Top 5 rpg

[H4run]

But I have to say that I hate that I never really played any console RPGs.
Seems I've missed a lot in these regards.

Don't worry The_J you don't miss that much the peak of console RPGs was start from Snes, and reached its peak on playstation, but after playstation 1 things go down pretty bad from there.

 

[PhroX]

Well, my top two have been the same for the last 10+ years, and I'll be amazed if they ever change, but 3-5 seem to vary based on my current mood, and what I've (re)played recently. Anyway, this is my current ranking - probably a couple of surprises:

1 - Planescape: Torment - What more can I say about it what hasn't already been said dozens of times? It's not flawless - the combat in particular is pretty poor, and it's lacking in replayability (once you've done a "high non-combat stats" character, you've pretty much seen everything) - but the storytelling, characters and setting are simply unsurpassed.

2 - Baldur's Gate 2 - While the original hasn't aged as well as might've been hoped, BG2 still stands as the finest example of your classic high fanatsy RPG. Again, the storytelling and characters are brilliant, the gameplay is fun and you damn sure get your moneys worth. Throw in some fanatstic mods, and there's pretty much nothing wrong with the game at all.

3 - Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines - Ridiculously buggy (there's *still* unofficial patches with fixes being released....), but have some patience with it and you've got an absolute masterpiece on your hands.

4 - NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer - Maybe a bit cheaty putting an expansion pack here, but damn, it's worth it. The original NWN2 was so-so: I quite liked it, but I could never really tell if it was playing straight with it's genericness, or if it was actually a clever parody/deconstruction of RPGs, and I don't think I'll ever go back to it. It's first expansion though, was Obsidian going back to their BIS roots, and giving us the closest we've ever had to Torment. As with it's spiritual predeccesor, it takes the story in a complex and unusal direction for cRPGs, with a perfectly weighted exploration of the D&D gods and afterlife, more strange but fantastic charcters, interesting moral choices and, as usual, amazing storytelling.

5 - Jade Empire - Bioware's hidden gem. I'm not going to claim it's flawless by any means, but far more so than any of their more recent big budget work, JE really feels like a labour of love, and that's why I'm such a huge fan of it. More than anything, it's the setting that makes it for me - it's so different from what you usually get in RPGs, capturing eastern mythology so well, and the fact that it's never been revisted is downright criminal. The story is fun and well written (one thing I really like is that you're not "the world's last hope" from the word go - while you do end up as that, the story builds up to it nicely), the characters, while not the exceptional wierdness of BIS/Obsidian, are interesting and the combat, while possibly a bit repetative by the end, well made. Oh, and the twist is *perfect*.

 

[sherbz]

1 - Baldurs Gate 2 - As Phrox says - its the best classic fantasy RPG there is. A pure and unadulterated masterpiece with some of the best characters in a computer game ever (Minsc, Edwin, Sarevok and Irenicus to name but a few).

2 - Skyrim - A work of art! Its a shame the port to the PC was not as good as it should have been, but the game itself is a total epic.

3 - System Shock 2 - More of an action RPG, but arguably spawned a new type of genre. The game was super creepy and scary as well.

4 - Shining force 2 - A soft spot of mine. A well scripted story, some interesting play decisions, and quite a challenge played on super mode.

5 - Aethra Chronicles - Made by one single programmer in his spare time in the 1990s. I think it was actually an excellent game. Shame only one of the chapters was ever written. But i think when you play it, the level of detail is astounding considering it was just one guy who made it.

 

[Rub'Rum]

(I will say, Skyrim's exploration is certainly better than TW2 (...) but that's not really an important component of an RPG.)

I wouldn't put Skyrim in the top 5 RPGs of all time, but I disagree with this statement. I mean it's a matter of taste, but I'll often put exploration and world detail above storyline depending on the game. Skyrim happens to be an example of a game where the world itself sort of made me forget about the more than average storyline. It was a bit of a stereotypical setting, but at least it was strongly thematic and not all over the place, it managed to have a lot of interesting areas within one theme.

