Top 10 stupidities in CIV 3

[Bibor]

Well, I play CIV 3 alot and I like it alot too but some things are just wrong...
So I made a top 10 annoying things that really hurt my intellect.

TOP 10 STUPIDIES (by Tech advance order)

1. Alphabet is prerequisite for Writing.
Now this is outrageous. Some cultures still dont use alphabet. And you develop alphabet to write, not to be happy with some letters just to wait another 1000 years (40 turns) to develop writing.

2. Horseback riding is researched *after* the wheel.
Its obvious. Wheeled chariot war units were actually very rare in history.
They should *all* be unique units. Anyone evey built a "basic" chariot in civ3?

3. Monarchy is researched before Feudalism.
Oh, come ooooon. Even if they used the term "king", it was still Despotism. We all know that?And Feudalism has kings too. Just as monarchy. Monarchy is hardcore middle-ages.

4. Cavalry uses muskets.
Every sane person on planet knows that there are no such things as mounted musketeers. Cavalry used sabres all the way to modern.

5. Republic is ancient, Democracy is developed in middle-ages.
The ancient greek had democracy as a "scientific advance", even if it used slavery as common work force. The "modern" democracy started only in late industrial ages. Republic *is* democracy. Latin "Rex publica" means the same as greek "Demos kratein" - rule of the people


6. Riflemen are part of Nationalism.
Riflemen were used at same time as Cavalry and cannons. And their primary weapon was the bayonette, not the bullet.

7. Economics and banking are separate tech?
If Smith is the father of economics then what is Karl Marx? The God of economics?

8. Amphibious warfare is a separate tech?
If amphibious warfare is so important to be a separate tech, how come that Radio and Television are left out?

9. Superconductor is researched (and used) before robotics.
No comment. Superconductor is still a dream. No real life use of it. Yet.

10. Spaceflight (tactical nuke) has nothing to do with fission nor computers

 

[warpstorm]

So, why don't you mod it? This you could do this evening and not wait for Civ4.

 

[Durkz]

4. Cavalry uses muskets.
Every sane person on planet knows that there are no such things as mounted musketeers. Cavalry used sabres all the way to modern.

cavalary used muskets and rifles and pistols adn sabers and maces ...(have you ever played cossacks)

10. Spaceflight (tactical nuke) has nothing to do with fission nor computers

computers are needed to guide your nuke
and everybody knows thet the exploasion of a nuke is fission process

6. Riflemen are part of Nationalism.
Riflemen were used at same time as Cavalry and cannons. And their primary weapon was the bayonette, not the bullet.

bayonette was developed for riflemen to defend from mele cavalary attacks


hehe djesi ba ja sam iz sarajeva

 

[rcoutme]

So, why don't you mod it? This you could do this evening and not wait for Civ4.

As a matter of fact, I, for one, do modify most of my games. I add the unit 'Dragoons' as a sabre-weilding unit and move cavalry, cossacks and ...oh the Turk unit, whatever it's called, out to Nationalism. I also give the moved units some slightly better stats.

It never made any sense to me that cavalry were using rifles but the footmen were not.

 

[microbe]

OK maybe you have a point, but who cares?

Again a "realism is the thing" argument..

I don't want Republic to be delayed!

 

[YNCS]

2. Horseback riding is researched *after* the wheel. Its obvious. Wheeled chariot war units were actually very rare in history.
They should *all* be unique units. Anyone evey built a "basic" chariot in civ3?

It wasn't until the invention of the stirrup that horsemen became effective warriors. Chariots were used effectively in the Middle East, Egypt, China, and Northern India long before horse cavalry were a major military arm.

3. Monarchy is researched before Feudalism.
Oh, come ooooon. Even if they used the term "king", it was still Despotism. We all know that?And Feudalism has kings too. Just as monarchy. Monarchy is hardcore middle-ages.

