I guess I would really like to see them pay for Chivalry assuming they get out of this alive.

 

[General_W]

Very good points about the gold Peter. I was just trying to stretch it out to save us gold if TNT does in fact go straight down the tubes. And 10 gold on it's own isn't much good – but combined with whatever TNT is making per turn, it may be very helpful.

If you think 400 is too much, let's talk about it. That's just my suggestion.

Also – criticism of my wording on the Engineering paragraph is well taken – I have re-worked it below.

And I'm rewording the part about our good faith also.
- Thanks Chamnix!

Also, I like what Peter said in that proposed paragraph – but I think it may be a bit too heavy handed. I've adjusted it to be a bit softer in my proposal below.

I think it might be a bit easier for TNT to take.

I've adjusted the letter a bit to account for both your comments and I've tweaked the gold costs a bit.
Let me know what you think!

greekguy of the TNT

Your desperation for cash to rush defensive units indicates just how dire you see your situation, however we urge you to not let fear not to cloud your thinking. Now is the time to step back and view the situation calmly from a distance ... and allow a rational exploration of every avenue open before you.

To address your letter, since you have determined that a straight swap of technology will not benefit your plight, I submit below the calculations we used to place a value on Engineering.

The Base value of Engineering = 1080 beakers
But as it is known to everyone, deduct 462 beakers [154 x 3] = 618 beakers is all Engineering is worth currently.
To avoid researching it ourselves, we are only willing to pay 25% of the beaker cost. (mostly due to multiplication effects of our libraries etc)
This means that Engineering is worth 155 gold to us.

However, as yet another show of our good faith - we would be willing to pay you 25% of the Monopoly beaker value which is exactly what you agreed to paying us for tech in the proposed GL gambit.
This comes to 270 beakers – or - 270 gold.

But it doesn’t stop there!
As further good faith and as a show of our support, we will give you 3 options for how we'll pay you, up to 400 gold
Here are our proposed payment plans:
A) 270 gold, lump sum, right now.
B) 150 gold lump sum, then 40 gold per turn for 5 turns (total value = 350)
C) 200 gold lump sum, then 10 gold per turn for 20 turns (total value = 400)

Please understand our position, we have been researching at a deficit to gain the knowledge of Theology and therefore our vaults echo, forlorn in their emptiness.

We would also like to mention in passing that we are saddened by the continual lack of trust that you have shown toward us. After our extremely generous aid to you in the advancement to the Middle Ages, our continual good faith in providing intelligence about Dnuts and warning you that we suspected a KISS attack - you still withhold engineering out of fear we will not be fair with you?
I suppose we can understand that paranoia – but we hope that you will someday learn to trust us more. Our interests are truly aligned, and fear and mistrust between us only helps our mutual enemies.

As to the period of peace with KISS, let's just say that by the time that our hands are untied, it will no longer matter for the situation will have resolved to an outcome. Many changes can occur in half a century of turns.

We strongly urge you to undertake all measures to ensure a long peace with Dnuts. If they'll give you 50 turns of peace for a luxury town, our beancounters believe that would be worth it. With KISS to your west, DNUTs could take the town anyway. If Nuts will do 30 turns of peace for Chivalry, let us know and we'll give it to you immediately to help secure peace that way (some adjustment to gold payments for Engineering will have to be considered). Our analysts believe that KISS won't stop until you are dead – meaning you should probably do whatever you reasonably can to secure your Southern Front! (Maybe you can secure peace with less dramatic means? That is obviously ideal – but we just want to let you know what our internal analysis has revealed about the value of peace with the Nuts)

We have already talked with Dnuts and done as much as possible to sow fear of KISS and extol the benefits of peace with TNT.

It's only fair to warn you, if TNT is forced to fight on two fronts, by the time MIA could mobilize to attack the Nuts, we fear that TNT would have passed the point of salvation and entered the zone where extinction is assured.

If you let us know which gold option you prefer right away, we'll send the lump sum portion along with the save. Even if you don't respond before we get the chance to send the gold, We hope you can still send us Engineering – our lack of that tech is becoming a sore spot for some members of MIA and is not doing our relationship any favors.
If our past record of honor is not enough – let us again reiterate our promise to deal fairly and honestly with you on this issue.

Looking forward to hearing from you and to moving on to brighter days for both our peoples!

Sincerely

Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister

For swifter response please use AIM

How's that look?

 

[peter grimes]

Much better

Regarding the tone of my proposed paragraph above, I was intentionally going too far in the 'doom and gloom' direction in order to get us to think along those lines a bit.