 

[PhroX]

I wouldn't put Skyrim in the top 5 RPGs of all time, but I disagree with this statement. I mean it's a matter of taste, but I'll often put exploration and world detail above storyline depending on the game. Skyrim happens to be an example of a game where the world itself sort of made me forget about the more than average storyline. It was a bit of a stereotypical setting, but at least it was strongly thematic and not all over the place, it managed to have a lot of interesting areas within one theme.

My problem with Bethesda games is that they inevitably create this amazing world, but then fail to put anything particularly interesting to do in it other than wander around - which is, admittedly, pretty interesting for a while. The charcaters are bland, the quests boring, combat so-so at best. What Skyrim really needs IMO is a semi-sequel in the manner of Fallout: New Vegas which combines Bethesda's world building with someone else's (Obsidian in that case) storytelling, as it worked brilliantly and massively improved over the original FO3.

Not saying Skyrim is bad as such, I did have fun playing it, just that it's not close to being "best RPG ever", and could be so much better (made worse by the fact that all Bethesda games have the same flaws. For God's sake, hire a decent writer...)

 

[The_J]

Problem: There needs to be actually something interesting to explore.
I don't know about Skyrim, but in Morrowind all the Daedra ruins were after some time...just boring. Same layout. Same monsters. Same everything. That's not interesting to explore.
In contrast to that I liked Divinity 2 more. Okay, the world is obviously limited, but behind the next tree there could be something interesting.
Just more stuff hand made, and not generated by an algorithm.

Don't worry The_J you don't miss that much the peak of console RPGs was start from Snes, and reached its peak on playstation, but after playstation 1 things go down pretty bad from there.

I didn't say right now .
In the past there I definitely missed something.

5 - Jade Empire - Bioware's hidden gem.

oh, forgot that one. Very nice atmosphere, nice story, intersting combat (not much exploration though).

 

[Rub'Rum]

What Skyrim really needs IMO is a semi-sequel in the manner of Fallout: New Vegas which combines Bethesda's world building with someone else's (Obsidian in that case) storytelling, as it worked brilliantly and massively improved over the original FO3.

If I had a choice between improving storytelling, or making exploration discoveries actually matter, I'd pick the exploration discovery effort. It really hurts the game that there is so little equipment in the game that matters, and it's not very varied, and it also hurts that the skill choices are kind of boring and feel like they don't have much impact on anything. So whenever you discover a cool place or a treasure or anything, the result in terms of gameplay or feeling of progress and reward is always underwhelming. But then I'm the kind of guy that, had a better experience playing Fallout 3 than FNV (while recognizing the latter is a better game), but that discussion was had in another thread. Exploration and powerful addictive gameplay and game mechanics are unique to gaming. Awesome stories I can get from books and movies anyway.

Anyway, it's a false dichotomy and they might as well do both.

 

[civvver]

My problem with Bethesda games is that they inevitably create this amazing world, but then fail to put anything particularly interesting to do in it other than wander around - which is, admittedly, pretty interesting for a while. The charcaters are bland, the quests boring, combat so-so at best. What Skyrim really needs IMO is a semi-sequel in the manner of Fallout: New Vegas which combines Bethesda's world building with someone else's (Obsidian in that case) storytelling, as it worked brilliantly and massively improved over the original FO3.

Not saying Skyrim is bad as such, I did have fun playing it, just that it's not close to being "best RPG ever", and could be so much better (made worse by the fact that all Bethesda games have the same flaws. For God's sake, hire a decent writer...)

I think this is spot on, and part of why I hated oblivion. And trust me for a while, until I really posted my hate for oblivion here and saw many others agree, I though there was something wrong with me for disliking it so. Skyrim is a massive improvement and I got caught up in it at times going down certain quest lines just wanting to see what was next, but a lot of them are repetitive and dull. A lot of the dungeon/caves share the same layout and all feel the same. Everything is very disjointed and a little too open, after a while it got dull. They keep trying to draw you into some main quest about dragons and figuring all that out but I never totally bought in. Which would be fine except for...

