TNT Files Term 7 - 9
- Thread starter fe3333au
- Start date
Reposted for reference:
Regarding KISS' military, TNT is in a better position to figure out how much KISS has since TNT just went from weak to average against them - we could give them a link to the military advisor article if they don't know where it is.
The only specifics we know are a couple regular warriors visible on mountains, and the only other units I remember seeing are Gallic Swords - if they built any spearmen or anything else, I don't remember noticing them.
Regarding KISS' military, TNT is in a better position to figure out how much KISS has since TNT just went from weak to average against them - we could give them a link to the military advisor article if they don't know where it is.
The only specifics we know are a couple regular warriors visible on mountains, and the only other units I remember seeing are Gallic Swords - if they built any spearmen or anything else, I don't remember noticing them.
We've never seen a Celtic Spearman, as far as I know.
I'd be happy to run the calculation for them. All we'd need is for them to send us a list of precisely how many units of each type they have, and their experience level
I'd be happy to run the calculation for them. All we'd need is for them to send us a list of precisely how many units of each type they have, and their experience level
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Ahh… our dear friends TNT.
They're so eager for us to manipulate them… I almost feel guilty… ok… not really.
Anyway – no matter what happens with the Dnuts… I think we want to start TNT down the road of researching Monarchy (maybe at just 30% or so?) while they stockpile gold and get ready for a massive fight with either KISS or the Dnuts. (Fight KISS if we can swing the Nuts our way… if not… then maybe they can get peace with KISS and fight the Nuts. Either way is pretty good actually. We could even join a fight against the Nutters after TNT absorbs the brunt of the Nuts counter-attack.)
We'll supply the tech they need… they give us Luxuries and do the heavy lifting in any fighting. (and give us any tech they manage to acquire in their slow-burn [if any] research)
I also suggest we ask TNT to keep their friendship with us quiet until we're ready to really spring a trap on either KISS or the Nuts. No point in tipping our hand early.
But I don't see any harm in telling them that we're pretty much focused on getting our infrastructure up and roaring… make them feel confident in relying on us for their technology needs.
That's my 2 cents anyway.
They're so eager for us to manipulate them… I almost feel guilty… ok… not really.
Anyway – no matter what happens with the Dnuts… I think we want to start TNT down the road of researching Monarchy (maybe at just 30% or so?) while they stockpile gold and get ready for a massive fight with either KISS or the Dnuts. (Fight KISS if we can swing the Nuts our way… if not… then maybe they can get peace with KISS and fight the Nuts. Either way is pretty good actually. We could even join a fight against the Nutters after TNT absorbs the brunt of the Nuts counter-attack.)
We'll supply the tech they need… they give us Luxuries and do the heavy lifting in any fighting. (and give us any tech they manage to acquire in their slow-burn [if any] research)
I also suggest we ask TNT to keep their friendship with us quiet until we're ready to really spring a trap on either KISS or the Nuts. No point in tipping our hand early.
But I don't see any harm in telling them that we're pretty much focused on getting our infrastructure up and roaring… make them feel confident in relying on us for their technology needs.
That's my 2 cents anyway.
I don't see any reason for TNT to research Monarchy - we don't want Monarchy, and if they are not going to research for us, then I would rather have them give their gold to us for techs instead of researching something we don't need. If they get to the point where Republic is untenable for them, then they probably won't be able to afford the anarchy switching to Monarchy either.
Screw Monarchy - didn't we determine that Feudalism is the preferable gov for war-mongering with many small towns?!
We could trade for Monarchy in a single turn, if we determined that we wanted it. I think TNT should turn off research all together (maybe just hire a couple scientists). The more gold they spend against KISS, the less we have to!
We could trade for Monarchy in a single turn, if we determined that we wanted it. I think TNT should turn off research all together (maybe just hire a couple scientists). The more gold they spend against KISS, the less we have to!
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Wait a second - before we dismiss Monarchy totally...
Feudalism is only best for a warmonger if you have a lot of small towns and no cash.
Monarchy is superior for a cash-rich empire.
If TNT isn't doing any significant research – then they’ll be cash rich.
In Feudalism, all their money won’t do them any good at all. Monarchy will allow them to cash rush what they need… and still provides 2-4-8 support… leaving them some incentive to grow their towns.
Feudalism also suffers from “low” war weariness… while Monarchy has none.