It's too bad we don't have a time machine, because it would be interesting to see how long you survived if you went back to 500 BC and told Tarquinius Superbus that he wasn't really King of Rome. Actually, you're just quibbling about whether or not rulers like Tarquinius should be called king or despot.

4. Cavalry uses muskets.
Every sane person on planet knows that there are no such things as mounted musketeers. Cavalry used sabres all the way to modern.

After about 1600 until World War I, cavalry was armed with various weapons, including lances (Uhlans), pistols (Dragoons), swords (Hussars, legeres au cheveal, etc.) and muskets/carbines (cossacks, sipahi, American Civil War cavalry).

6. Riflemen are part of Nationalism.
Riflemen were used at same time as Cavalry and cannons. And their primary weapon was the bayonette, not the bullet.

The primary weapon of riflemen was, surprisingly enough, the rifle. The only war which saw widespread use of rifled muskets was the American Civil War. In that war more casualties were caused by bullets than by bayonets.

7. Economics and banking are separate tech?
If Smith is the father of economics then what is Karl Marx? The God of economics?

Modern banking was invented the 13th Century. In 1401, the first modern commercial bank, the Banco de Barcelona, was holding deposits, exchanging currency, and making commercial loans to merchants and governments. This bank also issued letters of credit, the forerunner of the bank check. Adam Smith wasn't born until 1723.

10. Spaceflight (tactical nuke) has nothing to do with fission nor computers

Spaceflight requires computers and tactical nukes couldn't exist without fission.

 

[daengle]

1. Alphabet is prerequisite for Writing.
Now this is outrageous. Some cultures still dont use alphabet. And you develop alphabet to write, not to be happy with some letters just to wait another 1000 years (40 turns) to develop writing.

Well, I gotta quibble with most of your list, but it does seem very strange to me that Alphabet is the secret to making small boats (in Conquests).

 

[Bibor]

computers are needed to guide your nuke
and everybody knows thet the exploasion of a nuke is fission process
hehe djesi ba ja sam iz sarajeva

That was IRONY!!! What i wanted to say is that the Fission and Computers are *not a prerequisite* for Nukes in CIV3, while they *should* be.

A evo, pozdrav iz zagreba

 

[Masquerouge]

cavalary used muskets and rifles and pistols adn sabers and maces ...(have you ever played cossacks)

It's fun that you judge wether Civ3 is historically accurate or not based on another video game

 

[Bibor]

1. It wasn't until the invention of the stirrup that horsemen became effective warriors. Chariots were used effectively in the Middle East, Egypt, China, and Northern India long before horse cavalry were a major military arm.

2. It's too bad we don't have a time machine, because it would be interesting to see how long you survived if you went back to 500 BC and told Tarquinius Superbus that he wasn't really King of Rome. Actually, you're just quibbling about whether or not rulers like Tarquinius should be called king or despot.

3. After about 1600 until World War I, cavalry was armed with various weapons, including lances (Uhlans), pistols (Dragoons), swords (Hussars, legeres au cheveal, etc.) and muskets/carbines (cossacks, sipahi, American Civil War cavalry).

4. The primary weapon of riflemen was, surprisingly enough, the rifle. The only war which saw widespread use of rifled muskets was the American Civil War. In that war more casualties were caused by bullets than by bayonets.

5. Modern banking was invented the 13th Century. In 1401, the first modern commercial bank, the Banco de Barcelona, was holding deposits, exchanging currency, and making commercial loans to merchants and governments. This bank also issued letters of credit, the forerunner of the bank check. Adam Smith wasn't born until 1723.

6. Spaceflight requires computers and tactical nukes couldn't exist without fission.

1. stirrups were not used in general till 8th century. That would be well into dark ages. its first "real" use was dated to 3rd-5th century AD in China (a really isolated example). Ancient civilizations were dabbling with it, but not with effect. The first known european stirrup use was in France and caused the start of feudalism. Correct me, bat 3-5th century AD would be just at the time of fall of the Western ROman Empire 476 AD.? Not the second civ tech that can be obtained at 3000 BC.