Aside from the over-all wordiness (and a little bit of topical schizophrenia) I think the letter is sound.

 

[General_W]

Wow! Topical schizophrenia? That's a little unfair, be queit!, considering that it was written by seveal people, I helped write it!, and has a lot of ground to cover.

I'm sure it could be re-ordered to make a bit more sense - but as for making it shorter, I'm not sure what to cut out?

 

[Chamnix]

I think claiming our vaults are empty, but we can give a lump sum of 270 gold "right now" is a little odd...

Why exactly are we giving them a choice of payments again? Why don't we just tell them what we'll pay and how soon we'll pay it? I think if I got that letter, I might wonder why my "friends" couldn't give me 270 gold now, then an additional 80 gold in 5 turns (for example) - by giving choices, we are clearly showing that no matter what they choose, we could give more/sooner but aren't going to.

Of course, I'm just being because we should have had bridges several turns ago, and we shouldn't have to give any gold, and we will miss that gold at some point, and TNT will doubtless use it to rush immortals with no shields in the bin or in non-barracks towns or in places where the immortal will have to defend before it can attack or where they could short-rush using an archer instead of rushing the immortal completely or something. Although I understand the concept of hurting KISS by aiding TNT, I can't help thinking that we would be able to spend our gold better than TNT could. [/rant]

 

[General_W]

Ok – ok – another 1,000 Mokeys letter is starting to take shape.

Here's another run at this taking into consideration all the recent comments.

greekguy of the TNT

The thoughts and prayers of our citizens are with you as you wage this epic battle against the forces of evil arrayed against you.
In this dark hour, we urge you to not let fear cloud your thinking. Now is the time to step back and view the situation calmly from a distance ... and allow a rational exploration of every avenue open before you.

Now, to address your letter, since you have determined that a straight swap of technology will not benefit your plight, we submit below the calculations we used to place a value on Engineering.

Gold For Science:
The Base value of Engineering = 1080 beakers
But as it is known to everyone but us, the cost is reduced by 462 beakers [154 x 3]. Thus making 618 beakers all Engineering is worth currently.
To avoid researching it ourselves, our economists are only willing to pay 25% of the beaker cost. (mostly due to multiplication effects of our libraries etc)
This means that Engineering is worth 155 gold to us.

However, as yet another show of our good faith - we would be willing to pay you 25% of the Monopoly beaker value (in the spirit of what you agreed to paying us for tech in the now failed Great Library gambit)
This comes to 270 beakers – or - 270 gold.

But it doesn’t stop there!
As further good faith and as a show of our support, we will give you 3 options for how we'll pay you, up to 400 gold
Here are our proposed payment plans:
A) 270 gold, lump sum, right now.
B) 150 gold lump sum, then 40 gold per turn for 5 turns (total value = 350)
C) 200 gold lump sum, then 10 gold per turn for 20 turns (total value = 400)

Please understand our position, we have been researching at a deficit to gain the knowledge of Theology and therefore have a limited gold stockpile and spending this much gold will require painful cuts in our future research funding. These offers are more generous than some on our team believe we can afford to be. It is our faith in the future of the TNT/MIA alliance that has carried the day thus far to make this offer.

A Note on Trust:
We would also like to mention in passing that we are saddened by the continual lack of trust that you have shown toward us. After our extremely generous aid to you in the advancement to the Middle Ages, our continual good faith in providing intelligence about Dnuts and warning you that we suspected a KISS attack - you still withhold engineering out of fear we will not be fair with you?
I suppose we can understand that paranoia – but we hope that you will someday learn to trust us more. Our interests are truly aligned, and fear and mistrust between us only helps our mutual enemies.

International Affairs:
As to the period of peace with KISS, let's just say that by the time that our hands are untied, it will no longer matter for the situation will have resolved to an outcome. Many changes can occur in half a century of turns.

We strongly urge you to undertake all measures to ensure a long peace with Dnuts. If they'll give you 50 turns of peace for a luxury town, our beancounters believe that would be worth it. With KISS to your west, DNUTs could take the town anyway. If Nuts will do 30 turns of peace for Chivalry, let us know and we'll give it to you immediately to help secure peace that way (some adjustment to gold payments for Engineering will have to be considered). Our analysts believe that KISS won't stop until you are dead – meaning you should probably do whatever you reasonably can to secure your Southern Front! (Maybe you can secure peace with less dramatic means? That is obviously ideal – but we just want to let you know what our internal analysis has revealed about the value of peace with the Nuts)

We have already talked with Dnuts and done as much as possible to sow fear of KISS and extol the benefits of peace with TNT.

