TNT Files - Term 6

[General_W]

And the game changes dramatically...

(This just in to our team mail box)

Greetings to our only Friends across the sea:

There is very disturbing news from our east coast. A contingent of ten Gallic swordsmen have landed on the coast near Furbomb. I've not looked at the save but Strider posted a screenshot so it appears legit. Now that I think of it I think they demanded ivory last turn. I thought they were offering to trade us ivory so I ignored it. Oops! The Galls also sent us a formal declaration of war. Not only was the attack timed to coincide with some Idiot holy day (April Fool's Day) it also matches the ending of our peace treaty with the Iroqi. I am not sure if the Iroqi have also attacked or not. That doesn't matter so much since the Gallic force is quite enough to turn the Republic of Iron into mush. The bulk of our defenses are in the south. Our puny offensive capabilities are out barb hunting.

Anyway, even without looking at the save they will take Furbomb which is undefended. Then they have access to roads (and two movement points) to move up to other undefended cities. They have a good chance of taking Dancing Banana. I guess the Iroqi will take advantage of the situation and attack our southern holdings.

I see no hope for a military defense. Unless you can convince the Idiots to spare us I fear this will soon be a three sided game. It is a shame because I was looking forward to building the Great Library and expanding upon our cultural lead. It appears we live in a savage world where libraries and temples must give way to barracks and swordsmen.

signed
donsig IV (aka donsig The Last)
President of the Republic of Iron
Herediatary Grand Vizeer of the Ironic and Iroqi Peoples

Whatever shall we do?!?
KISS moved much faster than I expected.

It's probably too much to hope that this is a cruel April 1st joke.

 

[Chamnix]

Well, crap. I really didn’t expect KISS to do that. I still think it may be a mistake by KISS, but that doesn’t help us any.

What do we do? Obviously, TNT should turn off research, forget the Great Library and do as much damage, I mean, fight for their survival as hard as they can. If they still have a peace offer on the table from Dnuts, sign it! And preferably make it much longer than 5 turns. Despite our earlier discussion, I’m not too sure of the usefulness of opening a second front against Dnuts now – it sounds like KISS will decimate TNT regardless (10 Gallic Swords can turn them to mush?! Sheesh!).

I think we feed techs to TNT if we come across anything useful (any chance they’ll still be around by Gunpowder?), and if they lose their iron source or something, we can provide extra, but basically I think we prepare to play a 3-sided game. We will have the least land of the 3, but probably the most developed towns, and we will be the only ones with a Golden Age remaining. KISS will be the most vulnerable with towns on both continents.

We just have to ensure that it doesn’t turn into a 2 against 1 with us being the odd man out. We could be a target because of our tech lead, but we have to be able to convince Dnuts that attacking us makes them lose – KISS would gain our land and would then own our entire continent and part of Dnuts continent.

Other than that, I don’t really see much we can do. Unfortunately, our teammates are the weakest team. The practical problem I see now is securing a source of wines (or some other luxury). Obviously there will be a lot of ivory up for grabs, and that is our only tradable commodity.

 

[General_W]

Seems like if we slow our research and funnel a bunch of gold to TNT, they ought to be able to cash-rush enough pikes to stop 10 Gallic swords.
Granted - it's probably just the first wave, but with our economic aid... TNT should at least have a fighting chance.

No?

 

[General_W]

This just in to my PM...

Dear MIA,

As you already know, from donsig's earlier message, KISS has declared war with us. However, it will be tough to defeat them due to their landing in such large numbers (8 Gallic Swords) and the fact 80% of our defenses are in and around the Sacred Jungle. If we are to win this war, we will need your aid. We can defend our lands for a little while, but if they keep sending soldiers for a prolonged period of time, we will probably fall.

Thus, we are requesting a formal alliance, and ask of you to sign it immediately. The Galls have 8 Gaillics in our lands right now, but there is a good chance they have more soldiers waiting in Gallies near our shores. We believe their defenses are weak in their homeland, so an attack by your armies should be able to weaken them. If you were to attack and take some of their land, their production capablilities will plummet and we will be saved. It would also help you directly, for KISS would be permeantly weakend and you would gain some valuable territory. Thus, we are hoping, as our faithful allies, you will help us in this time of crisis. If our two peoples work together, we can defeat the backstabbing, foolhardy Galls.