And with no science to fall behind on while in anarchy… I think Monarchy starts to look like a pretty appealing choice for TNT. (TNT should be able to build more than enough defense while researching Monarchy to be totally safe during their period of anarchy)
Monarchy only costs 720 beakers now – so TNT should be able to pick it up in a reasonable amount of time. Or if there’s a trade option where we don’t give too much away… then that’s a possibility I suppose.
It just seems like Monarchy will make more sense for TNT if we’re starting a long-term strategy where we research and TNT fights.
No?
Feudalism is only best for a warmonger if you have a lot of small towns and no cash.
Monarchy is superior for a cash-rich empire.
If TNT isn't doing any significant research – then they’ll be cash rich.
In Feudalism, all their money won’t do them any good at all. Monarchy will allow them to cash rush what they need… and still provides 2-4-8 support… leaving them some incentive to grow their towns.
Feudalism also suffers from “low” war weariness… while Monarchy has none.
And with no science to fall behind on while in anarchy… I think Monarchy starts to look like a pretty appealing choice for TNT. (TNT should be able to build more than enough defense while researching Monarchy to be totally safe during their period of anarchy)
Monarchy only costs 720 beakers now – so TNT should be able to pick it up in a reasonable amount of time. Or if there’s a trade option where we don’t give too much away… then that’s a possibility I suppose.
It just seems like Monarchy will make more sense for TNT if we’re starting a long-term strategy where we research and TNT fights.
No?
I must have been mistaken. I thought that the advantage of Feudalism was that there was superior unit support for towns viz-a-viz monarchy, and cash rushing was still available. If cash-rushing is not available, well, obviously that changes things dramatically.
But I'm not sure TNT should research anything at all. If we determine that it is in MIA's best interest for TNT to be in a Monarchy to fight KISS, then we should make sure that TNT gets Monarchy. That will help MIA (and hurt KISS) more than it helps TNT. In fact, TNT switching to a Monarchy virtually ensures (and insures!) our Dominance.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Here's the breakdown on TNT's government choices:
Republic (current)
Feudalism (have tech)
Monarchy (need tech)
From that, I think you can see why I get excited thinking about TNT in a Monarchy form of government.
Hope that helps!
Republic (current)
Military Police: 0
Corruption: nusiance
Free Unit Support: 1-3-4 (town-city-metro)
Rushing: Gold
War Weary: Low
Other: Units cost 2 gold, +1 commerce
Corruption: nusiance
Free Unit Support: 1-3-4 (town-city-metro)
Rushing: Gold
War Weary: Low
Other: Units cost 2 gold, +1 commerce
Feudalism (have tech)
Military Police: 3
Corruption: Problematic
Free Unit Support: 5-2-1 (town-city-metro)
Rushing: Forced Labor
War Weary: Low
Other: Units cost 3 gold
Corruption: Problematic
Free Unit Support: 5-2-1 (town-city-metro)
Rushing: Forced Labor
War Weary: Low
Other: Units cost 3 gold
Monarchy (need tech)
Military Police: 3
Corruption: Problematic
Free Unit Support: 2-4-8 (town-city-metro)
Rushing: Gold
War Weary: None
Other: Units cost 1 gold
Corruption: Problematic
Free Unit Support: 2-4-8 (town-city-metro)
Rushing: Gold
War Weary: None
Other: Units cost 1 gold
From that, I think you can see why I get excited thinking about TNT in a Monarchy form of government.
Hope that helps!
fe3333au
Deity
Good points about the Government type ... it will be a point to discuss when we have the caht with greekguy.
I certainly agree with peter grimes that if TNT should be in Monarchy, then we should obtain it for them somehow - there is still no reason to research it themselves.
I'm also not really convinced that it is best for them. It is hard to imagine them taking on KISS long-term, and in the short-term, the advantages of Monarchy will not outweigh the anarchy period.
BTW, if they went to Feudalism (I'm not saying they should do that either), then they should disconnect iron, build warriors, and reconnect iron to spend their cash upgrading warriors to immortals. And, yes, they could be doing that now - it is cheaper than cash-rushing immortals directly, but the fact that they have only 10 workers makes it difficult.
I'm also not really convinced that it is best for them. It is hard to imagine them taking on KISS long-term, and in the short-term, the advantages of Monarchy will not outweigh the anarchy period.
