TR03 - Losers self-teach DemiGod

[Tubby Rower]

I have to admit that I'm curious to see whether we could pull off the win at Deity. On the other hand, all of the games I've been in lately have been fast domination-type games, so I wouldn't really mind trying something different. An Emperor OCC might be a bit much, though.

I think that we can handle an OCC. I've never done one but it'll be different.

I agree on the Diety thing. For some reason, I'm thinking that there is a wall out there that we are about to hit. We only have Diety and Sid left. I don't think that we are as good as the Magnificent 7 + 1. (even though we have one of the seven and the + 1 helping us). We had a good start on this one except that someone (who shall remain nameless) on our team keeps mining food bonuses to waste those good starts.

I won't be able to roll any tonight as it is nearing sleepy time. So we'll ponder on it for a bit longer. And I'll probably open the thread up Friday morning ~7 or 8 EDT. Just for reference it is 10pm EDT as of..........now.

 

[Mach]

I think deity would be a bit much for me. I'm taking strides on solo demigod, but I haven't beat it yet.

An OCC game to work on micromanagement really close-up sounds great to me; I guess we'd have to go cultural or diplo. Have you thought about a 5cc space game, tubby? That would also appeal to me, although I wouldn't know what level to try that on. Just my two pesos.

 

[Minute Man]

I think that we can handle an OCC. I've never done one but it'll be different.

I've only tried it once (on Regent), and it is quite a bit harder than a standard game. It's definitely an interesting challenge, but trying it on Emperor might be too much. Maybe a 5CC instead? Or an OCC on Monarch?

I agree on the Diety thing. For some reason, I'm thinking that there is a wall out there that we are about to hit. We only have Diety and Sid left.

Well, I have no intention of trying to take on Sid. Probably not ever. From what I hear, it's a huge jump up from even Deity. But I would like to take a shot at Deity sooner or later. And we're on a roll right now.

 

[Bede]

I think a Deity 5CC game would be just the ticket for this bunch of winners. A SEA/COM oR SEA/AGRI nation would be good, with an Middle Ages Unique Unit.

It is not an overwhelming challenge and the keystone to victory is diplomacy and trade and making the most of limited resources.

Another option would be an Emperor/Demigod game with a less than optimal start. Those really require application of creative thinking.

 

[Mach]

@Bede -- 5CC diety on archipelago, you mean? Come to think of it, an archi game would be awesome...

 

[Minute Man]

I think a Deity 5CC game would be just the ticket for this bunch of winners.

There we go. Since we're not sure whether to do Deity or an xCC, let's just combine the two.

I do like the idea of a 5CC, but on Deity? Are you sure about that, Bede?

 

[Bede]

With SEA/COM or SEA/SCI (England or Byz) traits and a decent island start with 60% oceans 5CC should be a challenge.

5CC or 0CC Emperor would be a cakewalk for this bunch of s. Demi-god trivial.

 

[eldar]

I like the idea of 5CC Deity. It's crazy enough that it just might work.

 

[eldar]

0CC Emperor would be a cakewalk for this bunch of s. Demi-god trivial.

Zero-CC. Now that would be a challenge!

 

[Tubby Rower]

I like Theo.

So let me get this straight before I go home and roll some starts tonight....

Byzantine
Diety
standard map
Archipeligo
60% water
normal climate
7 random opponents
senditary barbs?
no culturally linked starts
all normal VC's enabled
5CC

Is that it? Are we looking for a good or a semi-bad start? The only reason I ask is that if we are looking for a bad start and I somehow roll 5 awesome starts it doesn't make sense to use any of them. I have been rolling a good mix of starts. With Seafaring, we'll have a coastal start for sure.

 

[eldar]

I'd go with 80% water not 60%, but otherwise fine. A river would be nice, forest+game good too to get a really quick Curragh (5 turns instead of 8).

 

[Minute Man]

I like Byz as well, or possibly the Dutch (mostly because of Mercs). I don't really see the point of England - Commercial doesn't seem too useful for a 5CC.

I think we want a good start, definitely. I also agree with 80% water (though that'll make fresh water starts pretty rare). No sense in giving the AI lots of extra land when we can't use any of it.

I also think no barbs at all. Sedentary would just give the AI a chance to pop good things from goody huts, while I imagine we won't get much of value on Deity. And any higher level of barb activity would be more than we would want to deal with.