One last thing. Due to the war, my people badly need the knowledge of Chivalry at this time. If you could please send over the technology of Chivlary next turn, it would be much appreciated.

Please respond soon.

Bye for now.

greekguy, TNT Greek Ambassador

 

[Chamnix]

Two Gallic Swords died already .

Anyway, we will certainly send them Chivalry (and it would be a nice gesture on their part if they were to send Engineering with accept!!). With economic aid, we can doubtless help them fight off KISS alone, but unless TNT signs a reasonably long peace deal with Dnuts, the Dnuts will certainly join in the fun, and we will be pouring money down the drain that would be better spent on ourselves to prepare for the game's next stage.

I think we need to know if they can sign peace with Dnuts before we start spending money.

We really shouldn't leave them hanging long in their time of desperation - I think what is called for is at least an immediate message that of course they can have Chivalry (can they please send Engineering now too?) and our generals are discussing options. If it's not already obvious to them, a long-term peace with Dnuts should be signed by them immediately if at all possible.

 

[fe3333au]

My my ... how the pigeons do fly on the day of fools

This sent ... by greekguy on on 2nd April 09.10am

Dear MIA,

My people have accepted your treaty regarding the Great Library and your proposed permanent peace treaty. For reference, I'll put the final treaty (as you sent it to us) in this PM.

Part I – Great Library Treaty
1. Chivalry & Engineering
a) MIA will provide Chivalry to TNT anytime upon request. TNT
can have it immediately following the signing of this document if
desired, or they can build horsemen for upgrade first.

b) TNT will provide MIA with Engineering as soon as this treaty is
signed.

2. TNT will build the Great Library.
TNT guarantees completion of the Great Library no later than
turn 155 if nobody else completes it before then. If TNT fails to
build the Great Library by turn 155 and no one else has built the
Great Library then TNT will pay MIA a penalty fee of 300 gold. This
penalty need not be paid all at once but payment must be completed by
turn 185. (Note: if this point is actually reached and TNT is close to
completing the Great Library then MIA agrees to be reasonable about an
extension of this agreement.)

3. Use of the Great Library
TNT will provide MIA any or all techs obtained from the Great
Library immediately upon MIA's request.

4. Provision for if TNT is attacked
If TNT is attacked by KISS or the Doughnuts before TNT
completes the Great Library then TNT reserves the right to nullify
this agreement. If TNT chooses to nullify the agreement then TNT will
pay MIA 300 gold per technology that MIA gives to TNT. MIA will give
TNT all the techs MIA currently has when TNT is attacked – unless TNT
wishes to delay the receipt of these techs. Payment need not be made
all at once and the total is not due until 30 turns after TNT is again
at peace.

5. Provision for if TNT is beaten to the Great Library
If the Great Library is completed by Dnuts or KISS before TNT
and before turn 155, then MIA will provide TNT all techs researched by
MIA up to that point and TNT will provide MIA with 300 gold per
technology that MIA provides to TNT.
TNT will not be required to provide all of the gold until 30 turns
following the gifting of the techs.

6. Safety of the Great Library
TNT guarantees the safety of the Great Library. Until both
Dnuts and KISS have Education, TNT guarantees that the town containing
the Great Library will not be captured. If there are at least as many
enemy units within striking range of the Great Library town as there
are defenders in the town, then TNT agrees to abandon the Great
Library town rather than risk it falling into enemy hands.

7. Technology Trade Limits
None of the techs provided by TNT to MIA may be traded sold or
gifted to any other civ by MIA and none of the techs provided by MIA
to TNT may be traded sold or gifted to any other civ by TNT.

8. End of the Great Library Treaty
Upon the earlier of the Great Library being neutralized by
Dnuts or KISS reaching Education, or once the Great Library provides
Military Tradition, MIA will give TNT all Middle Age techs that MIA
has researched at that point. MIA guarantees to provide at least as
many Middle Age techs to TNT as TNT provided to MIA from the Great
Library. If MIA has not completed enough techs to repay TNT in full at
that point, then MIA will continue to give techs to TNT as soon as
they are completed until payment is satisfied.