It's only fair to warn you, if TNT is forced to fight on two fronts, by the time MIA could mobilize to attack the Nuts, we fear that TNT would have passed the point of salvation and entered the zone where extinction is assured.

Closing Notes:
If you let us know which gold option you prefer right away, we'll send the lump sum portion along with the save. Even if you don't respond before we get the chance to send the gold, We hope you can still send us Engineering – our lack of that tech is becoming a sore spot for some members of MIA and is not doing our relationship any favors.
If our past record of honor is not enough – let us again reiterate our promise to deal fairly and honestly with you on this issue.

Please don't take this as an insult, but our MIA War College would like to pass on a couple plans that we devised from looking down the barrel of our own "almost war" with KISS.

Spoiler War Tips :

* Never cash-rush units until there is at least 1 shield in the bin (to a avoid costly rush penalty)
* As much as possible, avoid rushing units in towns without a barracks. It costs the same to rush a Veteran as it does to rush a regular!
* Avoid rushing an offence unit (like immortals) in a town where it will have to defend before it gets a chance to attack. Much better to rush a cheaper defensive unit and do more damage for your gold.
* Always looks for chances to "short-rush" a cheaper unit like an archer, and then switch production to a higher cost unit like an Immortal. This is an excellent way to efficiently use gold to shorten build times when instant availability isn't necessary.

Looking forward to hearing from you and to moving on to brighter days for both our peoples!

Sincerely

Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister

For swifter response please use AIM

Looking any better?

 

[peter grimes]

You're really taking this in stride, G_W!

Yes, it's looking a heck of a lot better. I especially like the gentle way you told them how to best spend our gold

I understand Chamnix' point about offering choices for the gold payments, but I think that TNT will like to choose themselves from a list of options. It will make them feel more in control of the amount of gold we're willing to give them.

There is one teensy-weensy little thingy... but don't do a special edit just for this (especially if I'm the only person who feels this way!):

I suppose we can understand that paranoia – but we hope that you will someday learn to trust us more. Our interests are truly aligned, and fear and mistrust between us only helps our mutual enemies.

A stronger tone might have a better effect: We understand your paranoia, but you must trust us at some point. Our interests are truly aligned, and fear and mistrust between us helps our Mutual Enemies more than it protects either of us.

and...

Even if you don't respond before we get the chance to send the gold, We hope you can still send us Engineering – our lack of that tech is becoming a sore spot for some members of MIA and is not doing our relationship any favors.

could be stronger as well:
... Even if you don't respond before we get the chance to send the gold, you should send Engineering with accept. Our treasuries are located on islands in the middle of rivers, so we need that technology before we can send you any gold. To be quite honest, our lack of that tech for 4 turns after you first put it on the table is not helping your cause among a strong faction of MIA who question your motives.

Again, General, I'm very glad that you've been able to put so much time into this, and I hope you take my criticism for what it is: suggested tweaks, from my mind's eye only. I certainly won't be disappointed or upset if the letter goes off without any of my suggestions.

 

[General_W]

Hey – I kinda enjoy writing these things… it's a nice break from Tax Returns during my day.

I think that second suggestion of yours is a little too strong – but I do agree with the idea of beefing up those statements a bit. And I think the first one is spot on.

I really want to have something ready to go as soon as Fe can approve it – before the save is played would be great, but if not – as soon after the save as possible.

So in that spirit of having something ready, here's an updated version of the letter with some slightly stronger language a-la Minister of Toughness Peter Grimes…

greekguy of the TNT

The thoughts and prayers of our citizens are with you as you wage this epic battle against the forces of evil arrayed against you.
In this dark hour, we urge you to not let fear cloud your thinking. Now is the time to step back and view the situation calmly from a distance ... and allow a rational exploration of every avenue open before you.

Now, to address your letter, since you have determined that a straight swap of technology will not benefit your plight, we submit below the calculations we used to place a value on Engineering.

Gold For Science:
The Base value of Engineering = 1080 beakers
But as it is known to everyone but us, the cost is reduced by 462 beakers [154 x 3]. Thus making 618 beakers all Engineering is worth currently.
To avoid researching it ourselves, our economists are only willing to pay 25% of the beaker cost. (mostly due to multiplication effects of our libraries etc)
This means that Engineering is worth 155 gold to us.

However, as yet another show of our good faith - we would be willing to pay you 25% of the Monopoly beaker value (in the spirit of what you agreed to paying us for tech in the now failed Great Library gambit)
This comes to 270 beakers – or - 270 gold.