2. Monarchy is in CIV3 case used both for Enlightened monarchy, absolutistic monarchy and empire. And since despotism describes the ancient era kings fittingly, definitively at least one government is missing. How can it be that it's easier to get to building the Roman Legions than to monarchy if, yes, Rome was a monarchy before becoming a republic (since not until Iulius Caesar transformed the legions from volunteers to become standing troops).

3. You missed the point. What i wanted to say is that the cavalry was always a "special" unit, not the bulk of the army. For one, i can hardly imagine that the English vs. the french mustered 1,000,000 horses (number of men the Anglo/Russian/Prussian alliance had for Waterloo (in general). In CIV3 the infantry of that era is non-existent. And yes, the rifle was the main weapon of the rifleman but the infantry rifles all had bayonettes in the Napoleonic era and after.

4.&5. Since banks in CIV3 only increase commerce (not banking abilities etc.), this form of banking can be found already in ancient Greece, Phoenicia, Babylon and other cultures. Actually, the banking as we today know it started in 19th century (Rostchild, Bank of France) and these isolated examples like the Bank in Barcelona were common just as in the ancient era = reseved for the rich and the nobility.

6. As I explained before, this was told in irony. What i wanted to say is that computers and fission "should" be a prerequisite for nukes. Fission is, indirectly by adding the needed uranium resource, but computers are not. How the hell can spaceflight be achieved without even the simplest of computers? They calculated on abacus?

 

[Kozmos]

Pozdrav

With abacus lolz.*agrees with Bibor*

 

[Darkness]

Well, I play CIV 3 alot and I like it alot too but some things are just wrong...
So I made a top 10 annoying things that really hurt my intellect.

TOP 10 STUPIDIES (by Tech advance order)
9. Superconductor is researched (and used) before robotics.
No comment. Superconductor is still a dream. No real life use of it. Yet.

Actually, it's not still a dream...

Superconductors are already used for many aspects in scientific research. For example: The charged voltage rods of a mass spectrometer are superconductors

 

[Vizurok]

Well, I gotta quibble with most of your list, but it does seem very strange to me that Alphabet is the secret to making small boats (in Conquests).

Maybe the Phoenicians (sorry for spelling), they were very famous for their alphabet and they had explored the Mediterrean Sea...

 

[Chieftess]

1. Alphabet is prerequisite for Writing.
Now this is outrageous. Some cultures still dont use alphabet. And you develop alphabet to write, not to be happy with some letters just to wait another 1000 years (40 turns) to develop writing.

Think of it this way - "Alphabet" is cuneiform, or characters (representation of sounds), but only used by the elite. "Writing" is a more sophisticated form of representing one's language, and more widespread.

2. Horseback riding is researched *after* the wheel.
Its obvious. Wheeled chariot war units were actually very rare in history.
They should *all* be unique units. Anyone evey built a "basic" chariot in civ3?

I just saw a show on "The Wheel". There were 3 uses:

1 - Chariots. The first were driven by Oxen by the Sumerians.
2 - Harvesting grains and wheat (used for grinding)
3 - Used to assist in the making of pottery.

3. Monarchy is researched before Feudalism.
Oh, come ooooon. Even if they used the term "king", it was still Despotism. We all know that?And Feudalism has kings too. Just as monarchy. Monarchy is hardcore middle-ages.

Hammurabi was a king. David was a king. The pharohs were kings (and queens). Monarchy is pretty much based on the same idea - the heir to the throne is the next leader.

4. Cavalry uses muskets.
Every sane person on planet knows that there are no such things as mounted musketeers. Cavalry used sabres all the way to modern.

That cav isn't using a musket. It's a rifle. I'm pretty sure cavalrymen had all sorts of weapons, with the sword probably being symbolic. It all depends on the type of cavalry though. I think Firaxis modeled it after cavs with rifles.