Part II – Peace Treaty
TNT and MIA hereby also agree to a sweeping peace deal of
mutual non-aggression and military cooperation.
* TNT and MIA units will not attack or hinder each other in any way.
TNT and MIA will both seek ways to help the other in all situations.
* This peace deal stands alone from any agreements regarding the Great
Library. While the Great Library deal will end (either by completion
of the successful conclusion of the treaty or by less desirable means)
this peace deal will not expire until the Modern Era.
* It may only be pre-maturely canceled by 15 turns written notice to
the other team.

NOTE: You will be receiving another message concerning a very imporant matter very soon (In a day or less).

Bye for now.

greekguy, TNT Greek Ambassador

Quickly followed by this ... by greekguy on 2nd April 11.04am

Dear MIA,

As you already know, from donsig's earlier message, KISS has declared war with us. However, it will be tough to defeat them due to their landing in such large numbers (8 Gallic Swords) and the fact 80% of our defenses are in and around the Sacred Jungle. If we are to win this war, we will need your aid. We can defend our lands for a little while, but if they keep sending soldiers for a prolonged period of time, we will probably fall.

Thus, we are requesting a formal alliance, and ask of you to sign it immediately. The Galls have 8 Gaillics in our lands right now, but there is a good chance they have more soldiers waiting in Gallies near our shores. We believe their defenses are weak in their homeland, so an attack by your armies should be able to weaken them. If you were to attack and take some of their land, their production capablilities will plummet and we will be saved. It would also help you directly, for KISS would be permeantly weakend and you would gain some valuable territory. Thus, we are hoping, as our faithful allies, you will help us in this time of crisis. If our two peoples work together, we can defeat the backstabbing, foolhardy Galls.

One last thing. Due to the war, my people badly need the knowledge of Chivalry at this time. If you could please send over the technology of Chivlary next turn, it would be much appreciated.

Please respond soon.

Bye for now.

greekguy, TNT Greek Ambassador

grudging admiration for KISS I guess ...


Possible Action ...

1. We get Engineering for Chivalry I guess it the better option for us now.

2. Send some units and have them positioned near the Lux city ... which we block from KISS taking and if worst comes to worse ... TNT let us take it.

No One on AIM at the moment

 

[fe3333au]

I have decide to send this ... as these pleas for assistance seem urgent and I wish to show TNT that we treat their situation with urgency.

Title ... MIA Official Quick Responce

Hi greekguy

We are treating the situation you are in with urgency and seriousness, however it is also the time for pranks

Therefore to indicate that the picture is indeed as dire as you indicate , we request that you send us Engineering with ACCEPT and we will in turn send you Chivalry ... for if the last set of messages were not influenced by the date ... things have become 'interesting' (in a Chinese sense) for you and you will have need for knights.

Our team is discussing options to assist you, although the tyranny of distance makes thing difficult for immediate action of any kind.

Sincerely

Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister

AIM = fe3333au

Sent to TNT g-mail and PM to greekguy and donsig

 

[fe3333au]

Just to clarify ... I am well aware that KISS declared War on TNT prior to attacking as per the rules of the game.

 

[Chamnix]

Well, if TNT wants the treaty then OK, but it is pretty much a waste of parchment now. TNT obviously should not be working on the Great Library now. What I think the treaty boils down to now is:

1. Chivalry for Engineering.
2. Peace (and we will seek ways to help each other).
3. TNT can buy all the techs we have now (none) for 300 gold each.

 

[General_W]

New in from TNT
(recieved in my PM)

Hello to our friends and allies.

Unfortunately, this is no joke. We've requested an extension for our turn in order to prepare battle plans, as I believe you can see. In complete honesty, the Galls have caught us with our pants down AND our shirt off. However, we are far from defenseless.

We will have 7 new and shiny Immortals at our disposal next turn. In a small span of 5 turns we may have well over a dozen. Our production capabilities will far out match anything they can throw at us. Our treasury is large enough to rush a great number of units, and we plan on spending as much money as possible to train brave Ironic people to fight the Galls. They will tremble in fear at the raw power they have awakened.