But it doesn’t stop there!
As further good faith and as a show of our support, we will give you 3 options for how we'll pay you, up to 400 gold
Here are our proposed payment plans:
A) 270 gold, lump sum, right now.
B) 150 gold lump sum, then 40 gold per turn for 5 turns (total value = 350)
C) 200 gold lump sum, then 10 gold per turn for 20 turns (total value = 400)

Please understand our position, we have been researching at a deficit to gain the knowledge of Theology and therefore have a limited gold stockpile and spending this much gold will require painful cuts in our future research funding. These offers are more generous than some on our team believe we can afford to be. It is our faith in the future of the TNT/MIA alliance that has carried the day thus far to make this offer.

A Note on Trust:
We would also like to mention in passing that we are saddened by the continual lack of trust that you have shown toward us. After our extremely generous aid to you in the advancement to the Middle Ages, our continual good faith in providing intelligence about Dnuts and warning you that we suspected a KISS attack - you still withhold engineering out of fear we will not be fair with you?
We understand your paranoia, but you must trust us at some point. Our interests are truly aligned, and fear and mistrust between us helps our Mutual Enemies more than it protects either of us.

International Affairs:
As to the period of peace with KISS, let's just say that by the time that our hands are untied, it will no longer matter for the situation will have resolved to an outcome. Many changes can occur in half a century of turns.

We strongly urge you to undertake all measures to ensure a long peace with Dnuts. If they'll give you 50 turns of peace for a luxury town, our beancounters believe that would be worth it. With KISS to your west, DNUTs could take the town anyway. If Nuts will do 30 turns of peace for Chivalry, let us know and we'll give it to you immediately to help secure peace that way (some adjustment to gold payments for Engineering will have to be considered). Our analysts believe that KISS won't stop until you are dead – meaning you should probably do whatever you reasonably can to secure your Southern Front! (Maybe you can secure peace with less dramatic means? That is obviously ideal – but we just want to let you know what our internal analysis has revealed about the value of peace with the Nuts)

We have already talked with Dnuts and done as much as possible to sow fear of KISS and extol the benefits of peace with TNT.

It's only fair to warn you, if TNT is forced to fight on two fronts, by the time MIA could mobilize to attack the Nuts, we fear that TNT would have passed the point of salvation and entered the zone where extinction is assured.

Closing Notes:
If you let us know which gold option you prefer right away, we'll send the lump sum portion along with the next save.
Since you probably won't have time to respond before turn 118 is sent, we hope you can still send us Engineering (with accept) with turn 119 – our lack of that tech is becoming a sore spot for some members of MIA and is not doing our relationship any favors. Our Banks are all located on the sides of MIA rivers and the lack of bridges for those rivers makes the bankers very stingy people… and no one wants an audit of this proposed deal.
If our past record of honor is not enough – let us again reiterate our promise to deal fairly and honestly with you on this issue.

Please don't take this as an insult, but our MIA War College would like to pass on a couple plans that we devised from looking down the barrel of our own "almost war" with KISS.

Spoiler War Tips :

War College Cash Rush Maxims
* Never cash-rush units until there is at least 1 shield in the bin (to a avoid costly rush penalty)
* As much as possible, avoid rushing units in towns without a barracks. It costs the same to rush a Veteran as it does to rush a regular!
* Avoid rushing an offence unit (like immortals) in a town where it will have to defend before it gets a chance to attack. Much better to rush a cheaper defensive unit and do more damage for your gold.
* Always looks for chances to "short-rush" a cheaper unit like an archer, and then switch production to a higher cost unit like an Immortal. This is an excellent way to efficiently use gold to shorten build times when instant availability isn't necessary.

Looking forward to hearing from you and to moving on to brighter days for both our peoples!

Sincerely

Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister

For swifter response please use AIM

How's that? I muted the language in that "send us Engineering!" paragraph to more a veiled threat and tried to stir in a bit of humor to make it less intense.

Here's a version of the letter without quotes if Fe wants to send it off with all formatting in tact

Spoiler Proposed Letter :

greekguy of the TNT

The thoughts and prayers of our citizens are with you as you wage this epic battle against the forces of evil arrayed against you.
In this dark hour, we urge you to not let fear cloud your thinking. Now is the time to step back and view the situation calmly from a distance ... and allow a rational exploration of every avenue open before you.

Now, to address your letter, since you have determined that a straight swap of technology will not benefit your plight, we submit below the calculations we used to place a value on Engineering.