If I had a choice between improving storytelling, or making exploration discoveries actually matter, I'd pick the exploration discovery effort. It really hurts the game that there is so little equipment in the game that matters, and it's not very varied, and it also hurts that the skill choices are kind of boring and feel like they don't have much impact on anything. So whenever you discover a cool place or a treasure or anything, the result in terms of gameplay or feeling of progress and reward is always underwhelming. But then I'm the kind of guy that, had a better experience playing Fallout 3 than FNV (while recognizing the latter is a better game), but that discussion was had in another thread. Exploration and powerful addictive gameplay and game mechanics are unique to gaming. Awesome stories I can get from books and movies anyway.

Anyway, it's a false dichotomy and they might as well do both.

Yes! Spot on! You pick up some new sword at the end of a dungeon you just fought through hordes of undead to get to and... well, the sword makes you kill guys in 2 hits instead of 3. I guess. I never really understood skyrims dps, it seemed a very trivial mechanic. Why do I need to level more in 2h weapons? I can just block and kill every monster in the game as is. While I appreciate slimmed down ui and more immersive combat/leveling systems that try not to go overboard with gamerfication, I think skyrim is lacking a bit of the "WoW" factor (that's world of warcraft). Those kind of rpgs (diablo, torchlight do this too) put huge emphasis on loot and stats and while it's sometimes annoying it's what keeps you playing, it's like a carrot on the end of a stick you're always trying to get. Mass effect keeps you playing so you can experience the story and also max out your skill points in cool abilities, dragon age does the same and takes it a but further with loot that matters a bit, but in skyrim this all falls by the wayside. Items have little to no effect on the game, same with skills. Incentive to play is all based around story and exploring and the story dries up fast.

I still spent 90 hours playing skyrim and consider it a great game but all the criticism is valid. It only makes my top 5 by default since I've probably only played 10 or so rpgs.

 

[coanda]

In context of the year they were released:
Planescape, Morrowind, The Witcher, Dishonored, The Bards Tale (original, not the 2004 remake).

Without context, if I was just recommending ones to try today:
Skyrim, The Witcher 2, Dishonored, Planescape, ... I don't know, maybe Risen? I think I'd just stop at those 4 as must-plays for any CRPG fan today.

 

[Zack]

Dishonored is a great game, but not an RPG.

 

[bonefang]

No one in here Diablo 2 Medial XL mod ?
TWO, not the latest one ...

 

[PhroX]

No one in here Diablo 2 Medial XL mod ?
TWO, not the latest one ...

I suppose I just don't think of D2 as an RPG. Don't mean that as a criticism, as I thoroughly enjoy it, but there's no roleplaying in there, just a straight up action game.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

Yeah D2 is pretty much in no way an RPG. I burnt years of my life away on that game, it was an awesome game, but it was not an RPG.

For me top 5 would probably look something like this:

Fallout 2
Deus Ex
Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines
Morrowind
Baldur's Gate

And since those are all western cRPG's, I'm going to cheat and also list jRPG's separately:

Legend of Mana
Earthbound
Valkyrie Profile
Suikoden 2
Suikoden 5 (yes, 2 Suikodens, DEAL WITH IT)

And since I'm already cheating, I'm also going to cheat again and list strategy RPG's separately:

Final Fantasy Tactics (the original, not the Advanced abomination)
Fire Emblem 4
Fire Emblem 7
Shining Force 2
Tactics Ogre

 

[Lone Wolf]

Skyrim is quite mediocre without all official DLC's and - more importantly - proper mods, but 9/10 with them.

 

[H4run]

Valkyrie Profile
Suikoden 2

I completely forgot about these two gems, it should be in my top 5 list replacing thousand arm and ff7. And it quite unusual seen legend of mana to be number 1 in the top 5 list, legend of mana is really really a good game that highly underrated. Play that game several time and never finished it, it is kind of hard to finish legend of mana without walkthrough, and I play most of my games without walkthrough (until recently because I really don't have time to wondering around clueless).