TNT, if we do fall, will guarantee that the foreign invaders take a dozen blows to each of ours. We are determined to make the Galls pay for every move they make. If the war on our continent turns in our favor, then we will take the battle to the gallic homeland. This treachery must not go unpunished and we will bring justice down upon them. The Wrath of Meelet will be unleashed on the foolish, arrogant, unsophisticated Galls.

However, we are not arrogant, unlike the Galls. The war is winnable without aid, but the chances are far to close for our liking. The Galls have 8 Gallic swordsmen on our continent and we believe that they have even more on the way. 8 Gallic swordsmen is no small army and if they have upwards of a dozen on the way, then we're betting their homeland is pretty defenseless at the moment. Now would be the perfect time for MIA to strike at their hostile northern neighbors.

An attack by your armies on the Galls will aid us greatly, drawing critical reinforcements from our front. Not only that, but it would be a perfect time to strike while you have an ally capable of supporting you. We can deal with the influx of Gallic swords for the time being, but if they continue to land soldiers on our shores, we will eventually be overmatched. If you were to invade the KISS homeland, their production centers will be threatened, and their newly built units would have to defend their cities, instead of attacking ours. The Galls have already proven that they are hostile, would you rather meet them in the field of battle by yourselves, or with an ally?

If you do decide that war is not in your nation's interest at this time, we do understand. Whatever aid you can give us, be it technological, financial, or military would be greatly appreciated. Gold would be very welcome, as our Immortals are stronger than the Gallic swordsmen, cheaper, and easy to build. We plan on using as much gold as possible to rush Immortals and Pikemen.

We do have an additional problem. The Iroqi to our Southern borders have never been "friendly." A few years ago, Iroqi Mounted Warriors moved dangerously close to our borders. We requested that they be removed, and the Iroqi did comply to that request. This leads us to believe that the attack was not a coordinated effort between the Galls and the Iroqi. However, if the Iroqi decide to take advantage of the Gallic attack we would be in a very difficult predicament. If the Iroqi do decide to attack us, we would be destroyed, unless you come to our aid.

May be as strong allies in war, as we were in peace.

Please reply soon.

Bye for now.

greekguy, TNT Greek Ambassador

I think we should certainly help them... but I don't think breaking our word to KISS is probably the way to do it

We could promise to attack the nuts if they attack TNT?
(I don't really like that either... but we need to decide what we're willing to do)

 

[Chamnix]

I think we should be honest with them about KISS - we just signed a long-term peace deal (no need to mention how long-term), and we are a team of our word, so attacking them is unfortunately out of the question.

I think TNT and MIA need to convince DNuts not to attack TNT. We need to communicate to Dnuts that we will not sit idly by while TNT is destroyed, and we are not permitted to attack KISS, so if they attack TNT, then we won't have a lot of options. On the other side, we need to communicate to TNT that they really need to do whatever is necessary to secure a long-term peace with Dnuts - even to the extent of giving Dnuts a town or two on the southern edge of their empire. TNT should understand that if Dnuts attack them, then even if we attack Dnuts, TNT will lose those towns regardless, so if they can get guaranteed peace by giving them away, then it is worthwhile.

 

[General_W]

Brilliant!

This is the way to go - imho. If it works, it may be even better than having the GL! KISS mired in war! Oh the glory.
(maybe we could even start to build the GL ourselves... and if everyone gets Education, just switch to something else? But now I'm off topic.)

Anyway - we need to try to get TNT to see reason on giving up some towns for peace, and talk to Dnuts and give them the old Stick and Carrot routine.
Stick = If you attack TNT, something really unfortunate may happen.
Carrot = We're trying to get TNT to give up some towns so that you get a good deal in the peace process also.

 

[fe3333au]

We could also send somegalleys up to the hot zone to hamper the KISS armarda ... and land some units to act as blockers.

Perhaps Defence should open a new thread to consolidate all these discussions?

I am a little unsure how to react to this diplomatically.