Gold For Science:
The Base value of Engineering = 1080 beakers
But as it is known to everyone but us, the cost is reduced by 462 beakers [154 x 3]. Thus making 618 beakers all Engineering is worth currently.
To avoid researching it ourselves, our economists are only willing to pay 25% of the beaker cost. (mostly due to multiplication effects of our libraries etc)
This means that Engineering is worth 155 gold to us.

However, as yet another show of our good faith - we would be willing to pay you 25% of the Monopoly beaker value (in the spirit of what you agreed to paying us for tech in the now failed Great Library gambit)
This comes to 270 beakers – or - 270 gold.

But it doesn’t stop there!
As further good faith and as a show of our support, we will give you 3 options for how we'll pay you, up to 400 gold
Here are our proposed payment plans:
A) 270 gold, lump sum, right now.
B) 150 gold lump sum, then 40 gold per turn for 5 turns (total value = 350)
C) 200 gold lump sum, then 10 gold per turn for 20 turns (total value = 400)

Please understand our position, we have been researching at a deficit to gain the knowledge of Theology and therefore have a limited gold stockpile and spending this much gold will require painful cuts in our future research funding. These offers are more generous than some on our team believe we can afford to be. It is our faith in the future of the TNT/MIA alliance that has carried the day thus far to make this offer.

A Note on Trust:
We would also like to mention in passing that we are saddened by the continual lack of trust that you have shown toward us. After our extremely generous aid to you in the advancement to the Middle Ages, our continual good faith in providing intelligence about Dnuts and warning you that we suspected a KISS attack - you still withhold engineering out of fear we will not be fair with you?
We understand your paranoia, but you must trust us at some point. Our interests are truly aligned, and fear and mistrust between us helps our Mutual Enemies more than it protects either of us.

International Affairs:
As to the period of peace with KISS, let's just say that by the time that our hands are untied, it will no longer matter for the situation will have resolved to an outcome. Many changes can occur in half a century of turns.

We strongly urge you to undertake all measures to ensure a long peace with Dnuts. If they'll give you 50 turns of peace for a luxury town, our beancounters believe that would be worth it. With KISS to your west, DNUTs could take the town anyway. If Nuts will do 30 turns of peace for Chivalry, let us know and we'll give it to you immediately to help secure peace that way (some adjustment to gold payments for Engineering will have to be considered). Our analysts believe that KISS won't stop until you are dead – meaning you should probably do whatever you reasonably can to secure your Southern Front! (Maybe you can secure peace with less dramatic means? That is obviously ideal – but we just want to let you know what our internal analysis has revealed about the value of peace with the Nuts)

We have already talked with Dnuts and done as much as possible to sow fear of KISS and extol the benefits of peace with TNT.

It's only fair to warn you, if TNT is forced to fight on two fronts, by the time MIA could mobilize to attack the Nuts, we fear that TNT would have passed the point of salvation and entered the zone where extinction is assured.

Closing Notes:
If you let us know which gold option you prefer right away, we'll send the lump sum portion along with the next save.
Since you probably won't have time to respond before turn 118 is sent, we hope you can still send us Engineering (with accept) with turn 119 – our lack of that tech is becoming a sore spot for some members of MIA and is not doing our relationship any favors. Our Banks are all located on the sides of MIA rivers and the lack of bridges for those rivers makes the bankers very stingy people… and no one wants an audit of this proposed deal.
If our past record of honor is not enough – let us again reiterate our promise to deal fairly and honestly with you on this issue.

Please don't take this as an insult, but our MIA War College would like to pass on a couple plans that we devised from looking down the barrel of our own "almost war" with KISS.

Spoiler War Tips :

War College Cash Rush Maxims
* Never cash-rush units until there is at least 1 shield in the bin (to a avoid costly rush penalty)
* As much as possible, avoid rushing units in towns without a barracks. It costs the same to rush a Veteran as it does to rush a regular!
* Avoid rushing an offence unit (like immortals) in a town where it will have to defend before it gets a chance to attack. Much better to rush a cheaper defensive unit and do more damage for your gold.
* Always looks for chances to "short-rush" a cheaper unit like an archer, and then switch production to a higher cost unit like an Immortal. This is an excellent way to efficiently use gold to shorten build times when instant availability isn't necessary.

Looking forward to hearing from you and to moving on to brighter days for both our peoples!

Sincerely

Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister

For swifter response please use AIM

 

[fe3333au]

OK .. tweeked a little and spell checked into 'real' English

Title ... Official MIA Responce

greekguy of the TNT

The thoughts and prayers of our citizens are with you as you wage this epic battle against the forces of evil arrayed against you. In this dark hour, we urge you to not let fear cloud your thinking. Now is the time to step back and view the situation calmly from a distance ... and allow a rational exploration of every avenue open before you.