How would we be planning to win? Diplo seems like the only viable choice. By the time we could reach 20K, the AI will probably long since have launched.

Oh, yeah, good luck with your turns in this game, dman. Just take it as a sign of our confidence in you that we're already discussing the next game. I'm sure you won't let us down by making me play again.

 

[Tubby Rower]

80% water on a 5CC would be a little harder due to galleys needing to get accross water to settle all 5 cities.

BTW, I'd like to make this a STRICT 5CC. That means no keeping cities unless we only have 4 or less before capturing the city.

EDIT due to X-post::: The VC can still be Domination or more likely conquest. It might just take longer. I think that we should aim for diplo or space but if Conquest allows itself then lets go for it.

 

[eldar]

70% then? And don't forget we'll have Dromons, not Galleys Basically we want to limit the number of possible sea lanes for the AI to use (where we can use the lanes due to our extra movement point).

 

[Tubby Rower]

I'm fine with 70. I guess 80 wouldn't be too bad either. I rather like all-random starts anyway so I really don't care. I could make that setting random and just deal with what we are given.

I agree on the barbs. I forgot that we won't be expansionist.

 

[Minute Man]

EDIT due to X-post::: The VC can still be Domination or more likely conquest. It might just take longer. I think that we should aim for diplo or space but if Conquest allows itself then lets go for it.

Er...domination? In a 5CC? And my understanding is that conquest is much harder. Diplo and space seem like the only reasonable options, with a slight possibility of 20K. But we can sort that out once we get going.

I'm fine with 70. I guess 80 wouldn't be too bad either. I rather like all-random starts anyway so I really don't care. I could make that setting random and just deal with what we are given.

Even with 80, I'd think we'd have enough room for five cities without leaving our continent. And I don't think you can do an arch map with random water %. You either do a fully random land form, or pick the exact type you want. And I'd really rather not try this on a pangea.

Edit: And I agree on the strict 5CC. That's the way I like to play it, too.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Conquest wouldn't be any harder than keeping everyone suppressed enough to launch a ship.

I'll try to see if I can get it random, but if not is 70 ok with everyone or 80%? 5CC domination could be doable but more than likely near impossible. You'd need the full unrestricted border expansion on all 5 cities on 5 different "continents". I'm not a statistics nerd but you'd probably need a smaller than standard map too.

I think that all options should be kept open in this one. That means being cafeful about trade routes. Barb galleys aren't an issue but enemy ships blockading a port or two could cause an unexpected rep hit and would greatly hinder our chances of winning.

 

[Minute Man]

Conquest wouldn't be any harder than keeping everyone suppressed enough to launch a ship.

Sure it would. To deal with a ship, we'd just have to wipe out the capital of whoever is threatening to launch it, which might be possible with a relatively limited military campaign (especially if we have nukes). For a conquest, we'd have to take out every single city on the map.

Besides, if we can keep up in techs (which admittedly won't be easy), we might be able to outrace everybody (with a well-timed prebuild or something). And if we can't at least be close to keeping up in tech, pretty much every victory condition will be impossible. But I agree that we should keep our options open (does that mean going for an early wonder or two to preserve the possibility of 20K?).

On the map: I'd still prefer 80%, but 70% would be OK too.

And if my math is right, domination isn't even theoretically possible on a standard map - even with 80% water, we'd need somewhere in the neighborhood of 700+ tiles (not to mention 2/3 of the population), which we can't do even with five maximally expanded cities. It might be possible on a tiny map, but that's probably it.

 

[Bede]

TwentyK culture would be a nice challenging game. As the Byzantines building a huge navy of Dromons will be the way to control both the tech pace and the overall development of the neighbors: no harbors, no overseas commerce, no coastal roads or terrain improvements limited commerce at home. No trade, limited lux, no science.

You do want a good, really goood starting location.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Ok so 80% water. Going for Domination, oh wait... I mean 20k culture. Dromons going to be bombarding. Any VC is fine with me but we'll have to be focused early to even allow 20k so initial focus should be on that. I'll roll a bunch of starts & post the best here. Can I go first again so I can mine (I mean irrigate) the food bonuses?

I'll have the starts and the new thread up in ~ 17 hours. Try to limit it to 5 maybe expand to 6. These games have been going pretty quickly due to everyone's quick response and turn around. Thank you guys.