To nerf or not to nerf?

[pjdodd]

Does a little nerfing go a long way to make a great game? Or does a little nerfing just get on your nerves that the copper/iron resource is just out of reach?

Would you like to see leaders traits nerfed in GOTM? OR wonders nerfed?

Are you of the opinion that if you are going to nerf a game, nerf a lot to make it really out of the ordinary? Would you play a map with a deliberately odd shape and mega-nerfed resources?

I'm planning to dream up some maps for GOTM's but before I start I wanted to guage the opinions concerning nerfing a game...

 

[Lexad]

I can't deny your right to have an opinion. But I believe you're the only person to put this question here - and I believe there is a reason for it.

 

[Vynd]

No nerfing isn't an option in the poll, but that's what I would vote. Really, the question as it is posed is so broad as to be almost meaningless.

 

[Shillen]

Nerfing is one of those words you really have to define. From reading your post you seem to have a unique definition for it. The two ways I know it's generally used are 1) to simplify something so that it's easier and 2) to downgrade something in power.

You seem to be using it to mean making the game harder or altering it in any way from a standard game. Is that how you mean it?

 

[LowtherCastle]

NO nerfing that the Admins and game designers don't do anyway (huts near start).

 

[kcd_swede]

NO nerfing that the Admins and game designers don't do anyway (huts near start).

It sounds like he is talking about some serious MODding, not just "nerfing". Isn't the point to compare with others in playing Civ BtS? If too much is "nerfed", I'd say we were playing something else. Maybe he wants to play Fall From Heaven in a game of the month?

 

[hellwitch]

Well i wont to see a world map for GOTM. Or i think an advanced start for BOTM will be great experience.

 

[pjdodd]

My concept of nerfing is more map orientated, game settings, altering start locations and victory conditions. No nerfing to me is the equivalent of hitting the random button. The few GOTM I've played are more like random maps with clever-dick changes to wrong foot me, I don't feel as they have been "constructed". I like playing the game and not having to play the creator as well and I also like trying something new...the GOTM don't feel new to me. I like changes to be announced upfront, i.e. not like this: no resources just out of reach but you dont find out until it's too late. (Side note: people still complain about resource denial and GOTM designers still do it. My thinking is if you are going to nerf in that way, go for it, don't just tinker irritatingly and think you can slide out of it with a "we wanted a natural feel" rubbish. It's a game, how un-natural is that! Rant over.)

I am defintiely not interested in modding as that means learning and creating units, buildings, wonders etc. I think the game mechanics are essentially sound although to challenge players (especially the "oh immortal is soooooo easy" ones) I'm open to small mechanical changes. But I not sure I'd pitch my maps at that level anyway as my perception of players of that strength is that they are "serious" in the most humourless way and wouldn't want to play un-random (nerfed) maps. I sense the poll has told me this.

To give you some idea of what I mean here are some ideas for games.

1) An always war map, aggressive AI, NO copper or iron on the map.

2) A domination win pangea map where it is ALL jungle (alternative: forest).

3) A domination win but two special islands must be owned to count as a win (else score is (halved)

4) World map, cold war superpowers...space race victory only (extra points for each nuke built!)

5) World map, conquest victory only (must colonise america).

6) Island map, abudant food resources, no hills. Raging barbs on their own larger island (plan - they send out lot of ships).

In addition to the above I'd have a few more advance starts, so the early religions are gone or leave the economy near collapse to challenge players to recover THEN go win. I'd also introduce many extra game rules, such as staying with a civic throughout the game or making victory conditions include capture of something.

I planned to make these maps for my own enjoyment and would only consider submitting them if the interest was there.

 

[MarkM]

So the definition of "nerf" is pretty much anything that changes the default game settings and/or alters things in worldbuilder, short of going in and modding the game xml and dll? Or something approaching that. LOL, that's as specific as running a US presidential election on nothing more specific than "change" ... I'm not sure how anyone could meaningfully vote on this. But I'll just try to induce from examples you give in your last post & not the description you gave, and interpret what you are saying as "scenarios with unique victory conditions, and/or map conditions that are not possible to achieve with delivered game" (which is the case for all but #5), and on that basis, vote no.

I actually like "random maps with clever-dick changes to wrong foot me & don't feel as they have been 'constructed'". In other words, I like playing Civ, not some heavy handed hack of it that changes every month. Sorry.

 

[nokem]

here are some ideas for games.

Sounds like your games belong at Realms Beyond (http://realmsbeyond.net/civ/). They're all about the heavily customised "adventure" settings that you describe.

nokem

 

[Dhoomstriker]

pjdodd, I think that you have some great ideas for scenarios there!

I would love to see you start by making one. Polish it up. Make it really rock.

You can place it over in the Civ4 - Creation & Customization forum. Directly in that forum (you'll have to scroll down past the sub-forums), you'll find a wealth of useful info that will help to motivate you, help you get started, and help you when you can't figure out HOW to make your map/scenario work the way that you want it to.

If you're looking at the level of creating a Scenario, then there's a sub-forum for Civ4 - Scenarios, where you can host your own Scenario. Later, if you get adventurous, you could even make your own mod pack and place it in the Civ4 - Modpacks sub-forum.

The beauty of the Civ4 - Creation & Customization forum is that you'll get a much wider base of Civ4 players than you will just by looking in the GOTM forum. You'll also get access to people who are dedicated to helping with scenario creation and world-building, so you'll feel that there's a better fit in that community for the ideas that you are proposing.

If you have success in creating a Scenario, from my understanding, it can get mentioned in a news item on the main civfanatics web page, which would give you even more exposure.

Another cool idea is that once you have your Scenario ready and you've had a few people try it out in the Creation & Customization forum, just to work out the kinks, you can put a link to your Scenario in your signature. Then, anywhere on the site where you've made a post will automatically become an instant advertisement for your Scenario. It'll be up to you to market it creatively with a few short words, but you'll get a lot more exposure than you would expect to get.

Work hard and best of luck!