Now, to address your letter, since you have determined that a straight swap of technology will not benefit your plight, we submit below the calculations we used to place a value on Engineering.


Gold For Science:
The Base value of Engineering = 1080 beakers
But as it is known to everyone but us, the cost is reduced by 462 beakers [154 x 3].
Thus making 618 beakers the 'true' worth of Engineering.

To avoid researching it ourselves, our economists are only willing to pay 25% of the beaker cost. (mostly due to multiplication effects of our libraries etc,)
This means that Engineering is worth 155 gold to us.

However, as yet another show of our good faith - we would be willing to pay you 25% of the Monopoly beaker value (in the spirit of what you agreed to paying us for tech in the now failed Great Library gambit)
This comes to 270 beakers – or - 270 gold.

But it doesn’t stop there!
As further good faith and as a show of our support, we will give you 3 options for how we'll pay you, up to 400 gold
Here are our proposed payment plans:
A) 270 gold, lump sum, right now.
B) 150 gold lump sum, then 40 gold per turn for 5 turns (total value = 350)
C) 200 gold lump sum, then 10 gold per turn for 20 turns (total value = 400)

Please understand our position, we have been researching at a deficit to gain the knowledge of Theology and therefore have a limited gold stockpile and spending this much gold will require painful cuts in our future research funding. These offers are more generous than some on our team believe we can afford to be. It is our faith in the future of the TNT/MIA Alliance of Science that has carried the day thus far to make this offer.


A Note on Trust:
We would also like to mention in passing that we are saddened by the continual lack of trust that you have shown toward us. After our extremely generous aid to you in the advancement to the Middle Ages, our continual good faith in providing intelligence about Dnuts and warning you that we suspected a KISS attack - you still withhold Engineering out of fear we will not be fair with you?

We understand your paranoia, but you must trust us at some point. Our interests are truly aligned, and fear and mistrust between us helps our Mutual Enemies more than it protects either of us.


International Affairs:
As to the period of peace with KISS, let's just say that by the time that our hands are untied, it will no longer matter for the situation will have resolved to an outcome. Many changes can occur in half a century of turns.

We strongly urge you to undertake all measures to ensure a long peace with Dnuts. If they'll give you 50 turns of peace for a luxury town, our bean counters believe that would be worth it. With KISS to your west, the Nutters could easily take the town anyway. If Nuts will do 30 turns of peace for Chivalry, let us know and we'll give it to you immediately to help secure peace that way (some adjustment to gold payments for Engineering and a non-trading clause will have to be considered).

Our analysts believe that KISS won't stop until you are dead – meaning you should probably do whatever you reasonably can to secure your Southern Front! (Maybe you can secure peace with less dramatic means? That is obviously ideal – but we just want to let you know what our internal analysis has revealed about the value of peace with the Nuts)

We have already talked with Dnuts and done as much as possible to sow fear of KISS and extol the benefits of peace with TNT. Apparently you still have confirmed peace with Nuts for 7 turns, this gives you ample time to open diplomatic channels.

It's only fair to warn you, if TNT is forced to fight on two fronts, by the time MIA could mobilize to attack the Nuts, we fear that TNT would have passed the point of salvation and entered the zone where extinction is assured.


Closing Notes:
If you let us know which gold option you prefer right away, we'll send the lump sum portion along with the next save.

Since you probably won't have time to respond before turn 118 is sent, we hope you can still send us Engineering (with accept) with turn 119 – our lack of that tech is becoming a sore spot for some members of MIA and is not doing our relationship any favours. Our Banks are all located on the sides of MIA rivers and the lack of bridges for those rivers makes the bankers very stingy people … and no one wants an audit of this proposed deal.

If our past record of honour is not enough – let us again reiterate our promise to deal fairly and honestly with you on this issue.


Please don't take this as an insult, but our MIA War College would like to pass on a couple plans that we devised from looking down the barrel of our own "almost war" with KISS.

Spoiler War Tips :

War College Cash Rush Maxims
* Never cash-rush units until there is at least 1 shield in the bin (to a avoid costly rush penalty)
* As much as possible, avoid rushing units in towns without a barracks. It costs the same to rush a Veteran as it does to rush a regular!
* Avoid rushing an offence unit (like immortals) in a town where it will have to defend before it gets a chance to attack. Much better to rush a cheaper defensive unit and do more damage for your gold.
* Always looks for chances to "short-rush" a cheaper unit like an archer, and then switch production to a higher cost unit like an Immortal. This is an excellent way to efficiently use gold to shorten build times when instant availability isn't necessary.