5. Republic is ancient, Democracy is developed in middle-ages.
The ancient greek had democracy as a "scientific advance", even if it used slavery as common work force. The "modern" democracy started only in late industrial ages. Republic *is* democracy. Latin "Rex publica" means the same as greek "Demos kratein" - rule of the people

Nope, modern democracy started in the middle ages. In fact, the US is actually a Representative Republic. I guess it's sort of like ancient and modern monarchies... Firaxis didn't want too many governments.

6. Riflemen are part of Nationalism.
Riflemen were used at same time as Cavalry and cannons. And their primary weapon was the bayonette, not the bullet.

It's a design issue. Cavs are optional, and Nationalism is the first on the ajenda of civs. The ones that used Bayonettes would be more like "Mideval Infantry".

7. Economics and banking are separate tech?
If Smith is the father of economics then what is Karl Marx? The God of economics?

Banks were around in the middle middle ages I think.

8. Amphibious warfare is a separate tech?
If amphibious warfare is so important to be a separate tech, how come that Radio and Television are left out?

Because it represents an optional unit that's part of gameplay. Also, Firaxis dioesn't want 1 era to last longer than others.

9. Superconductor is researched (and used) before robotics.
No comment. Superconductor is still a dream. No real life use of it. Yet.

It's the idea of superconductors that's important. Technically, there are superconductors, only at very cold temperatures.

10. Spaceflight (tactical nuke) has nothing to do with fission nor computers

Yes it does. Orbital and Sub-orbital flight. Rockets have to go somewhere...

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Radio isn't left out, what have you been smoking? And what use would television be anyway? Spend the money on the luxury slider, you'd get happy people. You post a funny list, but it gets shot down fast.

 

[Chieftess]

Radio is gone from C3C 1.22.

 

[ukrneal]

On the banking issue, it is often said that the Knights Templar were really the first 'modern' banks of our times. That is, here was a place where you could receive a piece of paper after depositing some money with them (with a small fee) and reliably tavel with that piece of paper, arrive in a different country and bring that paper to the Knights Templar and receive your money from them (in this other location). It is often referred to as the first of this kind, because of the the way they stored money and could return it from hundreds of locations. I'm not aware of any earlier examples of this on such a large scale, as the Knights Templar were all over Europe in the 12-13th century.

So having banking before economics has at least this example to back it up.

 

[TomOC]

1. Alphabet is prerequisite for Writing.
Now this is outrageous. Some cultures still dont use alphabet. And you develop alphabet to write, not to be happy with some letters just to wait another 1000 years (40 turns) to develop writing.

2. Horseback riding is researched *after* the wheel.
Its obvious. Wheeled chariot war units were actually very rare in history.
They should *all* be unique units. Anyone evey built a "basic" chariot in civ3?
[/B]

1. I am not an historian, but from what I understand, an alphabet (or symbols) was used to mark an individuals product. It was developed after pottery to mark an individuals pots, because once something was put into a pot, there was no way of telling what was in that container, so they started putting marks on the pot to identify contents and show ownership. Writing came later as a way to convey ideas.

2. I think the wheel should also be a prerequisite for building roads. Before the wheel, roads were just paths with no way to carry a large quantity of goods to trade between towns.

 

[IceBeast]

7. My only comment is on 7. Smith isnt considered the Father of Economics, he is considered the Father of MODERN Economics. If he was the father of economics, then that would be saying that no economics ever existed before the 18th century, which is flawed in all its reasoning. And I wouldnt call Marx the god of economics (I realize your sarcasm), but just building off Smiths theories like Keynes did aswell.

I think Banking and Economics should be seperate. Banking, as pointed out, has been around for a while. Economics is a system of Theories to maximize profit of companies.

 

[Durkz]

It's fun that you judge wether Civ3 is historically accurate or not based on another video game

cossacks was made while consulting varius historical and weapons encyclopedias
so it is fairly accurate

@bibor
o irony
i read quickly and did not get the meaning of string 10 sry