 

[Wolfbeckett]

I completely forgot about these two gems, it should be in my top 5 list replacing thousand arm and ff7. And it quite unusual seen legend of mana to be number 1 in the top 5 list, legend of mana is really really a good game that highly underrated. Play that game several time and never finished it, it is kind of hard to finish legend of mana without walkthrough, and I play most of my games without walkthrough (until recently because I really don't have time to wondering around clueless).

I should note that those lists are not in order, my number one jRPG is WAY Suikoden 2. Legend of Mana isn't number one, it's just awesome enough that it does make top 5.

 

[Disgustipated]

This! You really speak loudly what I have inside me, I think you are the first person whom I see in the internet speaking like this, even though I don't agree with you regarding the battle system of course it is nicer than Oblivion and Morrowind, but I really agree with the rest of the point.

And yes Skyrim is so boring, the character is easily forgettable, the environment are so repetitive (everywhere look the same). As an Elderscroll appreciator I try so hard (years ago) to appreciate Skyrim and to convince myself that this game is enjoyable, but I can't, I even start to question myself "maybe I'm too old to play a game? maybe I should reconsider myself to stop playing game?" Because seeing how peoples celebrating Skyrim and how they praise and endorse this game even praise it over Morrowind and Oblivion, so it must be not the game who wrong here, but it is me.

I think the reason we don't find any review that try to review Skyrim as the way it is is because criticizing Skyrim become some kind like gaming community taboo just like praising Final Fantasy 7, it anger many gamers.

I wouldn't say it's boring. The combat and exploration are fun. But you'll all notice I didn't include it in my list of top 5 (actually 8, actually 10 including my honorable mentions). It's an improvement over Oblivion which I have never finished, and I probably have less than 40 hours played. I don't understand why Oblivion was so popular. I guess if you just like to kill stuff it's kind of fun. But I need story to keep me interested.

They fixed the skill system (although it isn't perfect). No more worrying about leveling up "bad" skills that you don't want. Trying to get the 5X boost. Very annoying, and I hated every bit of that. But as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the itemization of this game is not fun. The loot isn't fun. You pick up some sword with some random enchantment. *yawn*. In reality it's worse than what I can craft myself. It makes gaining loot entirely pointless. Which just leaves you with exploration and killing things.

It's a beautiful game. It's like a beautiful model who's all looks and no brains. Sure you want to bang her a few dozen times, but you don't want to spend your life with her.

 

[H4run]

I don't understand why Oblivion was so popular. I guess if you just like to kill stuff it's kind of fun. But I need story to keep me interested.

I agree with you. Storyline for me still the most important aspect in rpg, maybe it sound like inconsistent to some of you that think Elderscroll have a weak storyline, it can be truth in some case, yes I agree, or in some side quest, but it not apply all the time.

Take for example Oblivion expansion, the shivering Isles, it have a very good storyline, the graphic for me it is not just good but it is completely beautiful, yes I never finished the main quest in Oblivion because I hardly focus on it because there many other things that interest me, and yes I must admit the main quest in Oblivion is boring, but I finished the main quest in the shivering Isles almost each time I reinstall the game.

I don't enjoy doing rampage in my game. The things that I like is wondering around and doing the side quest, I like many of the quest in Oblivion like as I mention before the quest where you enter the painting of a painter to save the painter, the quest is short but so absurd and interesting. Also the side quest in chorol. Or when you try to figure out a mysterious murder, or a band of girl robber that haunting peoples around the city. There are many more to mention. But the downside of it as it stated by other member in this forum is because you can easily maximize your character in Oblivion and that make you easily feel the quest is no longer rewarding, and it make you less motivated to do the side quest.

I also like how oblivion appear to be green and colourful unlike Morrowind and Skyrim. And Oblivion have a huge collection of mods that can even enchant and customize your game, from your leveling system till a complete overhaul on each aspect of the games.

For me, oblivion with mods is one of the best game I ever play in pc.

 

[H4run]

but in conclusion after reading all of the list, it seem to me my next game will be not mass effect 3, but Planescape Torment, everybody seems to speak about it highly.

 

[Zack]

You really should play Mass Effect 3.