Tradition guide from beginner to intermediate

[Txurce]

However, I still think you can have a few coastal cities even if you're not going to build a real navy -- what matters is their defensibility. You want as few coastal tiles adjacent to the city as possible, which limits the number of melee ships that can attack per turn; fewer tiles adjacent to those (in the second ring) is also better, since that limits the number of ranged ships that can attack. For a defensible coastal city you just need one melee ship inside it to help attack adjacent ships, your ranged land units and the city can handle the rest.

A coastal city with few water tiles isn't any safer. When attacking these cities, I just rotate my range vessels, then plug the lone water tile with a melee ship.

 

[Stalker0]

I go sovereignty in most cases. If you can work the artist it hugely speeds up your culture pace

 

[CrazyG]

Sovereignty is the default for me. You take justice if you are very high on culture, very low on hammers, or other interesting scenarios (like building stonehenge, which is very doable this patch)

 

[hr_oskar]

A coastal city with few water tiles isn't any safer. When attacking these cities, I just rotate my range vessels, then plug the lone water tile with a melee ship.

Of course it's safer, because the melee attackers are very relevant. It doesn't matter what you do because I'm defending the against the AI, which tends to have swarms of melee ships and fewer ranged. Also note that I did account for ranged ships and mentioned that the number of coastal tiles next to the adjacent tiles matter too. So if your city is at the end of 2 tile fjord, only one melee and one ranged ship will be able to attack it each turn.

Saying you mustn't settle on the coast at all is too generic, on many map types that won't work at all.

 

[Txurce]

Of course it's safer, because the melee attackers are very relevant. It doesn't matter what you do because I'm defending the against the AI, which tends to have swarms of melee ships and fewer ranged. Also note that I did account for ranged ships and mentioned that the number of coastal tiles next to the adjacent tiles matter too. So if your city is at the end of 2 tile fjord, only one melee and one ranged ship will be able to attack it each turn.

Saying you mustn't settle on the coast at all is too generic, on many map types that won't work at all.

Okie dokie.

 

[CrazyG]

Of course it's safer, because the melee attackers are very relevant. It doesn't matter what you do because I'm defending the against the AI, which tends to have swarms of melee ships and fewer ranged. Also note that I did account for ranged ships and mentioned that the number of coastal tiles next to the adjacent tiles matter too. So if your city is at the end of 2 tile fjord, only one melee and one ranged ship will be able to attack it each turn.

Saying you mustn't settle on the coast at all is too generic, on many map types that won't work at all.

Tradition is generally pretty bad on some of the really water heavy maps. Avoiding the coastal exposure is a good idea on higher difficulties and something players learning tradition should really consider. Sure you can settle coastal sometimes, sometimes you have to, but in general you should do less than the other two trees.

 

[Owlbebach]

Tradition is generally pretty bad on some of the really water heavy maps. Avoiding the coastal exposure is a good idea on higher difficulties and something players learning tradition should really consider. Sure you can settle coastal sometimes, sometimes you have to, but in general you should do less than the other two trees.

I agree, with an exception that you can settle city so that there will be only 1 or 2 tiles from which enemy can attack you. 3 is too much, but 2 is okay. In this case you can defend pretty easy

 

[CrazyG]

I agree, with an exception that you can settle city so that there will be only 1 or 2 tiles from which enemy can attack you. 3 is too much, but 2 is okay. In this case you can defend pretty easy

Yea if you get a natural bay or harbour shape its fine. Also means you have more land tiles which is important. You want farms, not coast, as your food source.

 

[hr_oskar]

I think we more or less agree. I also meant that it's okay if you have a narrow bay kind of shape. Also the remoteness of the city can be relevant -- how far away by ship are any potential enemies?

I don't play water-heavy maps as in archipelago or small continents. I play a Perfectworld script with large continents, often resulting in pangeas, but only 25% land surface. On these maps you find yourself torn between land and sea most of the time, which is the way I like it.

I go sovereignty in most cases. If you can work the artist it hugely speeds up your culture pace

Sovereignty is the default for me. You take justice if you are very high on culture, very low on hammers, or other interesting scenarios (like building stonehenge, which is very doable this patch)

Cool. I started out Sovereignty first but then switched to Justice first based on comments on this forum. I'd started to question that choice myself which is why I brought it up.

How about religion? I'm always tempted to skip religion, particularly if it isn't strictly necessary for my long-term strategy (e.g. Austria), because I could really do with focusing on other things in the early game.

If I skip religion, one of my go-to pantheons lately has been Goddess of Wisdom. Goddess of Beauty (which is obviously made for tradition) is also a very interesting choice which I've tried out a few times. It's not immediately sexy but I suspect it's easy to underrate it. Anyone here taking Goddess of Beauty?

 

[CrazyG]

Anyone here taking Goddess of Beauty?

I take it all the time

 

[Owlbebach]

I take it all the time

I do not, it may be strong, but i usually most early-game wander cause they belong to crappy technologies...

 

[Stalker0]

I do not, it may be strong, but i usually most early-game wander cause they belong to crappy technologies...

Yep, who would ever take pottery

 

[Owlbebach]

Yep, who would ever take pottery

Well i will probably never understand Stonehenge. It is just so bad that i'm not gonna build it even if its production cost if halved. I can see it being an okay wonder with Goddes of Beauty, but still, you need more Wonders!