Looking forward to hearing from you and to moving on to brighter days for both our peoples!

Sincerely

Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister

For swifter response please use AIM

Again the 1000 Monkeys have proven their worth

Sent to TNT g-mail and Pigeoned to greekguy and Donsig.

 

[General_W]

Looks Great! All good changes Fe!

Now, we'll see what TNT has to say....

 

[fe3333au]

Chatted with Donsig ... just to fill you in ... he is getting flack from AIMing with me

fe3333au: you have mail
donsigw: hello
fe3333au: hi
fe3333au: sent official mail to TNT, greekguy and you
donsigw: I see it
fe3333au: let me know your thoughts

Very late (early in am) in Donsig world
donsigw: that's a long message - what's the bottom line? how much gold is engineering worth?
fe3333au: we giving you 3 payment options
donsigw: this message is funny
fe3333au: 270 up front ... 150 up front + 40 x 5 = 350 ... 200 upfront + 10 x 20 = 400

<Mistrust Issue>
donsigw: we don't mistrust you guys - we were just conducting business with the GL gambit ... now things are diff.
fe3333au: sure ... understand

<War Update>
donsigw: we had to abandon two cities and there is a good chance we will lose our capital
fe3333au: I understand ... but as mentioned we have little cash reserves due to rushing towards Theology

Bit twitchy about our percsived lack of KISS treaty update
donsigw: we didn't even get an official heads up that your treaty was sealed with KISS
fe3333au: It happened that turn LOL
donsigw: the GL negotiations were going slow because you all said you weren't sure of the peace status with KISS
donsigw: well, yeah, they were planning to use thier stack on you if no peace or us if you made peace ... they will show us no quarter and then they'll stick it to the nuts

<Respect at KISS' brilliant play>
fe3333au: I think so ... either way brilliant play on KISS part ... grudging respect
donsigw: in 50 turns they'll be able to attack you too ... it's not brilliant if you all would see that nice guys finish last and quit worrying about your honor and attack them

Honour Issues
fe3333au: Matter of Honour
donsigw: you all can't go by that rosy picture our official dispatches portray ... we're in deep doodoo and the deeper we fall the stronger KISS gets ... I hope you all still enjot your honour when you come in second place inthis game

Length of Peace
donsigw: did you get our message asking how long your treaty is? ... my people want to hold out till you can come rescue us ... can't wait till they hear they have to wait 50 turns!
fe3333au: yes ... and answered in the letter ... 50 turns
donsigw: lol

Letter will be posted and discussed
donsigw: well, we'll post your offer - we really need the gold so we're in no position to bargain much

Permission to post this chat ... NOT Official
fe3333au: btw can I post this chat?
donsigw: yes - but please tell your people not to put any of this in an official dispatch to us
fe3333au: sure ... understand
donsigw: I can't tell you all this offiically

Defence Strategy
donsigw: my teammates are too optimistic - Strider and his 7 new immortals. Only 3 can reach the Gall to do anything ... we had to abandon our pre-build - we'll have a 99 shield immortal next turn
fe3333au: Understand ... no worries about GL

Nut Strategy
fe3333au: Now what are your thoughts on Nuts? ... I found out that you have confirmed peace for another 7 turns
donsigw: We're asking the nuts to build an embassy and ally with us ... we're offering them luxuries ... haven't heard back from them

KISS surprised everyone
donsigw: they did say they knew nothing of this attackl
fe3333au: To us too ... I am using this as an indication that KISS may not be as forthcomming and friendly as Nuts would think ... So diplomatically we are trying to sow seeds of doubt in the Nut psychie
donsigw: well, I've gotta go - hoefully we can chat more tomorrow
fe3333au: You should not mention our working behind the scenes to Nuts!!
donsigw: ok

Chat will unfortunately not be posted on TNT threads
fe3333au: cya ... I'll post this ... you should probably as well
donsigw: no I can't post this ... my team mates would string me up ... they think you guys are great

Hmmm ... a possible indication of the responce ???
donsigw: I think we should let you research engineering yourself
fe3333au: Really !!??? ... I will await your official responce then

<frustrated that greekguy is not making himself available>
fe3333au: OK ... try to get greekguy to chat on AIM with me then ... quicker then writing drafts of letters and sending back and forth
donsigw: ok - but he's not up this late I think. I've got odd work hours so I', up till 3 am many times ... greekguy has your aim name
fe3333au: I have chatted before with him
donsigw: do you have his?
fe3333au: yes
donsigw: all right - hopefully you two can hook up ... tomorrow I probably won't be so pressed for time.
fe3333au: he is Tidalwave178 ... ok cya
donsigw: take care

 

[General_W]

What an odd chat!