Points to address in the reply (and possible chat)

1. The last letter indicated Engineering for Chivalry that is a obvious first move.
2. Explain that we cannot get physical with KISS ... however that also means that KISS cannot (without breaking the treaty) touch us, we have immunity from KISS and possibly should use this to our advantage.
3. Cash, we could send them gold ... but how much and for how long? ... what do we get out of it?
4. Perhaps if we land units near some lux towns, TNT will prefer to gift us the towns (which we would be in a position to defend) rather than let it fall to the enemy.
5. We could try to persuade TNT not to enter the fray (however this would only work if we would be prepared to back up our words with steel)

Am I missing any options?

Other than joining in the TNT free for all ?!!

 

[Chamnix]

I wouldn't offer cash just yet - we may give them cash, but I want to make sure they get peace with Dnuts first. I don't think giving us luxury towns is a real option right now - we are nowhere close to being able to defend them. Blockers also may be an option, but it would take too long to be of any immediate aid to TNT.

For right now, tell TNT:

1. Chivalry for Engineering is a done deal. We will also guarantee peace from MIA, but obviously they should not be building the Great Library now.

2. We cannot attack KISS, so it is imperative that they secure a long-term peace with the Dnuts. We will try to help persuade Dnuts to accept peace, but even if TNT has to give up a town or two for peace, it will be worth it since they cannot defend everything anyway.

 

[peter grimes]

Defense does not think sending units up to the TNT homeland is a good idea right now. At one point I counted the turns it would take, and it was well over 10.

But I do think that when we talk to DNUTs, we should have a visible presence on their map: two galleys angling for their squishy coastline, but not entering their territory.

Everyone now has Knights, so I'm not in favor of invading DNUTs. Let's negotiate as much as we can with the threat of force, stopping just short of committing troops overseas. The last thing we want to do is get embroiled in war production during our symmetry time!

 

[fe3333au]

Draft ... of a letter that will not give them much comfort.

Dear greekguy

It is with shock and dismay that we receive your news of war with KISS.

Unfortunately, we have only just signed the peace treaty that we were persuing for our own nation's security and therefore cannot 'distract' KISS in any manner that would assist you in the short term.

All we are able to do immediately is swap Chivalry for Engineering.

We can also guarantee that we will not join KISS in their actions against you and are discussing many options in which we can indirectly assist your cause.

We urge you to try and secure a long term peace with the Doughnuts, even if it means the surrendering of territory or cities. We in turn will do our utmost to peruade the Nutters that this is in their best interest.

In the longer term of your war with KISS, we would only be able to irritate them by having units and ships attempt to block their way. However this will do no more than slightly stall their advance and perhaps give them greater reason to rage onto you.

I am assuming that the Great Library has been abandoned, if not then do so and see to your defence.

We feel somewhat impotent at this stage but know this, we are exploring every avenue possible to aid you in your time of need.

May the great Meleet grant you boon in futire military action against the unbelievers.


Sincerely yours


Feaurius III
Foreign Minister MIA.

Thoughts for edit ... as I want to send this off soon

 

[Black_Hole]

if we still want to keep our word, can't we give 15 turns notice then cancle the peace treaty?
if TNT can last 15 turns, then it will be 2 on 1 unless the DNUTs step in

 

[Chamnix]

Letter looks good to me.

@peter grimes - nobody else has knights. Chivalry is currently an MIA monopoly.

@Black Hole - the 15 turns was proposed in our peace deal with TNT. Our KISS deal has no similar escape clause - we guaranteed peace until 165.

 

[peter grimes]

@Chamnix - right you are! I was confusing it with Feudalism.

About the letter: I wonder if we should be more forthcoming about the gold issue. I don't want to give them any money at all if they don't have a secure peace with DNUTs. If that is the position of the team, then we need to be clear in our communication with TNT on the gold issue.

I also think we should remind them that they are not permitted to trade Chivalry for Peace. They must acknowledge that before recieving it - diplomatically it may be better for them to not have Chivalry, because they obviously can't give up something they don't even have.

 

[Chamnix]

Well, they cannot trade Chivalry immediately anyway because nobody else has Monotheism, and they cannot trade Monotheism. I guess they could promise someone Chivalry once they get Monotheism, but I'm not sure we should deny them that anyway. I think we should make them check with us before offering it, but if Chivalry is the price of peace with Dnuts, then it may be worth it.