BTW, if they went to Feudalism (I'm not saying they should do that either), then they should disconnect iron, build warriors, and reconnect iron to spend their cash upgrading warriors to immortals. And, yes, they could be doing that now - it is cheaper than cash-rushing immortals directly, but the fact that they have only 10 workers makes it difficult.
fe3333au
Deity
great idea
fe3333au
Deity
Unofficial chatting
donsigw: good afternoon
fe3333au: hi ... just logged on ... how you
Military Victory
donsigw: ok - we killed Scoutsout tonight ... lost a regular immortal though
fe3333au: scoutsout was a what?
donsigw: a vet Gallic swordsman
donsigw: we also cleared two barb camps
New Trade
donsigw: and sent you gems ... thanks for the furs
fe3333au: no problemo
When will proposal come
fe3333au: Any idea when greekguy will be sending us your proposal?
donsigw: who knows ... what proposal are you waiting on?
fe3333au: he said he was sending a peace agreement type of document
donsigw: oh - haven't seen anything official looking in our forum yet
fe3333au: 1 sec let me check ... he sent a letter on 21st April and said wanted to chat about our information on KISS and he would draft official peace treaty
donsigw: I'll remind him that we're supposed to be sending a formal peace treaty
donsigw: are we just agreeing to peace with nothing special? what kind of time limit?
fe3333au: also tell him to post a time he wants to chat ... may gen others involved if he wants
donsigw: time limit = duration of peace treaty
donsigw: ok will do
fe3333au: sorry a time and day he wants to chat
fe3333au: that way we can get some questions and ideas talked about over at MIA ... make it a good chat that covers many topics
Research Strategy wanted
donsigw: ok - we need to get a dialogue going about our research and the Science Alliance again
donsigw: currently we can do theology in 16 or invention in 20 ... will have more libraries and some rebuilt cities soon whcih should improve tose numbers ... also more luxes to lower our lux rate ... we're still on 10 per cent lux
Total TNT Luxes
fe3333au: how many luxes you got hooked?
donsigw: we have gems, ivory and incense plus the furs from you ... have one more jungle tile to road for silks ... then if we rush a library we'll get wines in our borders and can road it up
< Options for Nutter treaty >
donsigw: but we might try to get wines from the Nutters for incense and peace ...
fe3333au: good idea ... I think that would be a wise move ... with only KISS to deal with ... you will be in a good position
Need for Invention
donsigw: I hope you guys are researching invention ... we need to get to gunpowder and military tradition before the bad guys
fe3333au: We will have Education in 2 turns
donsigw: then you will go to inventi9on?
fe3333au: probably ... as soon as we chat with greekguy we can work out a good research plan
Want other techs
donsigw: what do you guys want for theology (I know you can't answer that right now - but please bring it up and tell us what you want - it will speed up negotiations)
fe3333au: ok I'll bring it up
donsigw: we're going to want to buy education, too
fe3333au: yes ... I'm thinking that when we make a deal it will cover all those things ... also may help you guys out if you concentrate on cash so you can fight KISS
Theology - option to trade to Nuts for Peace
fe3333au: would you want to offer it to Nuts?
donsigw: I don't want to give any techs to the Nuts or Galls ... do you guys want to give it to the Nutters?
fe3333au: I personally feel uncomfortable with the KISS/Nut friendship ... they are giving each other tech as soon as one researches it
donsigw: yes, that's what we need to do ... eg. Monotheism
donsigw: we = TNT and MIA
fe3333au: yes
TNT uneasy about not researching
donsigw: but that's difficult to do when we are not researching...
fe3333au: But us supporting you to fend off invaders is essential as well
donsigw: Doesn't seem to be much of an invasion anymore ... they are not evenin sight ... we move close and they pillage roads and retreat
fe3333au: I nervous about a second wave ... we are sending a ship up with passenger to help spot KISS
donsigw: good - we're about to stop making immortals and concentrate on pikes
War Strategy
donsigw: we're moving a stack toward where they laned to eliminate them while trying to build defenses along our coast and in the south
fe3333au: we had an idea ... to make cheaper units for you 1 sec
donsigw: we've got nice walled cities in the south, stocked with pikes
fe3333au: you are Republic ... yes?
donsigw: yes, we're a republic
fe3333au: I'll post an interesting idea Chamnix came up with
donsigw: ok
fe3333au: if they went to Feudalism (I'm not saying they should do that either), then they should disconnect iron, build warriors, and reconnect iron to spend their cash upgrading warriors to immortals. And, yes, they could be doing that now - it is cheaper than cash-rushing immortals directly, but the fact that they have only 10 workers makes it difficult.