 

[hr_oskar]

I take it all the time

Interesting. But to found with it, it seems you must build at least two early wonders. Do you build Stonehenge all the time?

Taking it without the intention to found is pretty legit too. Especially since you can have all the satellite cities converted to an AI religion and still retain the benefits in the capital.

 

[ScooterDWiebels]

Tradition is generally pretty bad on some of the really water heavy maps. Avoiding the coastal exposure is a good idea on higher difficulties and something players learning tradition should really consider. Sure you can settle coastal sometimes, sometimes you have to, but in general you should do less than the other two trees.

imho it's situational if I settle coastal cities under tradition, it's because I get a coastal map with lots of sea resources(usually your natural monopoly will be a sea resource) and you take God of the Sea pantheon belief it's tempting to build coastal cities and reap all the benefits from the sea. I did this in a recent game I was given a thin coastal strip backed by a huge desert that was mostly flat with little resources it helped that my neighbor across the desert was Morocco. In this situation I used a minimal amount of land forces to deter them from attacking across the desert(a couple of citadels helped) and built a large navy. My nearest ocean neighbor was the Netherlands who made for awesome sea trade routes. I just had to really pay attention to my city state alliances to ensure I had enough resources.

 

[hr_oskar]

imho it's situational if I settle coastal cities under tradition, it's because I get a coastal map with lots of sea resources(usually your natural monopoly will be a sea resource) and you take God of the Sea pantheon belief it's tempting to build coastal cities and reap all the benefits from the sea. I did this in a recent game I was given a thin coastal strip backed by a huge desert that was mostly flat with little resources it helped that my neighbor across the desert was Morocco. In this situation I used a minimal amount of land forces to deter them from attacking across the desert(a couple of citadels helped) and built a large navy. My nearest ocean neighbor was the Netherlands who made for awesome sea trade routes. I just had to really pay attention to my city state alliances to ensure I had enough resources.

As you're saying here, I don't see how an all-coastal tradition empire with defensible land (mountain or desert border, or on an archipelago or single large island) can't just go all-navy instead of all-army. Coastal resources are potentially very high food, e.g. 8 food crabs with monopoly and lighthouse alone.

 

[Txurce]

As you're saying here, I don't see how an all-coastal tradition empire with defensible land (mountain or desert border, or on an archipelago or single large island) can't just go all-navy instead of all-army. Coastal resources are potentially very high food, e.g. 8 food crabs with monopoly and lighthouse alone.

Under the right circumstances, like the ones you describe, it absolutely can. I do it more often than not.

 

[CrazyG]

I'm going to break this down. From the start people were saying you don't mix land and sea. If you start on a fishing resource monopoly, of course you settle on the coast. I didn't expect anyone to think this wasn't obvious enough to go without saying.

You see your monopoly before you pick your social policies. So if you are sitting on a whale monopoly with a ton of coastal tiles, why are you considering tradition? I would take it as Arabia, but for anyone else I don't see the benefits. Progress works out really well. First of all, you are pursuing lighthouses. Tradition doesn't want to build lighthouses and harbours, progress does. Progress gives you early science so you can get techs like Fishing and Sailing faster.

What you should be reconsidering is taking tradition in this situation. Progress or authority tend to work out much better.

Tradition has much less gold and supply cap. On an archipelago you are extrmeley vulnerable to another civ just outnumbering you and slaughtering you at sea. If you do build and maintain a massive navy. You are creating an opportunity to lose the game by playing tradition on this set up.

 

[Owlbebach]

First of all, you are pursuing lighthouses. Tradition doesn't want to build lighthouses and harbours, progress does.

One thing that i never understand is why do you love Lighthouses so much? I mean they are cool, but they give you like 3 or 4 and at best scenario possible. And the problem that they belong to such a useless technology, it doesn't have anything else! Moreover you don't need that food so much cause you don't have happiness for that. Don't you think that going for Trade of Military Theory is just better?

You sure can rush Trade asap, but only for Navy, not for Lighthouses. Navy is incredibly strong if you get it fast. You can easily capture the capital with 4-6 ships and couple of Warriors and Archers, but this is not about Tradition for sure

 

[CrazyG]

One thing that i never understand is why do you love Lighthouses so much? I mean they are cool, but they give you like 3 or 4 and at best scenario possible. And the problem that they belong to such a useless technology, it doesn't have anything else! Moreover you don't need that food so much cause you don't have happiness for that. Don't you think that going for Trade of Military Theory is just better?

You sure can rush Trade asap, but only for Navy, not for Lighthouses. Navy is incredibly strong if you get it fast. You can easily capture the capital with 4-6 ships and couple of Warriors and Archers, but this is not about Tradition for sure

Lighthouses are alright, but if you want to rush them you take progress so you get rewards for building them and abuse the free city connections. Tradition wants to be going towards the center of the tech tree to try and build hanging gardens, or do arenas and watermills, or libraries and scriveners office. Sailing is a secondary priority, usually I don't research it until its a prerequisite for another technology that I want.

Or you rush dromons to start taking cities, which also plays much better for progress or authority.