TNT loves us but Donsig doesn&#8217;t ?
And why would they string him up for talking with us? (because they know he doesn&#8217;t like MIA?!?)

And how does Donsig go from this:

we really need the gold so we're in no position to bargain much

to this&#8230;

I think we should let you research engineering yourself

I&#8217;m very confused!

Oh well &#8211; hopefully the team will respond more favorably&#8230; and TNT will rally against the KISS menace.

 

[fe3333au]

greekguy is the prefered mouth piece for TNT ... and with the chats we had previously, perhaps too much intel was freely given or agreements entered into ... anyway donsig has been informed by his team to not enter into diplomacy.

From my perspective ... I prefer to get quick answers so will continue to enter into conversations ... Donsig has the option to No Comment so I will continue until silenced

Therefore no chat with Donsig is to be considered 'official'

I think he was hoping for greater assistance (monitarily and directly), so his reaction is his personal first contact with our letter.

I wouldn't read too much into it ... however I think it is more a hint as to how his team will react then anything else.

 

[peter grimes]

Based on what Robi said about TNT's request for assistance, I really don't see DNUT spending money on an embassy... unless they're planning on a Right of Passage rape.

...we didn't even get an official heads up that your treaty was sealed with KISS...

Whoops! It's a good thing we didn't get too huffy with TNT about not telling us about the 10 turn extension with DNUTs

...it's not brilliant if you all would see that nice guys finish last and quit worrying about your honor and attack them...

Our treaty does have an out, and if we determine down the line that we really really want to end the Synergistic Epoch, we can. But even with TNT eliminated, I think we'll still be stronger that KISS or DNUTs in terms of war stuff. (We here at the Ministry of Defense love making up technical terms )

We're asking the nuts to build an embassy and ally with us ... we're offering them luxuries ...

If Dnuts is smart, they'll spend the cash on the embassy, and then they get free luxuries. All they'd have to do is wander some MW up north for a while, and as long as they are out of sight of TNT's units, DNUT can claim that they are hurting KISS.... not a very smart gambit on TNT's part.

no I can't post this ... my team mates would string me up ... they think you guys are great

--most confusing line of the whole chat!--

Hopefully they will go for the 1 lump sum, and hopefully DNUTs won't establish an embassy.

 

[General_W]

We got word from TNT!

Dear MIA,

My people have discussed what you said about trust, and decided we have to trust you. You have been very trustworthy throughout this game, so we find no reason to not grant your request. We will provide you with Engineering this turn with Accept, then you will give us the gold when the save gets to you.

We have also chose which gold plan to take. My people believe Plan B would be most beneficial to us, as it supplies us with a large income very quickly. I would like to personally thank you for your kind generosity, as we battle against the evil that is KISS.

Bye for now.

greekguy, TNT Greek Ambassador

I sent this Reply&#8230;

Most Excellent greekguy,

We are very pleased to be able to help you in this dark hour. I speak for many people in Athens who wish we could do more. Rest assured, we are looking at options for what we can realistically do (and still keep our much prized honor in tact).

I am not speaking officially for my government &#8211; but you can have my assurances as Domestic Minister that your trust in MIA is well placed. We will not disappoint you with the gold.

May Meleet, the RNG, and all the gods of Iron smile on you in your war.

All the best,
General_W, Domestic Minister

Looks like Engineering is finally on the way!

 

[peter grimes]

I'm not going to hold my breath

It's very satisfying when a well-crafted letter gets the desired response. It's also satisfying to be able to spend a little gold hurting KISS

 

[fe3333au]

memo from Foreign Offices ...

Inter-Department Memo

The Great Big Cheese to the Office of Pigeon Wrangling.

In lieu of recent developments, ALL monkeys are forbidden to play with the pigeons, recently a pigeon was dispatched to my mother in law inviting her to stay a week!!!

Imagine what would happen if an international bird was released.

Thank you

Feaurius III
Elected Term 6 Foreign Minister (and nomination for Term 7)

All I'm requesting is a general ease off on talking MIA with others or sending off letters ... this is Foreign Offices territory.

 

[General_W]

Sorry Fe!

I just knew it'd be a while before someone could respond, and I didn't want TNT getting jumpy about their gold.

I did mention that I "am not speaking officially for my government" - but I've now been properly warned.

No more pigeon meddling for me.