donsigw: we're not even rushing military units now
fe3333au: in case you need to
Other Military talk
donsigw: we are avg compared to you but weak compared to Galls (also we're strong compared to Nuts)
fe3333au: we STRONG vs Nuts and AVERAGE vs KISS and you
donsigw: if you're avg to both us then we must be close to their trength
fe3333au: which is your strength
donsigw: we are weak to KISS but avg to you
Where KISS Navy?
fe3333au: do you know where KISS' navy is atm? ... cos if they are still in sight it would suggest that they are just playing
donsigw: don't know where their navy is
KISS and TNT Diplomacy
donsigw: BCLG has been chatting with KISS - says they want something for peace or we keep the war going
donsigw: but they don't seem to want to fight ... BCLG says they threatened to go to monarchy if war weariness sets in ... I think that's a bluff - they don't want monarchy because they will not be able to keep up with you ... I thik we can out last them war weariness wise becasue we have more luxes
fe3333au: exactly ... call their bluff ... it also implies that they don't know how tight we are... especially if we can help with cash or something
donsigw: yep
fe3333au: In fact I'd love for KISS to swap to Monarchy LOL
BCLG needs knackering
donsigw: BCLG wants us to get chivalry from you so we can give it to KISS for peace
fe3333au: NO !!!
fe3333au: No trading tech with KISS !!!
donsigw: I said you guys wouldn't want to give us chivalry to give to KISS - I hope I am right about that
fe3333au: x-post
donsigw: yes - I see I was right
<Must mention anti-KISS sentiment to greekguy>
donsigw: make sure you tell greekguy you don't want us giving chivalry to kiss
Our true relationship is hidden
fe3333au: What I like is the KISS and therefore Nuts are unaware of our friendship .. we should keep it that way ... surprise them
donsigw: sounds good to me
fe3333au: Also shows that KISS are willing to attck you more .. are your coastal cities defended?
Research Partner worries
donsigw: but what can we do about techs? ... if we get too far behind you then we'll not be much of a research partner
Defences
donsigw: we have some defenses and are working on pikes ... we're pilling gold in case we have to rush a bunch of units ... that way we can rush close to where they land
fe3333au: We can help there ... we can slip you techs you need ... which will imply that you are researching it yourselves ... but in fact you are reasearching slowly important techs that are needed
donsigw: at this point we're willing ot work on whatever tech you guys want us to
fe3333au: It will confuse them, thinking you are reasearching stuff yourselves
donsigw: but you are the ones who need to go to invention - gunpowder - etc
fe3333au: yes understand
fe3333au: Education gives us Universities ... which make reasearch quicker in the big picture
donsigw: yes - we need those universities, too
fe3333au: at the moment defence is prime to you ... don't worry we will both step into the next era together
Future Options
donsigw: how about after education you guys do invention, we make some deal where you give us theology (for silks?) and then we work on printing press? ... then we trade printing press for education
fe3333au: I will relay for consideration ... sounds good
donsigw: at that point we take a look and one of us goes doe banking and the other for gunpowder ... then we go for democracy and chemistry between the two of us ... then your fifty turns will be up and you ambush thw Galls.
fe3333au: sounds like a plan ... maybe both of us together
donsigw: we'll keep jabbing 'em for 50 turns then you guys knock 'em out
Nutters are a concern
fe3333au: Depends what Nuts are upto ... your peace with Nuts runs out in 4 turns .. yes?
donsigw: I'm not sure when our peace with them is up
TNT think Nuts could join in KISS sack
donsigw: we'll get them to join in - promise them the can sack the Gall's capital
fe3333au: maybe ... but until I get more intel, I don't trust Nuts ... they have a deal with KISS
donsigw: We've got some units down south and we are strong compared to them so we're not really worried about them ... also trying to bribe them with a lux ... but they built that city and got their own gems ... so we rushed a library and will have those gems back in a few turns
fe3333au: That sounds good ... they seem to be weakest of teams atm
donsigw: then they will either attack us or take our bribe
Cities
fe3333au: So you got 15 cities?
donsigw: no, only 13 (well, 3 cities and 10 towns)
fe3333au: That is better than Nuts
donsigw: we abandoned three towns as the Galls advanced
donsigw: we have a settler that will build a city in a turn or two and we'll have another settler in two turns
fe3333au: That's great
donsigw: we need to clear out eh Galls rom th eeast so we can rebuild our core ... then we have to make sure we have enough pikes to guard them
fe3333au: you seem to be doing it nicely ... thay have many units left?
donsigw: we're not sure
donsigw: they landed ten (that we know of). I think we killed four of them
fe3333au: How is your west coast ... this is whre they may attack again
donsigw: we have no cities on the west coast ... but we have units out there as sentinels
fe3333au: sorry I ment east
donsigw: well, we don't have any cities left on the east coast either ... those are the ones we disbanded ... they are the ones we want to rebuild first
fe3333au: I undersatnd ... they must pay!
donsigw: well, we're working on it
KISS excellent Guerilla Tactics
donsigw: but they fight like the Iroqi - hit and run
fe3333au: yes ... maybe a knight or two could assist ... later
donsigw: We'll keep you posted on our progress
<Signing Off>
donsigw: I've got to end now - it's 4:11 am - time ot go home and get to bed before the sun rises
fe3333au: cya and thanks for chat
What Theology ... but with a caveat of no selling onto KISS ... and maybe Nuts too
donsigw: try to get us a silks for theology deal
donsigw:good night
fe3333au: sleep well
donsigw signed off at 6:14:19 PM.
Interesting - KISS just wanted to start their Golden Age and apparently didn't want a real war. Either that or they thought TNT would collapse quickly and were surprised when TNT briefly made it to average.
Why???? They should be building immortals and horses/knights. All they need is enough offensive units to slaughter KISS landing parties as they arrive - they should not have to defend since their opponent is coming from overseas.
Why the heck would anyone want Printing Press???
I think if they are ready to research again, then they should start Invention. There is nothing else useful that they can do. Once they get Invention, then we can take over the military path. However, if we are going to leave Invention to them, then they have to start soon - we have 41 turns of peace left and 4 techs to Military Tradition after Invention, and we need time to plow through those.
Why???? They should be building immortals and horses/knights. All they need is enough offensive units to slaughter KISS landing parties as they arrive - they should not have to defend since their opponent is coming from overseas.
Why the heck would anyone want Printing Press???
I think if they are ready to research again, then they should start Invention. There is nothing else useful that they can do. Once they get Invention, then we can take over the military path. However, if we are going to leave Invention to them, then they have to start soon - we have 41 turns of peace left and 4 techs to Military Tradition after Invention, and we need time to plow through those.
fe3333au
Deity
I have sent this off
Titled ... Grand Chat
Sent to TNT g-mail
I'm thinking perhaps having a couple of observers from MIA also present.
Titled ... Grand Chat
Sent to TNT g-mail
I'm thinking perhaps having a couple of observers from MIA also present.
azzaman333
meh
fe3333au said:
Give me a time and place and i will endeavour to be there.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Depends on the time, but I might be there.
fe3333au
Deity
Just in from TNT
On a personal note ... have infected tooth
... on my way to see doc for pain killers and anti-biotics ... will be visiting dentist soon.
May need someone to fill in and do negotiations ... feeling like scheiss
greekguy said:Dear MIA,
I am also looking foward to the upcoming chat, and hope it will extend our nations' relationship even further. It is my hope that this chat will result in trading of massive amounts of information and the formation of long term strategies. I agree with your points of discussion and also offer my suggestions to be added to the list (my additions in bold):
Also, my team has a few things regarding the discussion items for you to chew on before the chat.
Proposed Research Strategy: You work on Invention and Gunpowder. You trade us Theology for Silks (when we hook them up in a few turns). We work on Printing Press, then swap Invention or Education for PP.
International Relations: Work to curve KISS power and try to isolate them from rest of world.
Open Sharing of Intel: We are ready to tell you a good deal of info in exchange for the info we ask for.
I will be available for chat on Wednesday, April 26th at 11:30 PM GMT (6:30 PM GMT -5, which is my timezone). If that time doesn't work for you, please tell me when you would be able to chat. Also, I will have an official peace treaty drafted and ready to sign for you in time for the chat.
Bye for now.
greekguy, TNT Greek Ambassador
On a personal note ... have infected tooth
... on my way to see doc for pain killers and anti-biotics ... will be visiting dentist soon.May need someone to fill in and do negotiations ... feeling like scheiss
azzaman333
meh
9:30 am tomorrow... damn. School has blocked all forms of chat. Sorry but i wont be able to fill in, or even be there.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Unfortunately I will not be able to go since it is just before I go to work.
BTW it will be 8:30 your time azza. GG has got it wrong because he is not GMT-4 as a result of DST.
BTW it will be 8:30 your time azza. GG has got it wrong because he is not GMT-4 as a result of DST.
